MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.: Cheese it, boys, the jig is up

Saturday, January 14, 2006

Cheese it, boys, the jig is up

It looks like councilman Enochs has been doing some bad things, and I'm pretty sure that mayor Seyarto will find it hard not to gloat about it. I prefer to look at Enoch's legal troubles as a warning to all politicians who think that rule-bending comes as a perk when you take office. Ex-mayor vanHaaster had already discovered this unpleasant but relentless fact.

The lesson here to Enochs, and indeed to all of us, is that you must keep your nose squeaky clean or have an over-abundant bankroll if you want to be a successful criminal (you know, the ones who don't get caught.

142 Comments:

Now that "Weenie-Gate" is upon us
we can't help but wonder if Mr. Enochs will remove "The Mayor" from the front license plate. It is now plain to see that the oversized truck he drives matches his oversized ego. One does wonder how "Mr.Accountability" will now reconcile his public image with his personal actions.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:48:00 PM
Stay tuned, it won't be long before our left wingers like Ed and Nancy blame the Republican Party for the fall of Warnie.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 7:42:00 AM
7:42 - Were you one of the people involved in getting the police department and county officials mixed up in Murrieta's city politics? If so, are you already attempting to engage in damage control?

I agree with Faunce and everyone else who is interested in asking the state attorney general's office to look into this matter. (See related posts today on the Jeffries string).

No one is prejudging here. If Seyarto and vanHaaster and their confidants are clean, they will have nothing to worry about.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:10:00 AM
This is 10:10 once again. Please, everyone, don't let anyone try to turn this into a political party dispute. It is not. I myself happen to be one of many Republicans in Murrieta who has been greatly offended by people who try to hide Seyarto and van Haaster behind the party shield. This matter of misuse of the police and fire department for political purposes during the election was bad enough. If that influence has managed to spill over into the criminal justice system every citizen of every political party in this town needs only take the side of truth and justice, and be proud of doing so. This is not a matter of political parties, although it may be a matter of people abusing party labels.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:19:00 AM
I think all Murrietans should write to the Californian and complain about their editorial calling for WE to resign.

Here's the letter I emailed this morning.

____________________________
The Californian Editors have called for Murrieta City Councilman, Warnie Enochs, to resign. Although conceding that no other City official has made such a suggestion, the editors presume to speak for the good of Murrieta. The editors' reason ? They claim that Councilman Enochs will be too distracted to represent his constituency.

Right, but when Jack van Haaster published an open letter to Murrietans in the Californian, the same editorial board agreed that van Haaster used poor judgment, but there was no call for his resignation. And why not? Talk about distraction. The City went through a year-long convulsion to get rid of van Haaster through a recall.

Pardon me for noticing, but the Californian editorial board appears to be nothing more than another mouthpiece for the recall opposition. Oh you'd like to get rid of any council member who's not on the development team. But councilman Enochs says he's not guilty and until he's had his day in court, maybe the editors should say, as they did about van Haaster, that Enochs appears to have used bad judgment.

Meanwhile, stop trying to manipulate our City Council.
_________________________

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:47:00 AM
Here's the bottm line WARNE is DONE

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:04:00 AM
IF Warnie Enochs has committed crimes, he should be judged and punished.

IF anyone else has crossed the line of the law in investigating, politically influencing, or prosecuting Enochs, they should also be judged and punished.

Justice should and will cut both ways. That, for those who don't know or like it, is the American way.

Each and every one of the players in this legal and political situation is innocent until proven guilty. That includes Enochs, Seyarto, vanHaaster, and the people all up and down the line in our local law enforcement system.

It was an unfortunate day when our law enforcement authorities decided to lower themselves into the political arena. As a result, we all lose.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:16:00 AM
Kelly, every time I think you may be finally understanding why people speak to you as they do, you pull the rug right out from . . . .

You said: "Ed, your reasoning has gone beyond the realm of sanity. Comparing the non-criminal issue with Jack with a fourteen felony count arrest is absurd."

Excuse me, but Jack admitted that what he did was wrong. WE says he's innocent. Jack's wrong doing involved his public trust. WE's charges are essentially private matters.

And what you call "this blogging nonsense" - is a very real conversation going on in this City among Murrietans that would never otherwise have an opportunity to address each other.

And you don't get the point, no one is pilloring you over the republican party. The real problem lies with Dan Stephenson and his clones who are calling the shots all over this area, including pulling the strings on some republican officials.

But of course to you this blog has no "legitimacy," it's "nonsense" and "its stupid."

Pretty harsh critique given the amount of time you've spent posting here.

And by the way why do you insist on always linking Jeff and Ed? We are very different people and we do not take the same positions.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 4:35:00 PM
Deja vu. Before the recall, van H was saying bring it on, that he welcomed the chance to set the record straight. And Seyarto was saying he'd resign even if the recall just got enough signatures to force the recall election. Well, the people of Murrieta did bring it on, and van H was ousted. And surprise, surprise, but Seyarto failed to keep his word. Now his word is that there's nothing an Attorney General's inspection can find, and "bring it on". If history repeats itself, this town is in for another long rough ride. Thanks a lot, Seyarto. Thanks for nothing, law enforcement officials who get tangled up with political side taking. Will any of you ever learn? Or is it that you like watching this town go through misery as you play politics?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 4:41:00 PM
I think ALL Murrietian's should write to the Californian and COMPLIMENT them on calling for WE to resign.FINALLY somebody is willing to stand against the almighty Warnie.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:03:00 PM
Mr. Faunce, excuse me... yes Jack did admit he was wrong - Something WE will NEVER do! Another thing - his charges are a private matter! Come on! No public figure can expect privacy especially when he is charged with 14 felony counts. Not only that, if this his how he treats his family and friends what makes you think he would act any differently in the public arena. Anyone who knows him well knows not to cross him for his reputation for retaliation preceeds him. Personally I don't want to put my faith in someone who has no "private" (personal) ethics. You shouldn't either.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:23:00 PM
WE's charges are essentially private matters.

Extortion, threats of physical violence, forging documents and attempting to defraud your soon to be ex wife while you travel with your g/f on city business are "private matters'? If they are so "private" why are they codified into the penal code?

Sounds like when Clinton claimed that a blowjob wasn't sex - although, with WE, it's the citizens of Murrieta getting fucked.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:47:00 PM
Shouldn't WE's mugshot be up there instead of his official photo?

You can be damn sure if it was DM, KS, or JvH in cuffs, the mug shot would be posted and at twice the size of the portratit up there now.

Boy, RM's trio seems to be quite the bunch, huh?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 5:58:00 PM
Mr. Kunkle,
There are people of all ages reading this blog. The 5:47 entry does not deserve to be a part of this discussion.
I don't like a lot of what is said in this blog, but I respect the fact that almost everyone is using the opportunity to express their political opinions in a way that can be read even by youngsters. Let's keep it clean.
Thank you.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:00:00 PM
Dear Anonymous and the clinton refrence...
I agree- keep it clean, but you've said it better than anyone!

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:22:00 PM
6:22 - If you compliment that kind of language ("you've said it better than anyone"), then you are helping define the kind of people who share your point of view.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:28:00 PM
How many people can say they live in a town where the current mayor and two previous mayors and the police department are all involved at the same time in a dispute which involves suspicions of police political bias and a big mixture of charges of just about everything imagineable all the way from admitted political family favors for day care center permits to denied charges of threats to break a contractor's leg. Help, help, we're trapped in an unbelievable political soap opera.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 6:37:00 PM
5:47 it sounds more like everyone in the Republican party. Aren't they all indicted now?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:22:00 PM
I also think the opinion in the Californian is 100% correct; W.E. needs resign for the good of the city.

Anon 5:58, you are so correct, if K.S., for example, were caught in this situation most posters on this blog would be demanding resignation beyond have the mug shot posted. Now that the hero has taken a fall, conspiracy theories are to blame for Mr. Accountability’s troubles.

Last thing is, I agree, if J.L. Kunkle has administrative power to remove posts Anon 5:47 should be deleted.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 8:33:00 PM
That did not take long. It only took a few postings before the Republican Party was blamed for Warnie's troubles. The double standard of Ed "I-Will-Sue-You", and Nancy "The-Tabloid-Queen" are on full display for all to see. Something about throwing rocks in a glass house comes to mind right now.

By the way 5:47. That is uncalled for. Clean it up or pack it up. The double standards and cheap shots of the crazy leftwingers is bad enough. Your foul mouth makes them look civil.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:15:00 PM
If there is a RECALL election against Warnie Enochs, the supporters of Enochs should be able to depend on a police department endorsement. Why? Because at the end of the last election, when the police chief was pressed to explain why the police had endorsed the NO ON RECALL campaign, the chief explained that it is right and proper for the department to support incumbents on the council.
Soooo, I guess this is what we can expect: POLICE say NO ON RECALL of WARNIE ENOCHS.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 8:16:00 AM
The Recall of Warnie Enochs? Who said anyone was going to have to wait until November for the return of Jack van Haster? Fasten your seat belts everyone. The Jack Attack may have already begun!

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 12:19:00 PM
Dandy Dan, Loose Gun Kelly, and Jurassic Jack (the extinct mayor who came back to life)... Cast members who will be playing their own characters in the next drama at the Murrieta Playhouse: The Recall of Warnie Enochs. Show dates to be announced.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 1:19:00 PM
Murrieta T: The subject was bound to come up, and it's probably good that it came up right away. Let's face facts, Enochs is either going to resign or be recalled. And, he's probably not going to resign unless it's pointedly clear he's being recalled.
The sooner the better. The paperwork should get started. And it should be started by the same people who started it last year, because it is in their own interests.
If the recall is delayed to the point that it is scheduled to coincide with the general election, it will most likely guarantee the return of vanHaaster. There are a few reasons for this. For one it is not likely at all that vanHaaster would have winning support in a race that is focused on recall related issues. On the other hand, if Enochs remains an embarrassment to Murrieta for too long, vanHaaster is going to look better by comparison. So, it is either now, or it is vanHaaster.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 2:49:00 PM
Resignation or recall, either way, a special election is 99% certain. How long will we wait to see if he resigns? Another 99% certainty: He will not be resigning unless a recall movement is in progress. That's reality.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 3:55:00 PM
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players." - William Shakespeare

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 4:00:00 PM
355 was wrong and MT is right. But I disagree with 355 and MT.

He will not resign, and if we wait till a court decision, we have years of this humiliation to wallow through.

There is no reasonable alternative to a recall. Lets be realistic. No alternative at all.

Its about as easy as deciding to have a second necessary surgery within only months, but there is no reasonable choice, and the longer it is put off the worse it is for everyone.

The worst thing we could do right now is delay the inevitable. If you know anything about WE at all, it is that he does not care anything about anyone except himself. He will not resign.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 10:44:00 PM
Surprising in some ways the conversation going on here. Murrieta T is being way too optimistic and Anon 10:44 too pessimitic. "Years", highly unlikely. But "resign", probably more unlikely. A recall election would be the most prudent thing to do, but I don't know if people in town are ready for it.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 16, 2006 10:59:00 PM
MurrietaT, what are you going to recall him for, what crime is he charged with that involves the city? Innocent until proven guilty? What has he done that you are positively sure of? So what does your recall petition say? We think he's done something in his personal life but we don't know. What it should say, I guess, is Dan Stephenson and company want Enochs recalled so we can get our voting block back. This is all part of the Van Haaster agenda that I've been talking about since May.

I have stated he should resign, but there is no reason for a City recall when he didn't commit a crime against the city. If you are then looking for individuals that have broken the law, there is another Councilman on board that would be included in the recall. You can't have two standards here for people who have been arrested but not found guilty as charged. Enochs should step down and return later if he is innocent.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:39:00 AM
Guess what Jeff? You can recall someone for any reason you want. That's democracy, not some politically slanted, lawyer jammed, formality frozen courtroom. You can recall someone just because you find them morally offensive. And if you have any kind of moral values at all, Warnie Enochs is morally offensive. And so is Jack Van Haster for that matter, but he's already be dealt with. If you're OK with not recalling Enochs, you're not OK with me or with anyone who has a value system that has not been built on an agenda.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:57:00 AM
7:57 , You are right on target. The way it was put to me is that you can recall someone to put them out of office for the same reason you would usher them out of your home. I would not feel good having Enochs in my home. If he insisted on staying, I would for sure see to it that he leave quickly with my assistance. If a person would not be welcome in my home I also would not want them on my city council.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 8:58:00 AM
To All, yes a recall can be for any reason. But talk about deja vu. After the recall was begun on the Trio, there were numerous letters to the local press, columnists and even editorials claiming that the recall was a waste of money, time and effort because we did not have sufficient grounds. The Californian claimed that the recall process was reserved for serious public offenses.

As the spokesman for RM, I spent a great deal of time and effort writing about the fact that a recall can simply be based on the fact that we no longer want a particular person in office.

Nevertheless, a recall is very hard work and it does take a fair amount of time. Here's why:

1. There must be an organized effort, so the first order of business is to form an organization.
2. The organization will be backing a ballot measure and therefore needs to comply with the FPPC and Calif Election Code rules.
3. The organization needs to establish a bank account and must have a regularly established means for tracking donations and expenditures both in cash and certain non-cash donations.
4. The recall petition notice must be drafted and then published with the requisite number of qualified signators. Every "i" must be dotted, or the publication will be voided. (RM had to publish three times before we received the approval from the City Clerk and City Attorney)
5. After the the recall petition notice has been published then the recall petition must be prepared. That form also requires prior City Clerk and Attorney approval.
6. Once those approvals have been received, all petition circulators and signature gathers must be taught the rules concerning circulation.
7. An organization to collect the signed petitions and to follow up on signatures which appear grossly incorrect should be done.
8. Non-registered voters desiring to sign the petition must be ferreted out and the circulators be taught the rules for registering unregistered voters. Which includes, by the way, a small limited time for filing the registrations with the County Registrar.
9. Even if the sufficient signatures are validated by the City Clerk and the County Registrar, the scheduling of the recall election is left to a proper application of the Election Code rules and, to a certain amount, the discretion of the City Council.

This is the barest outline of requirements. Running a recall election campaign takes a very large number of people who are dedicated and willing to spend hundreds, maybe thousands, of volunteer hours.

I thought any recall discussion should factor in what we learned in the last recall effort.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:11:00 AM
Ed Faunce, Thank you for your well informed input. I am a person who would probably sign an Enochs Recall petition if it were handed to me. But as bad as the jerk may be, I have not yet seen any evidence of the kind of very deep resentment in the public that was created by Seyarto and van Haaster. Warnie Enochs is, it appears, a bad, bad man. I can see where his wife and some other people around his personal life might hate him. Then you look at Seyarto and van Haaster, who are liked by the people in their personal lives, but who bring out real nasty emotions in the public. Maybe they should all be kept where they're liked. Seyarto and van Haaster should stay home or at the Chamber, and Enochs can continue to play his public role. Why not? After all, if part of the reason Enoch's is being prosecuted so hard is political, that alone should be enough to let him stay in office. If that's the case, it means Seyarto and van Haaster are part (the political part) of the reason Enochs stays in power. Why? Because if Enoch's case is thrown out or reduced to misdemenors because of the fact that the cops turned political, it all looks like it goes back to van Haaster and Seyarto. It might be fun to contemplate the irony of all this if we didn't have to live with the mess it has created.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:34:00 AM
Ed, you stated all the legal reasons, but you also have to sell it to the people who just don't care. You have to show them where it's hurting them or their pocket book. Selling the fact that a Councilmen "may have" committed some felonies but isn't convicted may be a hard sell.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:47:00 AM
To Murrieta T, the time line can vary depending on how fast certain things get done. But, for comparison, RM's beginnings were around June 4, 2004, the 8,000+ signatures on each of the three targeted council members were turned into the City in early November. They were actually turned in before the 6 months for signature gathering expired.

The City Council then, after receiving the County Registrar's OK, had to set an election which, if I remember correctly was some time in March, 2005. So the entire process took nearly 10 months.

To Jeff, the difficulty in getting people to sign will be multi-factorial. Not the least of which is that the voters are election weary.

One last point, the City is already beginning to focus on the regular election this coming November. It's going to be difficult to find volunteers to work on a recall campaign when those same people will be the volunteers needed to work on the regular election process.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:07:00 PM
Oh, I misunderstood, -- no, I do not practice in the criminal law area so I have absolutely no idea what WE's time line might be. Sorry.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:20:00 PM
WE should do the right thing tonight at the CC meeting and resign.

I'd also have a lot more respect for EF and RM all together if they stop'd covering for this reject from Mayberry RFD. He's a joke, and now, he's been accused of some serious charges. And no, they are not private matters and they do speak to his character, both private and forward facing.

Mr. Kunkle, I think it's only right that WE's mugshot run next to his official portrait, unless of course you *wish* this blog to take a position. His official portrait screams WE action's are just fine with you.

But you wouldn't want to make EF mad, now would ya?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 1:25:00 PM
In spite of the fact that the city was going through the very rough waters of its early years, there was very little real bitterness in this town's city council until Kelly Seyarto came along. That man managed to stir up more bad emotions just by the negative force of his personality than all of those who had gone before him. And I mean all of them put together. Its not because his ideas were so controversial. Its just that he is a natural born generator of anger and resentment. If Warnie Enochs resigns it will be a good day for Murrieta. If Enochs and Seyarto both resign, it would be good in historic proportions. The unfortunate fact is that neither one of them would ever put the good of their constituents ahead of their own egos. We are stuck with them both.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:18:00 PM
To Anon 1:25, I think you need to back it down a tad.

First, do you, or do you not, support our Constitutional principal that one is PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty? WE says he's innocent. None of us are judge and jury and we don't have all the facts.

Second, your reference to EF and RM are entirely inappropriate. RM has had no membership meeting taking a position one way or the other on WE. Consequently, EF cannot speak on behalf of RM.

Third, your snide comment about making EF mad impunges the integrity of Mr. Joe Kunkle who has funded and moderated this Blog out of his own resources.

If you want to call the shots -- then get your own blog.

You made your point that you are not a WE supporter and you don't seem to care about the presumption of innocence.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 2:42:00 PM
Well, let's look at the facts, EF?

WE and DO are, in anyone eyes, RM supporters.One cannot reasonably say they are not. Now that one of them is in the heat, you don't seem to want him at your table. Fine, I can understand that. RM should do the right thing and denounce him and cut ties, as you would DEMAND if this was JvH, DM or KS and the Chambers/Developers had the nerve to call him innocent until proven guilty. And for the sake of the city and it's image (what image we have left after the Recall and this mess), WE should step down. Presumption of innocence is a concept of the courts, not of the public. I think WE's guilty as sin. I have the right to do so.

Also, as a Murrieta resident I want him to step down. He can run again in the next election after he's cleared his name. I don't want anyone on the dais that is facing criminal charges that call in to question his character.

Certainly, it's Kunkle's blog and he can do with it what we wishes. My comments about any bias tilt (if it exists) was commentary, much like EVERY OTHER post up here. At this time, I think this blog is open to all, is it not? Or is it truly a RM bias'd blog, with dissenters only tolerated till they hit a nerve?

Snide? Hmm, well I made EF mad and he wants me to leave. Point made.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 4:54:00 PM
4:54, I don't think Ed's mad, he just doesn't want to be connected to RM anymore, the recall is over since, what, April? He is on his own making comments, not as a group and he speaks for himself.

I totally agree with you WE needs to step down, but we have to be very careful here if and when he does. You have a bully and his henchman to overcome. I don't know how strong Gibbs is and if KS has a candidate you know it will be a duplicate of McAlister. It may be VanHaaster. We need to be careful in how fast this goes. Enochs should step down but we need to supply Gibbs with a suitable candidate to promote.

And no, I'm not for a second recall. Had Enochs been arrested for anything to do with the City I'd be the first one with a clipboard writing down names, but he didn't. It does show his character, but I need some real proof. One guy says he threatened him, but thats he said, she said....wont hold up. Lots of questions here about the contractor who's employee was running around with Enochs wife, whats that about? Could the contractor be defending his employee....does anyone know? The boat ticket, could the wife have signed it and set him up.....does anyone know? I mean we have so many facts here that are from the one side, and nothing will come from Enochs until a trial starts. Again, this is a messy divorce case, maybe fraud, maybe not. Forging a policemens signature is really the one that gets to me most as it would show an abuse of power.

So lets ask him to step down and see where that goes.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:12:00 PM
Jeff Excellent thoughts. Your posts are showing an ever increasing amount of good logic and even handedness. The more of that there is in here and throughout the community, the better it will be for the year ahead in Murrieta. I'm afraid we're heading straight into a political firestorm, and emotions are going to get out of control. Cool heads will ultimately win the day.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:45:00 PM
Anon 4:54, you seem to have difficulty understanding that RM is not a functioning organization at the moment. How does RM denounce a council man, or support one for that matter, when there is no organizational structure presently in place to canvass RM members?

RM was not created as a non-profit organization with a perpetual life. It has no corporate structure at all.

RM was organized as a ballot measure Political Action Committee. As such, it took on the responsiblity to assist the three recall committees. Yes, there were three separate recall committees one for each of the targeted council members.

RM acted in support of those recall committees because it supported the ballot measures asking whether the three should be recalled.

RM also assisted the three individual election committees, yes Gibbs, and the other two candidates had there own election committees also, because RM voted to support their cause.

But to ask why RM doesn't denounce WE is to naively assume that RM has an ongoing corporate type existence.

Oh, and by the way, I did refer to your comment, about Mr. Joe Kunkle not wanting to make EF mad, as snide. I also indicated that your comment was disrespectful to Mr. Kunkle. And no, I did not ask you to leave the blog. Only Mr. Kunkle could do that.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 6:27:00 PM
Yes, WE apologized to the community for his divorce reaching the level it has. He said that he will continue to work on behalf of the City. He said his attorney restricted him from discussing the matter. Finally, he said that he expects to be vindicated - or words to that effect.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, January 17, 2006 10:01:00 PM
Tell the truth now. If it was DM or KS in the exact same position as WE.... wouldnt you all be screaming for his removal?

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:38:00 PM
12:38 Im not Faunce, but your question deserves an answer.
Very deep question indeed. Requires 1/2 second of thought before answering. Okay, here we go: In the case of KS, since his departure would already be good for the city based on his approval-by-default-for-mass-housing-developers stance, yes. In the case of Dougie, no. There. Hows that???

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:33:00 PM
1:33 cracks me up.

I guess it's ok to convict DM or KS without a trial of being bad for the city, but speak it about RM shill WE and man, the protesting begins.

I'm disappointed to see WE did not have the spine to resign last night.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:05:00 PM
KS will get voted out in a few short months anyhow, why worry about him now. As you know WE is in place for a long time, how does that make you feel 3:05? And what's more there is nothing you can do about it.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:18:00 PM
Warnie's mug shot and his official photo just have one little difference. In the mug shot, he reminds me of a sad toad. The other one, a happy toad. I don't know why I'm saying this. Just an observation.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:29:00 PM
Can't you just see the sides forming here? WE is a shill for Rescue Murrieta folks. He has no spine if he doesn't resign. Guess who the people saying these things are? The pro-Seyarto/VanHaaster group, or our pro-development community. I guess these sides were already there and are in place for November's fight.

3:05 saying that WE has no spine is way off. It takes more backbone, innocent or guilty to stand up in front of the City every couple of weeks then it would be to resign and in a month or two the story would just go away. It's more spineless to hide in your house with the curtains drawn. We will see where this all goes, but maybe just maybe, WE sees what could happen to this city if he gives Seyarto the chance to bring in a third member to form that developers voting block of three again? So maybe he is sacrificing his ego, and much embarrassement to protect all of us? Think about it. What else would he get, $600?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 3:44:00 PM
Jeff, you are so off base it isn't even funny. WE is an egomaniac. He cares only for himself. And if you recall he did hide in his house for a week with the curtains drawn.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:05:00 PM
Ribbit. Ribbit.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:17:00 PM
Anon 3:18,

Why do you think K.S. is getting voted out in a couple of months? He survived a recall, and if it had been a general election there wasn’t a close second.

Jeff,

It’s not backbone, it’s ego, and once you have that power some people don’t want to let go. Beside weren’t you just calling for his resignation recently?

Anon 12:38,

So true, so true, I guess when someone supports your views it’s okay to look the other way.

W.E. needs to resign now if he really cares about the city.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:50:00 PM
I did call for him to resign. I also think it takes backbone to remain.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:14:00 PM
Jeff, WE has the backbone of a jellyfish. You give him too much credit for being noble. He would rather drive off a cliff than admit he is wrong. His ego is so fragile that he can't resign. He could not exist if he is not in a position of power.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:33:00 PM
Ya know, WarnieE truly cares about Murrieta, afterall this is his hometown. He has lived and worked here for many many years and I'm pretty sure has been apart of this town longer than anyone of you people claiming to be a true Murrietian. (As far as I 'm concerned all of you are the cancer that has ruined this place..city-idiots )
Anyway...As I was saying...He has worked hard to get what he has. Politics didn't give him anything. He was a business owner and worked for it.As for politics..He started out by actually caring whats happening to our town as it became a city and wanted to have a voice in her future for the better of Murrieta itself.Not to play monopoly or power gain or any of that crap you all are talking about on this blog.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 6:54:00 PM
Ed, why are you NOT supporting Gibbs re-election?

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 9:18:00 PM
6:54 PLease! Who cares how many years he has lived here. Obviously it's too many. If he cared about Murrieta he would resign, but he won't, he can't, who would he be without his illusion of power? City-Idiots would be better defined as people who are STILL buying WE's sad song. As far as many are concered WE is the cancer that has ruined Murrieta.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:21:00 PM
654, What has WE gotton from City politics... A POWER TRIP and it's been a heck of a ride... He learned to abuse his power, he uses his position to push people around, used the police to do his dirty work, used a false police badge to sign-off his ticket, seems like his political career benefited HIM greatly. As for the rest of Murrieta- We've got a councilmember who won't quit and is making us all look like idiots for putting him in there in the first place. At least his address will be changing soon to WE c/o STATE PRISON.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 18, 2006 10:44:00 PM
Rholmgren. The crimes differ both in degree and in victims. Enochs were primarily against individuals. VanHasters were primarily against the city. The justice system will deal with Enochs on behalf of the individuals. The voters have already dealt with VanHaster on behalf of themselves. All is as it should be.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:20:00 AM
Ribbit. Ribbit.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:58:00 AM
January 18, 2006 6:54:18 PM should go down as the introduction of WE to the blog.

Welcome WE, best of luck with your arraingment :)

And if it's not WE, then it's DEFINATELY orginating from RM Central, the Colony. God knows, there's nothing good a few angry seniors with time on their hands can't ruin.

WE should resign. I wonder if there were enough signatures on a petition, if he'd do the right thing and listen, or if his massive ego would keep him believing he should stay since he's soo oo good for the city. As if without WE, Murrieta would just crush itself under it's own weight.

Get over yourself WE - resign and deal with your personal and legal problems and then, if your vindicated, come back triumphant.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:08:00 AM
9:58... Toads do not "ribbit". They "croak". But maybe a toad - trying to pretend things are not as they really are - would "ribbit". Carry on.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:08:00 AM
I have stated that in my opinion for the best of the community, WE should step down. But the only reason that I think he would need to step down is his manipulation of using a non-existent police officer to fix a ticket, would be something that involved his connection to the City of Murrieta. If we are judging him on his arrest for forging documents to cheat his wife in a divorce settlement, I don’t know where that fits in if we can easily allow for Doug McAlister to have illegal family issues and remain. We can allow Kelly Seyarto to intentionally mislead us when Jack VanHaaster committed a violation in trust directly against the city for his own profit. If we are to hold WE for being arrested and not proven guilty concerning a monetary entanglement, why would we not be throwing up our arms in disgust at a Councilmen that abandoned his children? Which do the recent posters consider more of a violation of the common trust??? A child concern or a concern over a divorce settlement?

Why are the recent posters so conserned with having WE immediately step down? Would it be because the chances of installing a new Councilmen, that again would create the power of the three developer voting block? So now I go back and ask these anons, although it could easily be the same person posting over and over again as they don’t establish who they are. It also could be anyone one of the other City employees, Councilmen, Managers or a well known Chamber of Commerce member or two, couldn’t it? Why else have this rush to eliminate an opponent? Why not sit back and wait a while. This will all unfold and the truth will come out. The only reason to rush would be to get a new Councilmen in place that favors a certain two developer’s bullies. Most of the comments from people like Roy, who has flip-flopped his position to follow the anti-WE crowd is that WE is worthless anyways. So what’s a few more months of WE doing nothing? But that’s not what it’s about for the Seyarto team. They want WE out so they can force their agenda on our City. Lets trend slowly here and not shoot ourselves in the foot.

Now if Republicans who outnumber any agenda on this blog were so intense about demanding arrested politicians to resign, where is your national call for glory, as I would think you have a lot of explaining to do? But, then again, that would be shooting YOUR agenda in the foot now wouldn’t it???
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:41:00 AM
Oh, i get it...

Whe someone wants a RM shill like WE out, we're told why don't we just wait and see how it plays out, what's a few months.

But when RM wanted the "trio" cut up, they could smell the blood in the water and were drowing in their own saliva at the thought of an earliest possible recall date.

Now that the "trio" is an RM cartel, we should just wait. Riigggghhhhtttttt....

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:05:00 AM
Jeff, As an anon posting person I just want to mention that no, not all anons are the same person. At least, I can say that in my case. But, the real point is that an anon's post is in my humble estimation something that has to be evaluated on its own merits just for the logic of what it says. It is the hardest of all posts to make convincing. Thats because there is no identified person whose reputation can back up the anon statements. We all know the context you and Rholmgren and others who ID themselves are writing in, but an anon has to immediately establish credibility by words alone, or that anon is just whistling Dixie. Does that make sense? If so, it makes my point.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:07:00 AM
WE's x wife was/is a money hungry b..... she cleared out his bank account prior to the seperation and i know that if confronted with the same situation you all can't say that you wouldn't do the same to protect what you have left from the x taking it all.women are the devil in a divorce. come on..think about it. how did it hurt any of you? the only bad mouthing and actually hurting of murrieta is done on this blog. pthtthtttt

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:30:00 AM
11:05, I am not part of RM but listened to the reasoning and voted to recall all three. I did so for a reason that mattered because of what I felt they were doing and still in some ways are doing today to my City. What you are blasting WE for has only to do with the City as far as the alledged ticket fixing incident. Not his divorce scandal.
But let's see how far you get with a new recall. Go for it. But you won't, all you have is to shoot off whatever it is youre selling.

I am all for anons. Its just very hard to tell if it's the majority or one. We all have agendas and your right, you have to see the logic.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 11:31:00 AM
I don't know if this will seem off subject, but the frog and toad sound thing was bugging me. Not having much time for this, I tried very quickly to find a definition of "ribbit", but my usual sources of information were useless. I did find this on an obscure web page:
Does it live in a house? Ribbit, Ribbit
And eat lots of flies? Ribbit, Ribbit
If it does then it is, Ribbit, Ribbit
A big green house frog. Ribbit, Ribbit
Does it camouflage itself? Croak, Croak
So you really can't see it? Croak, Croak
If it does then it is, Croak, Croak
A little brown tree toad. Croak, Croak

Does anyone find this helpful?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 4:13:00 PM
11:30 You are soooo WRONG!! Check out the paperwork. WE is the one that withdrew the money, not his x..It was just another one of his lies. WE can't speak without a lie coming out. Unfortunatly this was the least of the things he did to his family. He started with taking the money, blaming it on her.. THat wasn't good enough so he continued with more lies and phoney liens etc...If you haven't noticed if someone gets in his way or doesn't do what he wants he goes after them, whether threatening to "break their legs", or berating them as he has done to members of the city staff. Get a clue.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:25:00 PM
4:13 Thank you. I never voted for WE, but if I had, I'd probably be feeling like I had kissed a toad. Did anyone ever think WE was really going to turn into something better than he first appeared to be? As far as I can remember, he never did do anything except be a pain in the rear of Mr. Seyarto and Mr. vanHaaster. Maybe that was an accomplishment, but I don't think so. Or am I missing something here? Did WE ever do anything? I'm serious. Anything at all?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 6:56:00 PM
11:30 You must either be one of WE clueless supporters or one of the tramps he runs around with... Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Anyone who has ever met Mrs. Enochs (his x-wife) would know what an outstanding woman she is. She has the higest of morals and values that is rare in a person these days. That is why WE attacked her character with such force. She held that marriage together for those 17 years and tried to work through all the infidelity WE did. It's people like YOU that don't check your facts before you shoot off your half baked comments. Crawl back to the hole you came from...

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:57:00 PM
gottorun,

W.E. is not up for re-election in November, he still has more than 3 years in office. I don't think anyone is going to start a recall, but if someone did I think it could get on the November ballot without a special election.

I also think his support has eroded drastically lately.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:09:00 PM
9:09 - His term is up in 2008, so that is less than 3 yrs, but I doubt we will have to wait THAT long for a decision from the courts. If he is charged with ANY felony he is out. We won't have to wait for sentencing, appeals, etc.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:17:00 PM
Ribbit. Gimme a kiss. I'll turn into a prince. I promise! Trust me. Ribbit. And I'll sing for you, too! Does anyone know the lyrics to the Bonanza tune?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 9:28:00 PM
If this is the side of the development backers like Rholmgren, with the calling of names and making light of our great city, then the Kelly Seyarto and Doug McAlister bunch are not for us. I continue to watch people like Rholmgren attack this man without proof of guilt. If he is guilty he will not stay, but I guess they don't believe in due process. They want to take whatever is there for the taking. Just like they have over built our communities for no reason. Leaving us without the infrastructure to support it. Rholmgren is a piece of work, he sides with power that is destroying our city, only to hurt all of us in the long run. He must be one of those guys who drive the big oversize pickups too for lack of size in other areas. Thats the capabilities of men who need to control city government. They are the same ones who list all their accomplishments on their profiles as if they are better then all of us. When all we as a community want is someone who will be fair and put the taxpayers first. Where does it talk about that Mr. Seyarto and McAlister. All your profiles do is show us you are savy politicians. We want savy homeowners to govern us, not politicians.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:58:00 PM
10:58 - Superb comments. But you may not like mine at all: I suggest, as others have suggested, that Warnie Enochs be recalled for the good of our city, and that the recall be scheduled to coincide with the general election to keep costs down. But here is my own addition to this idea. We should also recall Seyarto in the same way, and for the same reason. They are both divisive in ways that put them off the charts, and both personalities are very destructive to the mood and general well being of our city. We may disagree with other council members for various reasons, but none of them create the sickness of vile bitterness in the guts of the community like Enochs and Seyarto. Let's be done with these two horrible blights on the mood of our city. They are both like a disease, and there is a cure. Recall Enochs and Seyarto. And to those who say this was already tried with Seyarto, my answer is that the failure of that recall was one mistake, and failing to try again would make it two mistakes. It is time to succeed. Time for Murrieta to succeed. Out with Enochs and Seyarto. Oh, wait! Seyarto is up for re-election anyway, so why mess with recall? Just because it would put things in the right perspective. He does not deserve to treated like a respectable candidate, any more than does Enochs.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 7:08:00 AM
708 Its a stupid idea to recall Mayor Seyarto at the same time he would be up for re-election. I would sign up for the double recall idea but only if the recall was before november. I know people would bitch about the election cost but take up a collection and Ill pitch in a few bucks. Get it over with.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 7:57:00 AM
Some of you bloggers need to drink your coffee before you write. Enochs can be recalled easily, but how many signatures are you going to get to recall Seyarto after he just survived a recall? Granted, the developers probably would not want to give 600 thou to save him a second time, but my feeling is that the voters are not going to want to sign recall petitions.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 8:07:00 AM
Make the healing complete. Enochs and Seyarto both resign, please. If not, a dual recall is called for. If either of these people remain in office, a festering boil remains. Both men cause disruption and hatred. It is not their policies, it is their disfunctional public personalities, causing discord and ill will everywhere. They are both bad for Murrieta.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 9:03:00 AM
Ha Ha... Double Recall!! Give me a break! I'd like to see you try. Sure, jump on your little computer and dictate what "should" be done.... As if you would ever get off your computer butts and do it.
Even if you watched Richard Simmons long enough to try to get off your computer butts and walk the neighborhoods, it aint gonna fly. I doubt you could find 200 people who want to go through another recall.
Do divisive, too expensive.
Try being part of the solution instead of always trying to complain, divide and harm.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 10:41:00 AM
10:41 You seem like a lovely person. If they make a deodorant for personalities, perhaps you should give that a try. Just a friendly suggestion. By the way, are you Kelly Seyarto, or are you one of his dependants (i.e.: family, developer, etc.)

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 11:47:00 AM
Jeeze 1041, I think 903 hit a major nerve with you. Are you actually that afraid of a recall petition even starting for KS? I guess it would be humiliating to KS to have to rely on Horton and the others to come to his rescue again. KS is high maintenance. Is that what made you jump so high over that little blog?

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 12:01:00 PM
First off there is no one out there with the desire needed to organize any recall. Second, Enochs could have murdered someone and there still is more dislike for Seyarto so there will be no healing until both are gone. Roy, you continue to change your tune, the first day you want justice first and then when some of VanHaaster parisites start chiming in, you want Enochs drawn and quartered. Get over it, he's not going anywhere until some of the truths come out. The first cancer to go will be Seyarto. Enochs time will draw near soon enough, his trial could start as soon as the Fall. Either way, no one on this blog, except for Ed has the gumption to get out on the street and start a recall. So if you all really want to move forward, it would be to identify some REAL candidates to replace Seyarto and Ostling and Enochs if that time comes. Thats the only way our City will go anywhere.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 1:05:00 PM
Jeff,
You are 100% correct about the "no one out there" bit. But that is only for now. Give it some time. There is nothing, nothing, nothing that could possibly be more appropriate in this town's politics than for Kelly Seyarto and Warnie Enochs to be named on the same recall petition. That all by itself would make a statement that needs and deserves to be made.
This town deserves better than either of them, and almost anyone would be better. Even Dan Stephenson would be better. At least he's his own person, not financially promiscuous enough to want donations from every fat sloth of a developer that wants to get his hot little hands on our town.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 1:27:00 PM
You people talk like this stuff on Warnie is new - how conveniently you all forget that it all started coming out before his last election but all the warnitos just cried 'dirty politics' and voted for him anyway. Most probably would again since Warnie doesn't have the brightest constituency in the world. The DA has been working with some of this info for more than 2 years to return these indictments. For you conspiracy theorists who claim the police department spearheaded this in reposnse to the recall, sorry - it was in the works long before the recall ever came about.
Evident of the caliber of concerned citizen in this blog is the one wanting to recall both WE & KS. Thanks Einstein - but KS is already up for reelection this fall. Try to engane some brain cells before putting your mouth in gear. The problem is that some of you actually read Jeff's rants. Have any of you actually met Jeff? Jeff can't put 3 coherent words together in a sentence, he spits, he sputters, he shouts accusations and then runs away before you can answer - he's a scary individual in person. But on this blog Jeff's word is gospel to some of you.
I suspect this next election will be even uglier than the recall and it will definitely be a battle for the soul of Murrieta. At this point the ONLY council member worth a vote is Rick Gibbs. Start doing your homework now and, for the love of God and our fine city, please expand your learning to more than this one-sided blog.
The Cheese

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 2:45:00 PM
This stuff cracks me up.

Enochs in trouble.

RM try's to distance themselves from the shill by saying nasty things about KS, DM and again, JvH.

RM's old coots decide to spin WE's ILLEGAL activities into a vote of no cofidence/recall for both WE and KS, since we all now that (a) WE is going down and (b) anything RM can do, and anyone RM can sink to get to KS is fine with them.

KS is up for re-election in Novemeber. To want to recall someone who might be out of his seat by a popular vote in, what, six months or so time, is almost as stupid a financial decision as when WE did not support buying the French Valley property which now will cost us milllions more.

Unfreakinbelivable. Truly. I think the new RM chant should be quite simpe to write.

Divert. Divert. And when all else fails, Divert.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 3:02:00 PM
Wow, how scary can I be? Gospel...only one book states that. Shouts accusations? Coherent words together....well that just proved you wrong. Runs away from what answers. Talk respectful and I answer back, talk like an idiot and I have no need to answer you. All I have is my thoughts and feelings and my opinion. Just like you Mr. Cheese, we all have one. So I don't see any difference in what you just wrote. I totally agree Gibbs is the only one that is worth anything, so wheres your argument. Are you the "soul" of Murrieta? I think your only problem with me is I challenge your Republican ideals.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 3:35:00 PM
Yeah aint that a crackup? Jeff keeps talking about the difference in 'crimes', Van Haaster's was against the city, Enochs is just personal. Horseapples. First of all with JVH there was not crime. He was never indicted, never arrested, in fact even RM could only come up with the most general brush strokes to color him. Oooooh, he talked to planning commissioners about his daughters project. Oooooh. Sorry, no crime, no brown act violation, just RM smoke. Enochs on nthe other hand, has been indicated on 14 counts and arrested. After 2+ years of investigation, I suspect the DA has more than a hunch to work from, don't you? You're right. If it was KS or DM who had his mug shot in the paper, RM would be hanging them in effigy if they couldn't get the real thing. It should be an eye opener for everybody here to see who the truly self-serving are.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 4:01:00 PM
Funny Jeff, you sound just like your antithesis Seyarto - talk respectful and I answer back, talk like an idiot and I have no need to answer you. Kelly's been saying that on the dias for years and to you personally in this blog for months. Hmmm, maybe you're finally starting to see the light.
Nawwwwww. Wishful thinking.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 4:06:00 PM
No, Kelly is paid to listen to the crap dished out on here. I am not. Thats the difference. I am just a resident. One is a public servant paid to answer....the other is just a guy.

There is a huge difference in someone who has tried to take advantage of the city to profit and one that was arrested for trying to deceive his wife. Wow you just hate RM don't you? Kind of sucks when they pulled off the nearly impossible? Kind of hurts inside when you didn't win huh?
And JVH admitted he did wrong. WE said he didnt. LOL. Sucks doesnt JVH?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 4:33:00 PM
Jeff, 4:33 If you think all WE did is to try and deceive his wife then the people reading the papers to you are leaving out some important information you ought to know. How about WE signing a non-existanet police officers name to a ticket. Go back to school and learn to read for yourself or do us all a favor and move to another blog site.

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 5:22:00 PM
5:22 Go read my post from 1/19, 10:41 bright boy.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 6:53:00 PM
I have a sincere question for ALL of you and would appreaciate your opinions... on the subject of old town ... what you all think is worth saving down there as a historical intrest? Are you all planning on getting off your butts and raising the cash needed for the park on b street? the area needs something, don't you think?

By Anonymous, at Friday, January 20, 2006 9:24:00 PM
With the exception of the rholmgren entry, all the pro seyarto stuff above came in a fitful series of posts that sounded like variations on the vintage seyarto style. The cheezy entry no exception. It is interesting to note that the proposal to include seyarto on the recall did address the fact that seyarto is up for reelection in november, and provided better rational for pursuing a recall of seyarto in spite of that fact than anyone could successfully counter. So, they (he, seyarto) ignored the fact. On another string in this blog, the supposedly independent investigation and the length of it by authorities outside of murrieta was addressed very well, but thanks for the attempt to ignore that fact to all of you who are now making that attempt (seyarto). And the diversion of this topic to a park is sweet, and thanks for that, but no thanks.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 9:26:00 AM
9:26,If not Seyarto, one of his financial supports, C of C members, City Manager or any of the people who make money off developers. They all profit off of Seyarto being on the Council. They all know that Enochs is a block to the clean sweep vote they have had in the past. Look who the posters attack? Jeff, Kelly's favorite whipping boy as he has called things pretty much as they are. Who else has Kelly threatened?

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:21:00 AM
Haven't we all had enough of the finger pointing, backbiting and conspiracy theories? I know I have! It has gone on long enough and these petty differences that separate us must stop. Big Brother is not at work in Murrieta, just personal petty differences and divisiveness.

As far as Warnie is concerned, I see it as a matter of Hypocrisy and Serious Character flaws and he should not remain in office.

Hypocrisy from the standpoint that last year as the Recall qualified and was submitted, he demanded the RESIGNATIONS of JVH, KS and DM. Based on what? Qualifying Signatures? He was not willing to let the process run its course then. Now that he has been charged by the County District Attorney as a result of an investigation that has be ongoing for over 2 years, he will not do what he demanded of others a year ago. Webster’s Dictionary defines Hypocrisy – Noun: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own moral behavior does not conform: Pretense.

Contrary to popular belief by the media today Character does matter. You cannot separate your personal life from your business and public life. If you lie, cheat and cut corners etc… in one part of your life, do you really think that that person is going to be as pure as the driven snow in another part of their life? Character Counts! If some is going to put their family and their well being at risk, are they really going to care about the general public? I don’t think so…

We all need to be concerned about our communities’ image outside the valley and across the state. As a result of a very bitter Recall and now Warnie's 14 Felony Charges, Murrieta is becoming damaged. We need to get our act together, Warnie you need to step down and save us the embarrassment of trying to excuse your behavior in your personal life.

It is time to move past our differences and work together.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 11:58:00 AM
Murrieta T,
Perfectly said. No one is going to recall Seyarto and for that matter no one is going to recall Enochs. It would take at least 6 months and thousands of dollars and when the 10 months came to a conclusion, Seyarto will have been voted out and Enochs will be very close to trial and will either be automatically forced out or will be vindicated. Neither will resign. Again, as I pointed out before, what is crucial here in our City, is to find GOOD, HONEST, TRUSTWORTHY people to represent us. It's time to clean house. We have seen the venom that a recall couldnt rid us of.

We have endured a city building so fast that the infrastructure lags months and years behind. Some say no to slow growth. I ask why not? What resident would be hurt if we slowed growth a little. Those empty spaces will fill up? Why do we have to do all in a day? The only ones that are hurt be slowing growth are developers.

People get on here and say we need jobs that pay here in Murrieta. What rational is filling our city with office buildings and/or medical buildings. What jobs are created? Administrative positions. The companies moving into these buildings are usually companies that need more room, not really creating jobs just moving them. What we need are medium to large companies to move here, with technical positions. We lost 250 jobs this last year with Boston Scientific closing in French Valley. 70 engineering and technical positions transferred to Ireland. This is what we should be focussed on, not the small retail and offices that create jobs for the kids and young people. If you want homeowners staying and working in town, you bring the jobs that can pay the 600K mortgages. Im NOT saying we shouldnt create any of the lower paying jobs, but focus harder on getting the higher paying ones.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:06:00 PM
11:58, it is easy to see what you want to do. Get Enochs off the Council and shut everyone else up concerning Seyarto and McAlister. Thats the main goal of the VanHaaster agenda to return. Even with Enochs gone, there is a major charater flaw in Seyarto. He has to go to in the upcoming election. So your description of character flaws fits Seyarto to a tee. He has done unethical things. He also has done his best to steam roll us with development to the point of leaving us lacking in basic infrastructure.

Again, 11:58 is another example of the development backers, be it one person or several trying to shut down the voices trying to change the old blood. They see no problems with high density, no problems with traffic problems and no problems with over crowded schools. Why because the monies flow into their pockets. They are enriched whether the are in real estate or are builders or are the middle men politicians. Just look above our community and see how in our Federal government lobbyists have finally been caught, feeding money into the politicians for votes. But maybe many of you can't see this big picture because it is a specific ideology involved. Maybe you just aren't using reasoning and logic on the Federal issues to see it happening also on the local level. Well, we will be the ones burned in the end. Hogh density, eating up commercial areas will leave us short of tax revenues. So those who call what is apparent here in this City a conspiracy. It is funny, how you want to label the truth as conspiracy or theories.

We rid this community of a thief and we will rid it of the rest of the status quo in November.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:28:00 PM
Okay, let’s call it intellectual honesty. I don’t have an axe to grind; most people I know are fed up of being caught between both sides in this fight. I do have a question, how can the supports of recall, RM and WE justify Warnie’s actions and still be intellectually honest with himself or herself or anyone else? Doesn’t your credibility take a major hit? How can you be taken seriously by anyone?

You cannot have it both ways; bad decisions are bad decisions, No matter who makes them. You must be constant in life...

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:02:00 PM
Hmmmmm. Just a I figured, Can't get a straight answer on this blog and anybody who attempts to state an opinion contrary to the prevailing madness of this blog is labeled as a seyarto soundalike or a stooge of the chamber or developers. Jeff just keeps on sputtering calling people thieves and so forth. If anybody cared about his opinion he would be sued for some of the slanderous comments he has made on this site - but since nobody takes it or him seriously it doesn't matter.
Must be the thrill of seeing your thoughts (chuckle) in print since nobody in your real life gives a crap about your opinion. So you bloggers keep on stroking yourselves, feed off your one-sided, know-nothing opinions, convince Ed to run for council this fall (please) and leave the rest of us alone. No doubt you will attack me on this post but you never actually answer the questions or dispute the facts. What a waste of time.
The Cheese

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:05:00 PM
CheeseHead,
I don't know what facts you talk about that are in question. Enochs committed what the DA calls felonies. He should resign. No doubt, how tough is that to figure out. The other fact is he won't resign and a recall takes you into the time his trial starts. We are all convinced he is guilty, so he then has to step down. What kind of sputtering is that? Who's side does that leave me on? Do I care if you don't take me seriously, of course not. You are The Cheese. My name is clearly on here and can be found in some letters to the Californian and The Bugle. So I don't hide behind nicknames for my appearance. You must be swiss because you comments have many holes in it or are you one of those smelly cheeses because I suppose that would be what youre selling. Only Kelly or a friend of his would care if Ed ran, the normal guy off the street will only care when it counts going into the election. One-sided? For who? The residents and homeowners of this town? So who's side are you on? Theres a question you can answer. I had already answered your question about forging the traffic ticket long before you asked it, Cheese boy. But I encourage your comments, not like you telling people who don't agree with you to get off the blog. But what else is new with your type. Love it or live it right? LOL.
Jeff

PS-Let's see you complained about putting three words together......read your first five....DAH...you are The Cheese.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 2:46:00 PM
Hey Roy, when I googled Rep. William Jefferson, the third item down after his congressional website had this post (http://www.beyonddelay.org/summaries/jefferson.php). It lists the top 13 most corrupt members of congress. I didn't see all the Democrats you think dominate the government. You should look into this list and then compare your list. Seems there is some mighty corrupt politicians in this world isn't there?? Nasty.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, January 21, 2006 3:41:00 PM
Cheese Puff: Hey sweetie, if you are not KS an apology is due. Just prove that you are not KS, and humble pie will be eaten. (Of course, if you are KK - as in planning commissioner - or a relative of KS or JvH, that's no different than being KS).

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:46:00 PM
It is about time that many of you are waking up to the fact that our local, state and federal Republican leaders need to be removed from office. We should all thank Ed and The Bugle for posting or documenting the need to support candidates who will look out for and protect working class families who want to change our city for the better. They are pointing out that the republicans cannot be trusted to do the job anymore. With the digging and exposing they have done, it is very clear that we need to get behind Democrat candidates in our city. If you are truly ready for change and not moving the crown from one bad republican to the next bad republican, please help make the change. The first meeting to chart the course for change is with Ed. A second meeting for pro-environment and working class families is going to be held on Thursday February 9th. This will be an opportunity to meet local leading Democrat candidates and one local republican candidate who we hope is going to announce that she is re-registering! This meeting will be open to all who support reform.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:51:00 PM
Here is for one of you that think Im a liberal, especially Roy and Murrieta T. What this city does not need to do is find someone according to what party they support or what agenda they back. What we need are really good people. Trustworthy, out to earn the respect of the homeowners and residents in this town. Who care what side they butter their bread. I don't want an agenda backed candidate. Leave that for the State and Federal government. Lets find someone that answers first to us, second to his family and third to his agendas. Lets get some people that can't be bought. People that care about us. I know that Ed, through his posts believes the same no matter who wants to paint him a Democrat or a liberal. I believe he is someone who fits the caring first about Murrieta mold.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 5:44:00 PM
Jeff = nice post. It is obvious that the closer it gets to november the more posts like 4:51 will be placed under false pretenses just to split the community. And please know that the cheese post is not given any credibility, because it is transparantly KS propaganda. You are appreciated in Murrieta, but only by those who really care about the community.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 6:38:00 PM
I'm sorry but the date for the upcoming meeting is not February 9th, it is Monday, February 6, 2006 at 7:00pm. It will take place at B'Nai Chaim Synagogue, 29500 Via Prencesa East, Murrieta. Maybe I have misread Ed's posting to some degree, but it is certain that Ed is a true progressive in his thoughts and well spoken words. We will have a great speaker on the 6th so please join us.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:41:00 PM
Oh no! The SEIU nut job is back in the Anon 4:51 post!
Give it up guy! Even republican haters Ed and Jeff (well hate is too strong a word) don't want to hear your anti-republican divide the community garbage.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 9:45:00 PM
Anon 9:45, where did you ever see me say that I hate republicans? Oh, you did say that "hate" was too strong a word, but you came up with none other.

The problem for many republicans is that there are too many opportunists who latch onto the republican label, but who are really trying to hide their personal agendas. It is the good republicans that provide the cover for such rascals.

If I were trying to identify who was a republican opportunist, I would start with the career pols. They have way to much ambition to really be trusted.

My second list would be business owners and executives to whom the pol in power is merely the person who must be financially supported, i.e.,"bribed."

I feel exactly the same way about democrats or any other career pol. In fact, I think it would be great if the voters of this nation were to refuse to vote for any incumbent. What a shockwave that would send through the insincere career opportunists.

So Mr. or Ms. Anon 9:45, in your own way you have backhandely called me a republican-hater. Try telling that to all my republican friends whom I have supported and who have supported my efforts to wake up this City.

Your efforts to divide the residents is duly noted and rejected. I don't expect you to give up your efforts, but your intentions are nonetheless exposed.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:20:00 PM
Ed, regardless of the above, can you give us a peak as to why you are not endorsing the re-election of Rick Gibbs?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, January 22, 2006 11:35:00 PM
Anon 11:35, you are so transparent with the "when did you stop beating your wife" question.

That tactic is so childish, that no response is needed. First, you need to establish that I do not support the re-election of Rick Gibbs. You haven't, and cannot, do that.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 6:50:00 AM
Ed- First of all you attack 9:45 for a backhanded comment, yet you don't discount the 4:51 divider of community along party lines.

Then, you attack 11:35 for his/her "tactic" yet refuse to answer a valid question.

It seems to me you are worried about politically correct terms instead of the real issues.

It has been inferred a number of times now on this blog that you are not supporting Gibbs. You have never refuted it. I for one, would like to see you say that it is an absurd claim, or say where the rumor came from, or admit to it. Which is it?

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 9:34:00 AM
Better yet, have Ed and his group stay out of the selection process. Why should they decide who would make a good council member or not? Who elected them? Of course their decision would be based to support their agenda and beliefs. I want all candidates to addresses the Murrieta citizens, without interference from any group that appoints themselves as an authority to determine what we need. It is an insult to the intellifence of Murrietans to assume they need someone to decide for them who should be a candidate and who should not!

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 12:40:00 PM
12:40 and Roy, what does Ed's supposed group stand for and why be opposed if you don't know? Roy we know you have stood against any recall and have defended Seyarto and McAlister in every way so your credibility is low. But anyone else, tell me what RM stands for that you don't believe in? They helped us rid our City of a person using his position for financial gains. It tried to rid us of the cancer in Seyarto and McAlister but fell a few votes short. So unless you are one of the supporters of the two development Councilmen, why would you have a statement opposing a group that has picked a very good Councilmen in Gibbs and eliminated a very dishonest one in JVH? All I see is positive from this group and a little power in getting things done, when no one thought they could. I for one voted because of the research and progressive thoughts they stood for.

And 9:45 let me again state my fews on political parties. I don't hate anyone. I dislike it when people use an ideology to make decisions instead of the head on their shoulders. If its a liberal view on not alerting parents on an underage child having an abortion to the right for our government to violate the 4th amendment for no reason but power. These are issues I stand up against be it conservative or liberal. But ideologs will defend both without a leg to stand on just because their faction supports these issues. It doesn't matter if they are really right or wrong. Thats my dislike, but not hatred for a group. Why 9:45 do you hate people because of what they believe?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 1:07:00 PM
Faunce and RM cannot endorse anyone because RM never had any other agenda than removing DM, KS and JvH - plain and simple. They bring ZERO to the table, just their hatred of the three, and their want for Murrieta to be like it was in the 1950's - you know, no traffic, no low income housing, no big box stores, no growth and by god, no new homes. RM stands firmly on the ground of "we were here first and we don't want your kind (read that as "any body who is not us") messing up our little Mayberry RFD. The good ole boys of Enochs and Osling support keeping Murrieta RFD just like they want it - rural, without in town development of jobs and capital and the tax base, and without all those nasty people moving into affordable housing.

If I was Rick Gibb's, I'd not want an endorsement from RM. Personally, I'd like to see EF run - he'd be trounced soundly and maybe that would put an end to to it.

Maybe now that Enochs is going to the big house, and Osling being on his way out, we can get two new faces on the City Council, recruit some high tech biz to the area, stop all this nonsense about blocking developers and get down to the busines of growing this town, no matter what RM Central HQ (ie the Colony) says about it.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 1:52:00 PM
To All,

First, I have not endorsed Rick Gibbs yet because he has not asked for endorsement. Nor is it even time for him to do so. Based on his performance in office thus far, I don't think Mr. Gibbs is going to have any trouble getting endorsements from all sectors of the community. That's includes me and all other home owners with whom I have conversed.

Second, the meeting on wednesday is not to select candidates. It is to begin the process of announcing to the residents that a group is forming that is willing to work for candidates after a secret ballot vote.

All residents are welcome to participate in the process as are all candidates welcome to seek the residents' support.

Two problems have led to the Council's capture by a single interest group -- the developers and related businesses.

1) The developers and Chamber selected their candidates out-of-sight of the Community and then donated sufficient money to insure their election.

2) Candidates from the community stepped forward without any widespread community support and ended up splitting the vote allowing the developer picked candidates to win.

The process we begin on wednesday seeks to address these two problems. We already know that the developer group is going to enter their horses in the Council race. While they are officially unannounced, Steve Flynn has already been overheard claiming that he has a Council position "locked up." We suspect that Mr. Randon Lane, Chair of the Planning Commission, may be a developer candidate. Mr. Steve Rawlings, a member of the Planning Commission, may also be put forward. And, of course, they could try to bring JvH back. If Kelly Seyarto runs, he'll probably get the developer backing as well. After all, that's why KS and Doug McAllister engineered the switch of the Mayor's title to KS so that he could run as the incumbent mayor! McAllister's term is not up for re-election this November.

Allowing the residents to decide who their candidates are and announcing in advance their support, will reduce the splitting of votes among the non-developer candidates.

And for Anon 1:52, you claim that RM brings zero to the table. Need I remind you that the Californian said the recall was the story of the year. Tell me, who else has successfully stepped up to fight for the residents of this City by organizing and delivering thousands of votes? Besides you show your ignorance by claiming that RM stands for no growth. Most of the active RM'ers were people who have moved here in the last 5 to 10 years. These are people who have come from many other Cities and know when a City is being improperly and out-of-balance developed.

You, sir or madam, sound a little hysterical -- sort of like you don't really believe your own spin. Well you will have few takers among real Murrietans either.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 2:11:00 PM
Cost of recall - over $70,000

Developer participation to save DM and KS from the stupidity of the recall - over $600,000

Funds spent by RM to denounce the Trio as crooks - about $25,000

Watching WE get arrested instead of who RM deemed "criminals" - PRICELESS

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 2:12:00 PM
Ok, EF...

So the recall was successfull because the Californian called it the story of the year? Wow, RM set the bar high on that one, huh.

Or was it successfull because you only went 1 for 3? I'd not call that successfull, I'd call that pretty poor performance.

And developers choosing candidates - oh my, how horrible. They want to bring tax dollars, capital improvements, jobs and housing to our town. Damn those developers - how dare they ! And then they have the nerve to want to particpate in the election process - I mean, who do they think they are, citizens or something?

And besides, don't they know that only RM can endorse reasonable candidates?

I can hardly type this I'm laughing so hard - what's good for RM is of course unallowable for developers. It's nice seeing the egg on RM's face with their boy's arrest. It's also nice to see the spin they're doing to pose themselves as not "no growth". That's truly funny.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 2:41:00 PM
2:41 sure sounds like KS, the arrogance, especially as we haven't seen him post under his own name and we know he follows this blog religiously.

You are full of BS.

First, this city has been way past Mayberry RFD, there being far and few open areas to develop left. So youre point being that any group wants to stop development holds no credibility. Talking about laughing at someones arrogance and sensible statements.

Second, let's see devlopers spent 600K+ and got slightly better then 50% of the vote against a group that spent what 10,000 dollars? These "senior citizens" as you called them kicked your butt!!! They eliminated the ringleader of your pride. No what they did is destroy the credibility you spread by saying your flyers and propaganda were all a lie!! All they had was some people standing out at the Grocery stores reminding people that we have no infrastructure to go with all the new homes. They were right and daily it gets worse. They are saying SLOW.....did you hear that.....slow...development of what land is left to develop. Don't just build the most profitable to development, but build what this city needs. Read your own post.....not one person in the world believes the development community wants to build whats best for Murrieta. They want to build whats best for there bank accounts. Period!!! They have no interest in jobs, except maybe to hire illegals for labor. Trust me, I know who built my home and cleaned the areas, and it wasnt union workers. So your post is illogical and rather demeaning to people on this blog who know the truth. You are easily one of the people we need to show up in this election battle. So your "no growth" comment is meaningless as all we want is "proper growth for Murrieta"!
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 3:12:00 PM
To Anons 2:12 and 2:41, the emotionality of your posts shows that you were really "stung" by the success of the recall.

Some people just can't move along, but we understand. You were and still are opposed to the recall. Sorry, but life moves on.

Don't forget, RM said the Council was dysfunctional. RM went after the three who were joined at the voting-finger and who ignored the residents' legitimate complaints. RM sucessfully broke up that voting block despite the massive developer funding. Those are facts. Keep laughing, it may be your only consolation.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 3:38:00 PM
To All, by the way, Anon 2:41 is Kelly Seyarto. My speech pattern analysis program gives a >1% error prediction that it's Kelly.

Yes Kelly, I'm sure you are rejoicing in the misfortune of WE. You probably had someone to do with bringing that about, right?

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 5:51:00 PM
EF 5:51 That 1% is a killer! Sorry, although KS may be rejoicing in the "misfortune" (nice euphemism)of WE I don't believe he had anything to do with it.

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 6:12:00 PM
2:12. Your post reveals you know very little, except what you have read on this blog and what you have heard, about the recall in Murrieta. If you have read the majority of Californian articles, then you would know what the facts are about the recall. I can only surmise that you do not live in this City. However, I do believe you had a part in the recall, or should I say the anti-recall. At no time was any of the Trio deemed as criminals, nor has WE to date. While he may be guilty, the fat lady has yet to tune up the chorus, nor has the jury decided his fate. This includes the Council, the City or the Chamber. And why do you suppose that is? And the answer couldn't be that because it isn't PC.

Just Curious

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 8:28:00 PM
2:41 The same comment above applies to you also.
Just Curious

By Anonymous, at Monday, January 23, 2006 8:49:00 PM
In today's Press Enterprise, Councilman McAllister is quoted:

"Doug McAllister said Tuesday that Enochs' upcoming trial over 14 felony counts would be a distraction for a city still recovering from a bitter recall election in May.

Enochs' participation in city business also could taint council decisions and influence matters that affect residents, entrepreneurs or local leaders who might testify in his court case, McAllister said.

"He's going to be extremely busy staying out of jail and he's going to have to focus on his defense," McAllister said. "He's not going to be able to do the job justice."

Typical McAllister blather, he uses "distraction" as his test. But what about the distraction caused by van Haaster, Seyarto and McAllister's recall election? Apparently, a distraction is only a basis for resignation when it involves someone other than McAllister and his buddies.

McAllister is further quoted:

"McAllister said he waited to step up to see if Enochs and his supporters would "do the right thing" for Murrieta. His request was not influenced by Enochs' support of the recall election or other political motivations, he said.

"I was elected to lead," McAllister said. "That means even when it hurts."

McAllister can't keep his stories straight for even a few weeks. Isn't this the same councilman who REFUSED to take the Mayor's position when it became his turn? Yeah, right Doug, when it was your turn to lead, you turned it down. You're nothing but an opportunist.

And speaking of opportunist, McAllister's latest grab for headlines is his grandstanding pitch to have Murrieta's police enforce the immigration law. McAllister knows that going nowhere. But did he get his fellow council member's support before launching this dud? Of course not, he'd rather pretend to be a leader while refusing to really lead.

It looks to me like we still have a very dysfunctional City Councilman on our hands. McAllister, why don't you offer to resign if WE does? Now that would be leadership that hurts, right?

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:59:00 AM
Mr. Faunce, Yes that kind of leadership would hurt DM. But it would be unfair, because it would hurt DM financially in ways far greater than it would hurt any other counciman.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:18:00 AM
Rholmgren, what you call "disgruntled citizens" was democracy at work. And as to the questionable ethics, the former Mayor published his own confession as an open letter to the citizens.

You haven't explained how calling for the resignation of one who says that they are innocent, doesn't violate the presumption of innocence.

I'm not defending "damaged goods" -- I am defending our Constitutional principle that requires withholding judgment until the criminal justice system renders its decision.

As to tainting our candidates, this message is brought to you by the same people who endorsed and supported Mr. Rick Gibbs. Our track record, in that regards, speaks for itself.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:57:00 AM
Ed, this is the same Roy that came on here and said we should let the Enochs situation play out, innocent until proven guilty. However, just like always, whatever way the Seyarto/McAlister team leans, so will Roy. Roy is so bitter from the recall election that all he can do is defend their every move. This is the only man that would defend the appearance of the high density AC development on Washington that has made an eyesore of that street. His comments are not his but a constant defense of the Seyarto team and the VanHaaster agenda. He has already stated that his job relates to development in this area. He makes his money off profit from here, so his personal agenda is tied to the bought votes of Seyarto and McAlister.

Yes, Kelly, sue me. Threaten my freedom of speech, maybe George will wiretap me for you. I believe that from your patterned voting on the Council and your comments on this blog, that you owe the development community and each vote you make is a payment back to them for their support yesterday and the support you will get tomorrow. Roy is a follower and not credible because his financial interests are tied to your votes and he knows it. Does anyone think it is credible for any resident to think that development is not an eyesore??

Now for McAlister. Nancy Knight is now right to bring into play McAlister's family issues as he has brought Enochs family issues into play. He should be asked about them and asked to defend them. As he thinks that a person's domestic issues are part of the Murrieta City Council his should come into play. He also attacked Enochs supporters. Who are they Dougie. I know they are not your supporters because you just drew a line in the sand. You made a comparison that there is a difference in someone supporting Enochs until proven guilty and being on the moral side of the issue. Again, cheating your wife out of a few bucks and turning your back on your children are not even close pal. If anyone's past affects our great city yours should be called into question.

Conspiracy or logic? Facts are McAlister and Seyarto vote as one on development issues in our City Council....its a fact not a theory. Roy it's a fact that you have to again defend as you calling what I am reasonably looking at as a theory. Fact two, on many votes, three other Councilmen vote differently, demanding a higher bar for developers....its another fact. Here are two Councilmen who were given 600K to protect them from being recalled by the very people that we need to be protected from, voting together, lowering the bar in this city. Why would they vote this way...not once, not a couple of times.....EVERY TIME. It's a system we need changed. It is the same system that the former House Majority leader in Washington got caught up in, Tom DeLay. Taking Corporate money for re-election campaigns and then pushing the Corporation agendas. You don't have to take the cash to be bought and paid for. The money that doesn't come out of your personal bank account to acheive the power status of being in office is money in your pocket. Kelly admitted on a post here on this blog that the recall campaign cost him nothing out of his pocket because he had 600K in Corporate money funding him against a combined 25K for the challengers. That homeowners, earned Kelly's and Dougies votes. A tag team event until they no longer are on the Council. All Kelly does is come on here and say, if you talk about it Jeff, I'll sue you. He says, No, his vote isn't bought, as he votes for the benefit of the developers with each vote. So I say Seyarto and McAlister are a tag team, are unethical to sell us out. They are also unethical in the quick change Mayor appointment and really showed that this is about misleading our community and not leading it. Kelly has admitted voting to make another Councilman look bad. What kind of representative of our City would do that!!!!!!!!!!

We need change. We need it this November. We need Kelly out. We need Ostling out. We need Enochs to step down or prove he's innocent.

McAlister wants to see illegals rounded up and shipped out. Good thought, but Doug I call for your crackdown to be against the hiring of these illegals!!! How about we start with the labors and tradespeople that work for the development community. Each project should be viewed and all workers screened. If any are found then the Corporation hiring them arrested as they are the biggest law breakers. So thats where you can start, with the local builders and developers. And don't stop with just the illegal workers, because they will be back in a week unless you attack the life line, the businesses hiring them. If you make the businesses pay the price, they won't hire illegal workers and the workers wont come back. But Dougie, you know what.....thats the last thing you will do!!! You will try to look good, shipping some workers back, only for them to be back tomorrow. Like I said, you are worthless.

Now, Kelly and Company come back and attack me as Anons. Or come back with proof that you are not tied together at the hip. Come back with how you have voted on development issues over say the last 14 months. Give us the stats to prove I am wrong. Show everyone that it is just a theory. You can't!!! Don't come back and attack me the person, I don't care and neither does anyone else because I am no one, Come back and attack my logic with your statistics of proof.

Oh and I love when you say I sputter, makes me feel important. What will make me feel important is you never going back into the City Council after November. Important that we as a community stepped up and did the right thing.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:52:00 AM
Maybe, but Ed still have refused to endorse Gibbs for re-election

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:31:00 PM
2:31 - When you have nothing to say, you simply repeat it. Yours is the mumbo jumbo BS of a KS supporter.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:26:00 PM
Regarding 231, I don't know about Faunce, but I don't think it makes sense to ever endorse anyone before election time draws near. If Faunce wants to reserve final judgement on any potential candidate, he is displaying more intelligence than those who would expect an early endorsement.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:47:00 PM
Face it Rholmgren. With people like McAllister coming out with calls for Enochs to resign, your path has been set. Follow, follow, follow.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 7:49:00 PM
Your reply is so typical Roy. You have really never taken the high road. You just follow the lead of others. Im sorry because youre a fighter, except that you really are just able to fight in the direction someone has pointed you. You'd be great at attacking a pinata.

I don't think anyone is defending Enochs actions. Everytime I turn Kelly's crew have accused Ed Faunce of some path that he hasn't gone down. He's defending a person's right to be innocent until proven guilty. Like I said in a different post, what advantage would Enochs gain by facing the critics and cameras of staying on the Council? It would be incredibly painful to be embarrassed like that when he could shut the drapes and we would forget. It takes alot of something to stand firm and say Im innocent. Its not like politicians in Washington that keep the cash rolling in, I'm sure the $600 a month doesn't make or break any of our Councilmen. To stay on means he faces people like McAlister. It takes either guts, stupidity or to prove that you are he's right. One of the three. It's much easier to walk away then be escorted out.

If you want to speak on damaged goods, then Seyarto is the ultimate damaged good. He is broke and has placed a scarlet letter on his chest with his voting record. McAlister's cowardice has created a "default" Mayor in Murrieta.

Anyone with common sense, can see the logic behind the developer, Chamber of Commerce connection with Seyarto and McAlister that Ed has traced. You can see the connection he has made with Corporate connected Republicans. It is all in front of us and all we have to do is connect the 600K dots. The people that rush to attack Ed's research are people who have not layed out any proof for their defense of these two Councilmen. No one comes on here and says, look here Jeff, McAlister voted different this one time to set the bar higher. No one comes on here and points out how Seyarto has stood up for the homeowners and rejected a developers plan for the good of the City. Isn't that one of the main reasons almost 50% of this community voted to recall him and place a trainee in his spot? Because he wouldn't listen to the homeowners on reasonable complaints? Of course it is. There is NO PROOF to attack my logic. My logic is sound. You would think that the Developer backed coalition of Stephenson would have told these guys to vote different just once to just prove my reasoning wrong. But they can't, because they can't cost any developer one extra cent. It's called being a shill. And we have two, misleading us into thinking they are representing us. Just take off the rose colored glasses and you will see two MADE men.

The development hit men are already out trying to make Ed Faunce look weak, spacy, illogical and stupid. Thats what they do when they are scared of something and they start early. Watch how the conservative talk shows attack potential liberals on the radio and TV. They don't care about politicians with no future. They care about ones that they know could hurt there chances. Its the same here. Posts start to come out of the woodwork calling support for Ed from the minority party in Riverside county to divide the homeowners by party lines. Make Ed out as a liberal and he'll get less votes if he runs. So take off the glasses people and understand that these posts are not your everyday residents of Murrieta. They are these politicians copying their Washington counterparts. If fear works there it will work here. Lets make sure it doesn't. Every political party needs to team up together as one against these guys. If we don't, we fail and we deserve what we get.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 8:35:00 PM
You are right again Roy. Ed needs to be listened to. He is a leader and can be an excellent candidate for the City Council. He should be respected for his ethics and work and his logic and reasoning. I have been behind him for months. Really good point.

Roy, just keep following and defending. Gosh ot must be terrible to NEVER have anything to stand up for. It just all keeps coming up smelly. Is it like a sewer backing up everyday?

This information has to be rehashed least because it is so important. If we don't get the message out, the values of my home and my neighbors home will fall. Our community will look like Hemet or the West side of Lake Elsinore. I will fight that and if it means I keep reminding you of our City nightmare, so be it. Every post that supports Seyarto or McAlister will be challenged. LOL.

But Roy, you still haven't told any of us what did RM ever do wrong?? I don't see one thing. Whats your logic?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, January 25, 2006 9:21:00 PM
Roy if that opinion is true then isn't Seyarto about 100 times more controversial???? You should be asking that he not run, if you are really true to doing what you feel is best for our city, right?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:14:00 AM
If anything is consistant or unbiased in Rholmgren's thoughts, he will call for the resignation of both Enochs and Seyarto. This would get rid of the two main sources of controversy on the council. There never would have been a recall if Seyarto was not there throwing his verbal rocks at everyone he dislikes. One of those rocks just happened to miss and killed his pal Vanhaster as he sat in the mayor's chair, and lots of his other friends and this city have also been hurt. Resign, Seyarto. And Enochs although you are not nearly as bad for this city as Seyarto you should resign also.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:43:00 AM
So odd and yet weirdly appropriate to see uncontrolled bigmouth howard dean and kelly seyarto mentioned in the same paragraph. Thank you rholmgren.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:45:00 PM
8:43 - It may be true that Kelly Seyarto's "verbal rocks" helped knock Jack vanHaaster off the dias. But no, he is not politically dead. He is still very public minded and looking forward to the future, thank you. And yes he will be supported all across Murrieta if he chooses to return to office in November. If no one out there has noticed, Kelly Seyarto has become more careful in his choice of words since the recall. He has grown while in office, and he will continue to grow as a political figure in our area and in the state. Everyone makes a mistake once in a while, and Kelly Seyarto is no super human exception.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:20:00 PM
Thank you Mrs Seyarto

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:33:00 PM
4:20 - Let's say you are right and you get what you want in November. Jack Vanhaster the sequel. Does anyone know if that puts him back in rotation for mayor? Like, does his last term even count since it was curtailed? Or can DM say, I think I'll pass again, and hand the job back to Jack? (What a way to build up a reservoir of favors to cash in on.)

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:00:00 PM
Mr Rhomgren you are wrong. KS is controversial even among people who are his associates - at least as far as I can see, and I have seen more than most have in town. He has some loyal supporters who are die hards but I think most of them don't actually know him. Quite the opposite vanHaaster is hardly controversial among his associates OR his supporters. How KS got through the recall election while vanHaaster lost is something hard to understand. There are many reasons why it would have made more sense the other way around. I think vanHaaster can, should and will be back this fall.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, January 26, 2006 6:45:00 PM

MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.

Saturday, January 14, 2006

Cheese it, boys, the jig is up

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