Who Really Controls Murrieta’s Development?
By Ed Faunce (posted by request)
Now that the Recall Election dust has settled and the campaign contribution statements have been filed, it is informative to see who and what really financed the recall election.
In one corner of the recall ring was Rescue Murrieta (RM), a grassroots Murrieta City residents’ organization. In the other corner was the Southwest County Taxpayers for Responsible Government (SWCTRG). At first glance, it might appear that this was a recall contest between two groups of citizens with differing views regarding Murrieta's development.
The recall petitions and election occurred during 2004 and 2005. RM charged that the City Council was run by a voting block consisting of van Haaster, Seyarto and McAllister. That voting block seemed always to side with business and developer interests over that of ordinary Murrieta residents. When the voting block tried to cover for van Haaster's secret meetings with
the Planning Commissioners to ram through a multi-million dollar day-care center, the recall movement exploded.
Rescue Murrieta's recall contribution statements showed that it raised $12,412 all of it from local Murrieta residents.
The SWCTRG reported total contributions of $593,585 from 180 separate persons and business entities.
But who are these Southwest Riverside County taxpayers who were $600,000 concerned about insuring responsible government for the City of Murrieta? As it turns out, SWCTRG is not a "Taxpayers" group, in the traditional sense of the word, nor is it a Southwest Riverside County group, much less a Murrieta City group.
On close inspection, it is revealed that the recall was actually a contest between Murrieta residents and a cabal of powerful business interests mostly from outside of Riverside County. The money contribution numbers tell the story.
A. How many SWCTRG contributors were individual Murrieta City residents?
Only eleven, who gave $2,400. But even then, it is clear that these individual contributors were actually representing their business interests.
Those individuals are:
Delzompo, Francis A.
Diago, Jodi (Real Estate Rancon)
Johnson, O. (Realtor Westmar)
Newman, David A., MD
O'Donnell, Michael (Rancon Real Estate)
Piper-Mutz, Mary (Real Estate Lee & Associates)
Powers, Sheila M. (Planning Consultant)
Rose, Patrick (Loan Officer Preferred Lenders)
Shoemaker, Sheri L. (Real Estate Lee & Associates)
Sparkman, Joan F. (VP Temecula Valley Bank)
Wikert, Karen C., (Bank Representative Arrowhead Credit Union)
Unlike SWCTRG, RM was supported by hundreds of individual Murrietans. In truth, the only money raised from residents in the recall was that raised by RM.
B. How many SWCTRG contributors were Murrieta City Businesses?
Fifteen, reporting contributions of $50,870, of which those associated with Dan Stephenson (Rancon) gave $37,500.
They are:
Stephenson, Dan (Rancon Realty)
AA Photography
Bob and Gary's field Fresh Berries
Craig Advertising specialties
Doyle, Robert G. (Riverside Co. Sheriff)
Jefferson 38 LLC (Rawlings)
McKinnon Family Trust
NUEVO DRK 370 LLC (Dan Stephenson)
O'Donnell, Donna J. (Rancon Real Estate)
Southwest Realty
Temecula Vineyard Estates, LLC (Dan Stephenson)
Transportable Case Supply Center
Village Walk, L.P. (Dan Stepheson)
Villiage Walk, LLC (Dan Stepheson)
Wood Realty Group, Inc.
C. Where did the remaining, over $500,000 non-Murrieta contributions, originate?
Riverside County - Outside of Murrieta - contributions were $209,565. (Temecula businesses gave $86,534) Orange County contributions were $176,550. San Diego County contributions were $80,600. Los Angeles County contributions were $50,300, out of State contributions were $16,250.
Irvine, Dionne R. (Ashland, Oregon) $5,000
Oak Valley Partners, LP (Dallas, Texas) $2,000
D. R. Horton, Inc. (Fort Worth, Texas) $5,000
Sunland Development Co., Inc (Henderson, Nevada) $4,250
San Bernardino County contributions were $2,700.
Sacramento County contributions were $1,000.
Alameda County contributions were $250
All of this non-Murrieta money came from businesses with an interest in the unfettered development of Murrieta land. Clearly, they had no interest in “responsible” Murrieta City Government.
D. These dollar figures allow the following observations:
1. The political group entitled "Southwest County Taxpayers for Responsible Government" is NOT a southwest Riverside County group. Nor is it a Taxpayors’ group equivalent to ordinary residents. Its primary goal is to secure a favorable business environment rather than responsible local government. In short, the SWCTRG name is a cynical attempt to mislead ordinary citizens and, as such, is a lie.
2. The business community identified van Haaster, Seyarto and McAllister as essential to their continued business interests.
3. Seyarto and McAllister owe their continued presence on the City Council to the business interests which funded the opposition to their recalls.
4. All of Seyarto and McAllister's City Council statements and votes since the recall election must be examined carefully to see whether they represent "pay back" to the business community.
5. If Murrieta City residents want a City Council that represents residents, then, at the next election, they should remove any
council member supported by SWCTRG and should be very skeptical of any person running for the Council supported by the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce.
E. A personal observation.
I would say that the Murrieta City Chamber of Commerce needs to re-invent itself. In my opinion, the existing Chamber has behaved shamefully. Of course, the fact that the Chamber is dominated by the Dan Stephenson business interests, along with many Temecula businesses, explains why the Chamber joined the political opposition to the recall. Is this really the proper role of a Chamber of Commerce? I think not.
The Chamber, following the retention of Seyarto and McAllister, voted Dan Stephenson as "Citizen of the Year." That is simply a finger-in-the-eye to the thousands of City residents who worked for the recall.
The Chamber’s“Citizen of the Year” vote proves that it joins in the lie that the recall opposition was ordinary taxpayers from this Riverside County area. In effect, the Chamber lied to Murrietans as well. That's why I believe that any future Council candidates, who are either members of the Chamber or supported by the Chamber, must be carefully screened before any
resident votes to add such individual to our City Council.
A postscript.
For those who are interested, here are the SWCTRG contributors from outside Murrieta:
Orange County:
Frost, Sean (Pres. Frost Communities)
Cohen, Alan H.
Lennar Homes
Alexander Communities, Inc.
Elsinore Home, Inc.
Silverhawk Land and Acquisitions, LLC
Pacific Soils Engineering, Inc.
Helgar, Larry, W. (Pulte Homes)
Civic Partners Inc.
Granite Homes, Inc. ($5K)
Including Granite Equities LLC ($2K)
Hall & Foreman, Inc
Hunsaker & Associates
MDS Consulting
Meritage Homes
RBF Consulting
Springbrook Investments, LP
SSC/Murrieta Valley, LLC
The Makena Great American Vermont Company, LLC
TSG Cherry Valley, LP
TSG Little Valley, LP
Wasson Canyon Investments, LP
White Rock Aquistion Co., LP
Stonegate Development I, LLC
Brown, Ian H. (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
Home Center Murrieta, LLC
Wynfield LLC
Cameo Homes
Fieldstone Communities Inc.
Frye Family Partnership
Laing/Sequoia Partners, LLC
Murrieta 144 LP
Murrieta 180, LP
Murrieta 492, LLC
Murrieta Brook LLC
Murrieta Village Walk, LP
Sheldon Group
Mesa Contracting Company
Woodside Home of California, Inc.
NAIOP PAC
Kadakia, Rajesh J., MD
The Batavia Land Company
Emerson, Ralph E. (Real Estate Developer
J.P. Rhoades Development
JL Hare Associates, Inc.
T&B Planning Consultants
Davis, Allan L. (Real Estate Developer)
Retail Development Advisors
San Diego County:
Votapka, Gary M. (CEO Mission Oaks Bank)
Engel, Richard C., M.D.
Williams, Thomas G. (Williams Investments)
Baratt American Incorporated
Benchmark Pacific Management, Inc.
BREHM Communities
Carltas Development co.
D. R. Horton
GMS Realty, LLc
NORCO II, LLC
Brookfield California Land Holdings, LLC
Avis, Douglas M.
Meadow Vista Holdings LLC
Sierra Linda Development, LLC
Crisell Commercial Advisors, Inc.
Lopardo, Stephen V. (attorney)
McMillin Mangement Services, LP
Lotzof, P., MD, Inc
Alhadeff & Solar, LLP
Cornerstone Communities Corporation
KB Home Coastal, Inc.
Ross, Dixon & Bell, LLP
Starck Architecture & Planning
Stonewood, Inc.
Temecula Creek Inn (DL)
Whitaker Facilities Corp.
William Lyon Homes, Inc.
Lynch, Gilbert G. (Construction K.I.P. Inc.)
Los Angeles County:
Womble, Albert B. (The Womble Group)
Buchalter, Barton L.
Crescent heights Development, LP
B.I.A. of Southern California Political Action Committee
Western Pacific Housing
Global Investment & Development, LLC
Marquis Property Company, LTD
Triple M Development
San Bernardino County:
Landmark Fence Co., Inc.
Tanamera Residential, LLC
Sacramento County:
Apartment Association Greater Inland Empire
California Business Properties Association Issues PAC
Alameda County:
Murrieta Medical Company, LLC
And here are the Riverside County contributors outside of Murrieta:
AJR Investment LLC
All American Asphalt All American Aggregates
American Contracting, Inc.
Austin, Nancy (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
Calloway 220 LLC
Capitol Pacific Homes, Inc.
CDM Group, Inc.
Chicago title Company
Clinton Keith Real Estate Partners, LLC
Committee to Elect Greg Morrison
D.L. Phares & Associates
Domenigoni-Barton Properties
Edwards, Maryann P. (Temecula City Council)
Entrepreneurial Properties Corporation
Fairway Landscape & Irrigation, Inc.
First American Title Company
Francis Domenigoni Trust
Giese, Richard J. (Supt. Mt. S.J. College)
Grasberger, Jeffrey W.
Green, William L. (Engineer RMF Associates)
Hall & Bailey
Hancock Properties, LLC
HK&A Harley Knox and Associates, Inc.
JAFCO Accounting & Administration
Johson, John J. (VP Rancon Group)
Jones, Kelli M. (Realtor Dendy Real Estate)
Kuebler, Joseph J. (Kuebler, Prudhomme & Co.)
Larson, Robert L.
Lytle Team Real Estate
Markham Development Management Group, Inc. (Larry Markham)
MLA Partners C/O Westmar Property Mgmt, Inc.
Moramarco, Sr., John A.
Morrison, Michelle s.
Murrieta Spectrum, LP
Murrieta Village Partners, LLC
Oak Grove Equities
O'Neal, Paul L.
O'Reilly Public Relations
Pacific Century Home, Inc.
Perea, Ernest (Pres. EPC Land Consultants)
Prudhomme, Gregory J. (Owner Kuebler, Prudhomme & Co.)
Rancon Opportunity Fund, LLC (Dan Stephenson)
Riverside County Region Building Industry Association
Rodriguez, Adriana (Transaction coordinator Park Place GMAC)
RSD, LLC
Santa Rosa Developers Limited
Schierberl, Michelle D. (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
SHEA Homes Inland Empire Div.
Standard Pacific of Inland Empire
Stone-Rubin, Laurene
Swenson Advisors, LLP
The Garrett Group, Inc.
Thompson, David (Pool Design and Construction)
Trans-Pacific Consultants
Westmar Commercial Brokerage, Inc.
Yoo, Insook (Trans-Pacific Consultants)
Yoo,Won S. (Trans-Pacific Consultants)
Ziemer, Roger C.
Now that the Recall Election dust has settled and the campaign contribution statements have been filed, it is informative to see who and what really financed the recall election.
In one corner of the recall ring was Rescue Murrieta (RM), a grassroots Murrieta City residents’ organization. In the other corner was the Southwest County Taxpayers for Responsible Government (SWCTRG). At first glance, it might appear that this was a recall contest between two groups of citizens with differing views regarding Murrieta's development.
The recall petitions and election occurred during 2004 and 2005. RM charged that the City Council was run by a voting block consisting of van Haaster, Seyarto and McAllister. That voting block seemed always to side with business and developer interests over that of ordinary Murrieta residents. When the voting block tried to cover for van Haaster's secret meetings with
the Planning Commissioners to ram through a multi-million dollar day-care center, the recall movement exploded.
Rescue Murrieta's recall contribution statements showed that it raised $12,412 all of it from local Murrieta residents.
The SWCTRG reported total contributions of $593,585 from 180 separate persons and business entities.
But who are these Southwest Riverside County taxpayers who were $600,000 concerned about insuring responsible government for the City of Murrieta? As it turns out, SWCTRG is not a "Taxpayers" group, in the traditional sense of the word, nor is it a Southwest Riverside County group, much less a Murrieta City group.
On close inspection, it is revealed that the recall was actually a contest between Murrieta residents and a cabal of powerful business interests mostly from outside of Riverside County. The money contribution numbers tell the story.
A. How many SWCTRG contributors were individual Murrieta City residents?
Only eleven, who gave $2,400. But even then, it is clear that these individual contributors were actually representing their business interests.
Those individuals are:
Delzompo, Francis A.
Diago, Jodi (Real Estate Rancon)
Johnson, O. (Realtor Westmar)
Newman, David A., MD
O'Donnell, Michael (Rancon Real Estate)
Piper-Mutz, Mary (Real Estate Lee & Associates)
Powers, Sheila M. (Planning Consultant)
Rose, Patrick (Loan Officer Preferred Lenders)
Shoemaker, Sheri L. (Real Estate Lee & Associates)
Sparkman, Joan F. (VP Temecula Valley Bank)
Wikert, Karen C., (Bank Representative Arrowhead Credit Union)
Unlike SWCTRG, RM was supported by hundreds of individual Murrietans. In truth, the only money raised from residents in the recall was that raised by RM.
B. How many SWCTRG contributors were Murrieta City Businesses?
Fifteen, reporting contributions of $50,870, of which those associated with Dan Stephenson (Rancon) gave $37,500.
They are:
Stephenson, Dan (Rancon Realty)
AA Photography
Bob and Gary's field Fresh Berries
Craig Advertising specialties
Doyle, Robert G. (Riverside Co. Sheriff)
Jefferson 38 LLC (Rawlings)
McKinnon Family Trust
NUEVO DRK 370 LLC (Dan Stephenson)
O'Donnell, Donna J. (Rancon Real Estate)
Southwest Realty
Temecula Vineyard Estates, LLC (Dan Stephenson)
Transportable Case Supply Center
Village Walk, L.P. (Dan Stepheson)
Villiage Walk, LLC (Dan Stepheson)
Wood Realty Group, Inc.
C. Where did the remaining, over $500,000 non-Murrieta contributions, originate?
Riverside County - Outside of Murrieta - contributions were $209,565. (Temecula businesses gave $86,534) Orange County contributions were $176,550. San Diego County contributions were $80,600. Los Angeles County contributions were $50,300, out of State contributions were $16,250.
Irvine, Dionne R. (Ashland, Oregon) $5,000
Oak Valley Partners, LP (Dallas, Texas) $2,000
D. R. Horton, Inc. (Fort Worth, Texas) $5,000
Sunland Development Co., Inc (Henderson, Nevada) $4,250
San Bernardino County contributions were $2,700.
Sacramento County contributions were $1,000.
Alameda County contributions were $250
All of this non-Murrieta money came from businesses with an interest in the unfettered development of Murrieta land. Clearly, they had no interest in “responsible” Murrieta City Government.
D. These dollar figures allow the following observations:
1. The political group entitled "Southwest County Taxpayers for Responsible Government" is NOT a southwest Riverside County group. Nor is it a Taxpayors’ group equivalent to ordinary residents. Its primary goal is to secure a favorable business environment rather than responsible local government. In short, the SWCTRG name is a cynical attempt to mislead ordinary citizens and, as such, is a lie.
2. The business community identified van Haaster, Seyarto and McAllister as essential to their continued business interests.
3. Seyarto and McAllister owe their continued presence on the City Council to the business interests which funded the opposition to their recalls.
4. All of Seyarto and McAllister's City Council statements and votes since the recall election must be examined carefully to see whether they represent "pay back" to the business community.
5. If Murrieta City residents want a City Council that represents residents, then, at the next election, they should remove any
council member supported by SWCTRG and should be very skeptical of any person running for the Council supported by the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce.
E. A personal observation.
I would say that the Murrieta City Chamber of Commerce needs to re-invent itself. In my opinion, the existing Chamber has behaved shamefully. Of course, the fact that the Chamber is dominated by the Dan Stephenson business interests, along with many Temecula businesses, explains why the Chamber joined the political opposition to the recall. Is this really the proper role of a Chamber of Commerce? I think not.
The Chamber, following the retention of Seyarto and McAllister, voted Dan Stephenson as "Citizen of the Year." That is simply a finger-in-the-eye to the thousands of City residents who worked for the recall.
The Chamber’s“Citizen of the Year” vote proves that it joins in the lie that the recall opposition was ordinary taxpayers from this Riverside County area. In effect, the Chamber lied to Murrietans as well. That's why I believe that any future Council candidates, who are either members of the Chamber or supported by the Chamber, must be carefully screened before any
resident votes to add such individual to our City Council.
A postscript.
For those who are interested, here are the SWCTRG contributors from outside Murrieta:
Orange County:
Frost, Sean (Pres. Frost Communities)
Cohen, Alan H.
Lennar Homes
Alexander Communities, Inc.
Elsinore Home, Inc.
Silverhawk Land and Acquisitions, LLC
Pacific Soils Engineering, Inc.
Helgar, Larry, W. (Pulte Homes)
Civic Partners Inc.
Granite Homes, Inc. ($5K)
Including Granite Equities LLC ($2K)
Hall & Foreman, Inc
Hunsaker & Associates
MDS Consulting
Meritage Homes
RBF Consulting
Springbrook Investments, LP
SSC/Murrieta Valley, LLC
The Makena Great American Vermont Company, LLC
TSG Cherry Valley, LP
TSG Little Valley, LP
Wasson Canyon Investments, LP
White Rock Aquistion Co., LP
Stonegate Development I, LLC
Brown, Ian H. (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
Home Center Murrieta, LLC
Wynfield LLC
Cameo Homes
Fieldstone Communities Inc.
Frye Family Partnership
Laing/Sequoia Partners, LLC
Murrieta 144 LP
Murrieta 180, LP
Murrieta 492, LLC
Murrieta Brook LLC
Murrieta Village Walk, LP
Sheldon Group
Mesa Contracting Company
Woodside Home of California, Inc.
NAIOP PAC
Kadakia, Rajesh J., MD
The Batavia Land Company
Emerson, Ralph E. (Real Estate Developer
J.P. Rhoades Development
JL Hare Associates, Inc.
T&B Planning Consultants
Davis, Allan L. (Real Estate Developer)
Retail Development Advisors
San Diego County:
Votapka, Gary M. (CEO Mission Oaks Bank)
Engel, Richard C., M.D.
Williams, Thomas G. (Williams Investments)
Baratt American Incorporated
Benchmark Pacific Management, Inc.
BREHM Communities
Carltas Development co.
D. R. Horton
GMS Realty, LLc
NORCO II, LLC
Brookfield California Land Holdings, LLC
Avis, Douglas M.
Meadow Vista Holdings LLC
Sierra Linda Development, LLC
Crisell Commercial Advisors, Inc.
Lopardo, Stephen V. (attorney)
McMillin Mangement Services, LP
Lotzof, P., MD, Inc
Alhadeff & Solar, LLP
Cornerstone Communities Corporation
KB Home Coastal, Inc.
Ross, Dixon & Bell, LLP
Starck Architecture & Planning
Stonewood, Inc.
Temecula Creek Inn (DL)
Whitaker Facilities Corp.
William Lyon Homes, Inc.
Lynch, Gilbert G. (Construction K.I.P. Inc.)
Los Angeles County:
Womble, Albert B. (The Womble Group)
Buchalter, Barton L.
Crescent heights Development, LP
B.I.A. of Southern California Political Action Committee
Western Pacific Housing
Global Investment & Development, LLC
Marquis Property Company, LTD
Triple M Development
San Bernardino County:
Landmark Fence Co., Inc.
Tanamera Residential, LLC
Sacramento County:
Apartment Association Greater Inland Empire
California Business Properties Association Issues PAC
Alameda County:
Murrieta Medical Company, LLC
And here are the Riverside County contributors outside of Murrieta:
AJR Investment LLC
All American Asphalt All American Aggregates
American Contracting, Inc.
Austin, Nancy (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
Calloway 220 LLC
Capitol Pacific Homes, Inc.
CDM Group, Inc.
Chicago title Company
Clinton Keith Real Estate Partners, LLC
Committee to Elect Greg Morrison
D.L. Phares & Associates
Domenigoni-Barton Properties
Edwards, Maryann P. (Temecula City Council)
Entrepreneurial Properties Corporation
Fairway Landscape & Irrigation, Inc.
First American Title Company
Francis Domenigoni Trust
Giese, Richard J. (Supt. Mt. S.J. College)
Grasberger, Jeffrey W.
Green, William L. (Engineer RMF Associates)
Hall & Bailey
Hancock Properties, LLC
HK&A Harley Knox and Associates, Inc.
JAFCO Accounting & Administration
Johson, John J. (VP Rancon Group)
Jones, Kelli M. (Realtor Dendy Real Estate)
Kuebler, Joseph J. (Kuebler, Prudhomme & Co.)
Larson, Robert L.
Lytle Team Real Estate
Markham Development Management Group, Inc. (Larry Markham)
MLA Partners C/O Westmar Property Mgmt, Inc.
Moramarco, Sr., John A.
Morrison, Michelle s.
Murrieta Spectrum, LP
Murrieta Village Partners, LLC
Oak Grove Equities
O'Neal, Paul L.
O'Reilly Public Relations
Pacific Century Home, Inc.
Perea, Ernest (Pres. EPC Land Consultants)
Prudhomme, Gregory J. (Owner Kuebler, Prudhomme & Co.)
Rancon Opportunity Fund, LLC (Dan Stephenson)
Riverside County Region Building Industry Association
Rodriguez, Adriana (Transaction coordinator Park Place GMAC)
RSD, LLC
Santa Rosa Developers Limited
Schierberl, Michelle D. (Real Estate Grubb & Ellis)
SHEA Homes Inland Empire Div.
Standard Pacific of Inland Empire
Stone-Rubin, Laurene
Swenson Advisors, LLP
The Garrett Group, Inc.
Thompson, David (Pool Design and Construction)
Trans-Pacific Consultants
Westmar Commercial Brokerage, Inc.
Yoo, Insook (Trans-Pacific Consultants)
Yoo,Won S. (Trans-Pacific Consultants)
Ziemer, Roger C.
posted by J. L. Kunkle at
Thursday, November 17, 2005
139 Comments:
Ed Faunce,
Amazing job!! I know this took time and effort and it's residents like you that will help Murrieta back on the right footing. Thank you. All you have to do is go for it now and you have my total backing and support. The citizens of Murrieta should be making a person like you Resident of the year.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:31:00 PM
This is definitely not a big deal. Everyone already knew there were some big business interests involved. To me this means Murrieta is in the big leagues. I don't think our elections will ever be the same again. We are finally starting to financially resemble elections that other cities have with a population the same size. Hopefully in the future a wider range of large businesses will be financially involved in our elections. It will be a sign of increasing economic strength and diversity.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 5:32:00 PM
Ed,
I saw in the voting Tuesday that only Kelly was worried about the developer having to wait for the judges decision. Doesn't that show all the residents of Murrieta where his heart and head lie. He's more concerned about the developer then stopping this lawsuit powerplay. But maybe he designed it. The only power the people of Murrieta will ever have is through our vote. We've asked Seyarto and McAlister to support us and they turn their back everytime. Again, thanks for all the work you did enlightening all of us. We need to keep Corporate money out of the elections. If they care about the direction of this town so much, have them donate it to the betterment of the residents not the betterment of Seyarto's career.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:47:00 PM
I'd like to hear more from the FLY?
You know Seyarto reads these posts and he's just dying to write back. To bad big business can control someones ability to speak for themselves. Kelly, just shows your just a puppet for development, nothing more. It just shows you'd sell out to move your career forward.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:49:00 PM
But Rholmgren, the reason why this economic analysis is a big deal is precisely that Murrieta is "in the big leagues." But we're in the last stages of the "big league" real estate development.
Once all of the residential land and the MU3 high density land is gone, do you really think that all these real estate developers are going to continue to pour money into Murrieta politics?
Of course not. They will be up the 15 and 215 (in fact they already are) doing the same thing in Wildomar, Lake Elsinor, Sun City, Menifee, Hemet etc. They don't hang around to insure that the residents have adequate infrastructure to support the populations they built for. They don't hang around to see if the residents had enough open commercial space to allow major businesses to move in, or Colleges, Universities, and other amenities.
Come on, the reason they spent $600K was because they expect an ROI (return on investment). There's still millions to be made in Murrieta. God forbid that some residential activists would gain some input into the City Council and slow down the financial pipeline into their bank accounts.
You say that this amount of money and where it originated is a sign of our "... increasing economic strength and diversity."
But I say, that it is a sign of our increasing economic enslavement to interests overwhich we have absolutely no control. City Hall will not fight for the residents of this City. Bureacrats never do. Only the elected officials will perform that function. That's exactly why we needed to change the political climate and need to stay focused until the job is finished.
Edward Faunce
PS The Alexander Communities project was continued by a vote of 4 - 1 on Tuesday night to allow AC's lawsuit to receive the judge's ruling. Only Seyarto voted against the continuance because, according to the Californian, he didn't think it would be fair to make AC wait any longer!!! How transparent is Seyarto. He doesn't even want to make AC wait for the ruling on their lawsuit. Seyarto wants to give them their victory before we know whether they will win. PAY BACK!
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:50:00 PM
Mr. Faunce,
There are times when the right people come along at the right time, rising to the challenges of the circumstances of that time and place in which they live. We in Murrieta are fortunate that a few people - you a leader among them - with insight, determination, and prescience happen to be among us at a time when our city is struggling through its growing years. Please forgive me if my gratitude sounds overstated, for it is not. I am so very grateful that someone in this town would, for the sake of us all, take the time and mental energy to put together the facts and stand tall in the defense of the truth, and in defense of the common citizens of Murrieta. Thank you. For myself, my family, and for many others in this town, thank you so very, very much.
ONE AMONG MANY
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 7:57:00 PM
Mr. Faunce: Mr. Gibbs ideas on drawing more businesses to the are have alot of merit. I am just not sure if it will mean a better revenue stream to the city. It seems that your biggest concern is that you think we will not have enough revenue to finish needed infrastructure by buildout. Development aside; What would be the best way to generate consistent city revenue down the road? An Industrial park east of 215? A hotel row along Madison south? I am no expert of city revenue streams but maybe your perception is that sales tax dollars and property tax revenue will not be enough to finish and maintain the city after buildout. Does anyone have any city revenue projections at build out?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 8:03:00 PM
Ed,
I told you, you better clear away some part of your life because we all have a little overtime planned for you.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:06:00 PM
I have been sitting on the sidelines for many months, reading posts, trying to see and understand everyone’s point of view(s). What astounds me is that one writer continues to try to the spin facts, facts that are warning the people about what’s around the next corner, facts that should be taken seriously. The latest spin is “Hopefully in the future a wider range of large businesses will be financially involved in our elections. It will be a sign of increasing economic strength and diversity.” Is this what we really have to look forward to, to cheer about and to hope for ? Another city controlled by big business, by unions, and in this city one that is controlled by developers such as Dan Stephenson ? What happened to the People ? Are they not the ones that should play a majority role in a city ? The ones that create their own destiny ? Being controlled by big business is not a sign of diversity, it is a sign of power and dictatorship. It is for this same exact reason these United States were created, by those wishing to get away from the power mongers and dictators. Mr. Rholgrem, I suggest that if this is the way you choose to live, then you had better pack up your bags and leave this City. Believe it or not there many more people in this fine City then you will ever believe that are just waiting to evict people like yourself, your followers and your leaders next year, KS being just one of the first of them.
Mr. Kunkle, thank you for allowing Mr. Faunce to post a most informative writing. Yes, it true a lot the $$’s have been printed in the local newspaper media, and to some, Mr. Faunce’s writing comes of no surprise. However, until the information is presented in its full entirety, no one can really appreciate the full impact of it all.
Mr. Faunce, your dedication to this City is an inspiration to us all. We thank you for what you do, for what you stand for, all in the name of the “plain folk” for the residents of Murrieta.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 9:27:00 PM
7:57 and 9:27,
As we move into this election year I think they you are the Murrieta residents that are the type to lead this change along with Ed. Be vocal on here. State your opinions, be it different or be it together. Let people know about this blog. If we need to let's advertise the blog. Now is the time to get this clear cut message out. There is more then one seat open and we need people to step up. If we leave it to Ed and the leaders of Rescue Murrieta to fight this alone we will be pushed aside. Get off the sidelines. To get people that defend the Van Haasters and Seyartos and McAlisters pushed to the outer edge of public opinion it will take many people stating their opinions, their thoughts and their views. I don't know any of us that knows everything but together we have the ultimate power to work change. It's time we take our City back and make it work for us. This could be the last chance we have.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 17, 2005 10:09:00 PM
9:27 your circle of friends may all think the same and want to "evict " those that disagree with you. My circle of friends wants economic and social properity and would never ever think of wanting to kick someone out of town based on their views. Murrieta is a part of the larger Southern California community and businesses large and small should be welcome to participate in our communinity. Don,t we want more local and high paying jobs to be located here so that fewer people have to commute out of our area to work? Any way 9:27 I am here to stay and so are many others that think like me. We have vested economic interests and have put down family roots. Deal with it.
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 8:21:00 AM
You are so smart Jeff. Let's push aside all of those that made Murrieta the great and attractive city that you wanted to move to and replace them with people who had an agenda in the past that would have made Murrieta more like Lakeland Village than the prosperous area it is today. The councilmen you keep bashing have more Murrieta accomplishments in their pinkys that all the Rescue Murrieta participants combined. (Maybe not you Mr. Faunce I think you stand on your own accomplishments separate from RM)
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 8:58:00 AM
Ed Faunce and Jeff,
The important question at this point is how to keep the public informed about the interests Kelly Seyarto and Doug McAllister are serving. Some people on this blogsite seem to think there are lots of readers, but most people in town I talk to don't even know how to get here (to this site). And many of those who have looked at the site in the past could have forgotten how they even found it in the first place. So, it may be that only a very small percentage of people in town read these posts. Your two opinions about national politics, as interesting as they may be, are not going to make a blip on the radar screen because the national scene is already saturated by political arguement, but the facts and common sense the two of you are displaying about our home town can make a real, tangible difference in our lives and the lives of all our families and friends. How can we get the word out there in a really big way that this important local discussion exists? It is such an important question, but I don't know the answer. I've seen this happen in other towns in the past, the fact that some very intelligent people do not get heard because the "bully pulpit" of the council chamber gets almost all the press coverage. The fact is that this town is on the verge of going to war over some of the last remaining prime commercial land in town, and the high-density multi-family developers have the big guns of high-dollar propaganda and political influence needed to win that war. It is so completely obvious that high density residential development in our commercial corridors is going to be a major permanent tax drain, where commercial development in those corridors would be a major permaent sales tax creating benefit. It should be a crime that the city bureacrats and certain elected officials can undermine the public trust by permanently chaining a major part of this town's highest potential commercial areas to the tax burdens created by a very dense inner-city type core of apartment and residential development. Whatever they may be thinking, whatever it is that may be motivating them, it is obviously not the good of the future of this town. I'm sorry, but I'm at a loss as to how to mobilize the public on an issue so important. I'm really afraid the bastards are going to win, and the citizens of this town are going to wake up one morning and find out it's too late, and the last best chances this town had to be fiscally affluent have been sold down the river into a high density fiscal whirlpool. And then, the big developers, their pockets full of cash, will be gone, leaving us who live in Murrieta to deal with the costly nightmare they left behind.
Been There
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 10:52:00 AM
Excellent commentary Been There. The ultimate question needs to be answered: How much of the MU zoning will be condos and apartments. I believe this type of development is necessary but I think that there needs to be clarity as to what their ultimate numbers and locations will be. Perhaps more clarity will help quiet the voices that are so against multifamily housing.
I read recently that only 2 percent of Americans read blogs but the numbers are growing fast. I estimated in a previous posting that roughly 700 people from Murrita have particpated or read this blog since it started. It is only a guess based on the 2% number.
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 12:27:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Thanks for your comments. I feel the most important precedent setting test will be the proposal to put over 400 apartments near the intersection of Murrieta Hot Springs Road and Jefferson Street. In my profession, I've watched and worked around civic development first hand in many cities over many years. If you look at this quadrangle of commercial corridor property in relation to the Golden Triangle and it's future as the major approach from the Triangle to the Civic Center/Downtown areas, this MU3 acreage is about as important a potential piece of commercial tax producing land as there could be. Jefferson is now being widened somewhat, but it is projected, long term at final build out, to be a major six-lane thoroughfare. This street has big near term commercial tax implications, and even bigger long term implications for the city of Murrieta. The sales tax potential is not important at all to a developer. But it is extremely important to the financial well being of a city. The developer will care only to maximize his profit. It is the protector of our public interests, the city government, which must determine whether the developer's interests and the city's interests are one and the same. In this case, if we're talking high density apartments, the answer is as clear as can be. It's tons of future revenues out the window if high density apartments go in this location, but its a lot of money in the pockets of the exiting developer. And according to everything I've read at city hall, high density in the MU3 part of this quadrangle is not an automatic right. Only a very small fraction of this property has the high density zoning. High density in any of the rest, as near as I can tell, would be nothing more than a favor to the developer. This is a no brainer. A clear case of powerful developer politics versus the public good. I apologize for getting so long and drawn out on this topic, so I'll stop, but it drives me crazy to think they're going to get away with it.
Been There
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 1:40:00 PM
Been There,
I don't ever think it's a case of writing a long post as some have complained about, I think it's the quality.
I don't know that your right on a six lane Jefferson continuing north of Murrieta Hot Springs, I don't think the available space is there. As to the build out of high density dwellings, I think that's the future of most of the remaining space left outside of the business areas around the 15/215 split. And as you mentioned some of the Councilmen love to do favors for developers.
About getting the word out on the blog. How about fliers, sent to all residents of Murrieta? If we need to have a fund raiser or get Rescue Murrieta involved to give ourselves some working capitol, thats what we need to do. Unless we take steps today we may be too late to affect the outcome of the election in a positive way for Murrieta.
Ed, has Rescue Murrieta ever thought of having a fund raiser?
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 3:25:00 PM
Been There,
I continue to read over your last post and find many subtle references to the wrongs that are being and have been placed upon the residents. I agree that the commercial areas all along the 15 and 15/215 split have to be developed commercially and protected against high density housing that is defended on this blog by one person.
I have always thought that we need something that draws people here to spend their money. Plans for hotels are in the works, but why would anyone stay an hour from either San Diego or LA? I don't think we can fill these rooms to capacity by having a Wal Mart here. I have made mention a few times of building a water park south of Wal Mart. Not a run of the mill one but to match the likes of Wet n Wild. What better draw from all over the Inland Empire, the Eastern suburbs of LA and North San Diego county then something special and different for this area. Combined with a major Theatre and restraurant complex in the Golden Triangle and now you will get those people to stay in the rooms, spend money here and bring in those tax dollars. We live in an area where people search out water activities 9 months a year. What better then a major water park? Just an idea.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 5:03:00 PM
A water park is a good idea Jeff. I just want to set you straight. I never advocated high density all along the 215/15 corridor. I have simply said that it has its place in the overall development of the city and that property owners have the right to develop their lots as zoned. I have also stated many times that clarity is need as far as the MU zoning. Stop painting my positions with such a false broad brush. Been There made many good points. I think he is correct that the large apartment complex is out of place at such a high profile and high traffic area. I think there should not be anymore high density south of Ivy. I do however think that the Washington Corridor is an ideal area for the mix of residential and high density. I think the traffic flow on the west side will improve dramatically once Murrieta and Temecula finally connect all of those dead end streets that should have been linked long ago.
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 5:27:00 PM
3:25 Before you take shots, polite though they may be, at the quality of an entry, check the facts. In spite of the obvious squeeze for space on Jefferson, the city has plans for eventual build-out at six lanes. It is on paper in black and white at city hall. Check it out with engineering. I have in my own files a copy of the traffic projections for the streets of Murrieta. It's right there. Six lanes. The anticipated eventual widening of Jefferson to six lanes has also been referenced in the local newspapers within the past year, I think when the eminent domain issue was going on. The fact that condos have been packed so close to the eventual street buildout plan is just another indictment of the foolish high density residential planning going on within this city. Don't forget, eventual wide streets are not the problem, because they accommodate traffic. It is the packing in of immense numbers of high density complexes which is going to make the streets a complex situation not only involving cars, but hoards of pedestrians as well. Don't assume in the future that just because a statement is bizarre sounding that it is incorrect. This is, after all, Murrieta.
Been There
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 5:47:00 PM
Been there,
Im sure I know who you are and you would recognize me. I just wanted to say I have seen the same 6 lane Jefferson on the city drawings. The widening they are doing right now is 4 plus a median but Ive seen long term plans for 6. I understand the post of 3:25:25. 6 does not appear realistic on the ground, but Ive seen plans that say 6 and I think long term outlook for traffic needs in the city would require 6 to handle the expected load of traffic. May be that the planners plan to be gone before the exhaust hits the fan. Hmmmm?
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 7:46:00 PM
Been there,
I was not taking a shot at your post, I was just giving my take at the massive size a six lane highway would take. Sorry for any confusion. If you say that the plan calls for a six lane highway then I believe it. I guess it will have to be six lanes for all the water that flows along Jefferson. We'll have to dodge the pot holes created from them.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Friday, November 18, 2005 10:24:00 PM
The six lane concept did exist and may still linger on some planning maps. But my take is that it will be curtailed for practical purposes because of the way the existing condo complexes were allowed to develop. At this point, a six lane Jefferson would result in condo dwellers rolling out of bed directly onto a street. Here's a hot tip: The future of the Washington, Guava, Murrieta Hot Springs route to the Triangle may become very, very interesting. And, the developer with the controversial apartment complex proposal may soon find it profitable to change course. It will be more a matter of timing than anything else.
xox
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Anonymous, at Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:00:00 AM
Well, you are all correct. I have personally known there was a Murrieta Blog for more than a year, but today is the first time I actually found it! First, I want to say thank you, Ed, for all your efforts to protect the citizens of Murrieta - our quality of life, our property values, and our safety.
I understand the drive for city revenue, but I think there is a better way to go about it than packing us all in like sardines. I know we are well above the city's plan on apartment density, yet we keep approving more. This ridiculous population explosion and subsequent over crowding of our roads, freeways, SCHOOLS, etc. will not raise our property values, and certainly wont protect our quality of life – health, safety and welfare. High home prices bring increased property tax revenue for the city. We are not a beach front community where high home prices are a given, so how do we get that? We do it by becoming an exceptional, complete, well rounded, "user-friendly" community. We need to be absolutely and unconditionally committed to protecting and enhancing open space. We need to preserve what is left of our open space for big business and parks. We need companies that can bring higher paying jobs. That will keep the OC and LA commuters here in Murrieta. Reducing freeways, and keeping sales tax dollars here. Live AND work in Murrieta. Further, we need to get many more parks. At the last council meeting a gentleman from the Greer Ranch area spoke about Lennar homes promising a 19 acre park as a selling point then informed the residents who purchased on that promise that they were instead going to add more homes. The residents have been fighting quite a battle and are now supposed to get at least a 2 or 3 acre park, but are understandably nervous about more tricks from Lennar homes. The same thing happened to my neighborhood on a smaller scale. We had been told a small parcel of land next to my home was going to be a green belt. We purchased our home in large part because of that. Now we are told the original builder sold it and there are 8 more homes coming instead. We are not within walking distance to ANY public parcel of grass. Further there are 200+ apartments being built in my backyard. The traffic on our residential street is going to be horrible. The city's decisions have successfully put the value of my home in the toilet.
It's time for another review of the General Plan. They need to get rid of all that disastrous MU stuff.
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Anonymous, at Saturday, November 19, 2005 4:21:00 PM
First to 4:21: 99% right on the money. But xox is only half right, and I want to set this matter straight because it is of vital importance. I have seen absolutely nothing that changes the very long-range projection for Jefferson from that of 6 lanes. The 4 lane (with alternating median/turn lane) currently under construction is 100% sufficient for full commercial use of Jefferson and its adjoining streets with MU-zoned properties (ASSUMING they are used for high-quality business purposes). This sufficiency changes dramatically when any one or more of three factors enter the equation: (1) In the long term, major arterial connections with other high volume streets. (2) In the short term, massive high density residential construction. (3) Again in the long term, massive increases in traffic congestion related to Jefferson becoming a parkway or thruway type of artery connecting one major semi-metropolitan area with another. None of these three have any relationship to the ideal tax-producing scenario for the commercial corridors, which is plain and simply retail commercial development. So COULD Jefferson POSSIBLY stay 4 lanes? Yes. But this would take very intelligent commercial corridor planning and approvals, which is not what we are seeing.
xox, for some reason, your post leaves me baffled. Where do you come up with your street planning information? Yes, condos have been built so close to the street that a planning nightmare will result if Jefferson ever goes to 6 lanes (and that IS a possibility if any of the above 3 factors kick in). If we’re around Murrieta 15, or 20 years from now we may see, because of present planning decisions, sidewalks hugging tight against residences like you find in some communities.
And guess what everyone? Factor (2) above is already happening. The commercial corridors of Murrieta are somehow being mutated into high density residential quagmires which are going to throw future community planning problems at the same city hall which allowed them to develop in the first place. The resulting problems will require a level of genius to solve that does not exist in this city government.
And xox, the bit about your “hot tip” is appreciated for the benefit of anyone who has never heard about it before, but it is old news. And I don’t think the mass residential profiteers care about any such commercial potential, because the high density profit margin is better for them even though it is big sales tax money out the window for the city. A cooling housing market may change this somewhat, but I doubt it will be soon or large enough to change the economics of greed.
To get the numerous high-quality parks into this town that 4:21 would like to see, and to buy the open space that could enhance life for generations to come, the one and only opportunity this town will ever have is right now, and it involves turning every square inch of what remains in and around our precious commercial corridors into HIGH QUALITY, HIGH TAX PRODUCING commercial businesses. This unique business-perfect area can either turn into a perpetual gold mine, or a perpetual tax drain.
I regret that it takes so many words to get this point across, but I don’t know how else to express it. Everyone on our city council needs to wake up quickly, or this once in a lifetime golden opportunity is going to go to financial hell in a high density residential handbasket.
Been There
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Anonymous, at Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:08:00 PM
4:21 and Been There,
You are talking my kind of talk. I have for months been asking for more parks and open spaces. I have been talking down the waste of tax dollars that happens when down sizing our commercial corridors occurs, especially if the results are high density living. We need to start making this rumble known, outside of this blog. If we don't the same results that have occurred over the last few years. Devlopers steamrolling us by buying the votes of some of our Councilmen.
4:21, Do you live in the Jackson and Nutmeg area? The 200 apartments being located just over the Wildomar border? If so I have been complaining about a park that small children can easily reach. The same park that I was told that would be in place as of now.
I applaud both of you for your contributions. We have to override the Van Haaster agenda of his return. We have to get rid of Seyarto and silence his defense avocates. We need to take back our town. Make it safe, inviting and enjoyable for all. I think that's why we all live here.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:33:00 PM
Seyarto and McAlister have sold our city out. Seyarto continues to be developers dream. He and his gopher need to be exposed for what they are doing and what they have done. It's just getting the word out, making people care about Murrieta. Spread the word about JL Kunkle's blog.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:57:00 PM
Two politicians in this town, AND - VERY IMPORTANT - our city management staff, are far more interested in kudos from the state housing authorities than they are in our children or our property values. For reasons related to federal and court imposed mandates and funding benefits, the state has to find ways to come up with bottom rung housing. Murrieta, because of the pliant nature of a large part of the city government, is considered a soft target. In the same way that it's hard to find a city willing to be a dump site of any kind, it's hard to find a dumping ground for bottom rung housing. Thanks to Seyarto, McAllister and city management, we've become that city. We're in the cross hairs for a developer assault from all fronts, including the courts. Heaven help us all, we have to be saved from our own local government.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 6:56:00 AM
Kudos from the state for sure (same kudos would come whether dems or repubs in power), but don't forget the warm fuzzy feeling the city leaders are getting from the future deep pockets political fundraising support of a dozen or so of the biggest mass housing developers in the country. If you think you can stop this from happening, good luck. I think the apartment developers are going to turn this town into something that rivals the population of China. As for me, I'm selling and getting out of here before gridlock makes an exit possible. I'll be reading about you guys and your insane city in the papers, but from another town.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:05:00 AM
Seyarto and McAlister's political ambitions have a link to both developement and pleasing state officials. Why do all of you think Seyarto has backed off this site. Do you think he had the will power to do it on his own? Republican, political and developement officials are why he is no longer among the posts here. He is a loose cannon that needed to be shut up and put back in line and just vote the will of developers. Youre right about the city oficials and chamber of commerce officials. This has all been set up by Stephenson and Van Haaster. This is their infrastructure. Beware of the upcoming candidates for city council. They will have them appear to come from among us but were are getting set up. They know that Seyarto will have a tough time.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:07:00 AM
If anyone has any way to spread the word about the important information being discussed in this website, please do it. The majority of people in this town don't have any idea that things are happening right now at city hall that will be making an enormous impact on their homes their lives and their property values. The time for action is right now because the developer propaganda blitz could start even before this year is over and next year this whole town is going to be under assault more and more every month as the election draws closer.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 11:19:00 AM
I think all of you who think Mr. Seyarto backed out of this blog because he was ordered to by a higher authority are way off the mark. You people tend to forget one of the fatal flaws of this blog which is accountability. All the anons, M.E. Jeff, Been There, and now 1stcavbill and Murrieta T are free to say anything without social retribution and they in no way can be held accountable for their assertions or accusations. One could say that a true coward hides behind anonomous names. If this blog is to ever have relevancy in this community then all of the above should come clean with their identities so we have an idea of who they are and what their agendas might be. Otherwise what is the purpose of Mr. Seyarto posting here when accountability is a one way street against those who reveal who they really are?
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 7:28:00 PM
Accusations? Rholmgren, please. It is 100% obvious that this town is under legal and political assault by high-density residential development interests, and all for the motives of private and political greed. You, sir, are being duped if you deny the obvious. And you are the patsy of those who would take gross advantage of this community. Look to the motives here... On one side, it is greed. On the other side, it is people trying to protect their families, their property values, and their home town. If you are playing devil's advocate, you are doing it well, because you are indeed advocating a very ugly cause.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:15:00 PM
Is this the same abuser asking everyone else to list their names and addresses. If he has the guts his next post will list his. Or then he is a yellow bellied coward, which I suspect he is. He either needs to do that or shut up. Only an ignorant fool could defend a liar like Seyarto. He has to be friends with him because reading on here I have never seen say one thing against him. And this is an idiot that defends apartment and condos.
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:21:00 PM
Okay Roy, I guess Im a coward.
Murrieta T
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:13:00 PM
But Rholmgren you are taking a position that is directly opposite the First Amendment. You say that those who post with fictitious names or anon exhibit a fatal flaw because they ". . . are free to say anything without social retribution and they in no way can be held accountable for their assertions . . . ."
But the 1st Amend's philosophical foundation is that the marketplace of ideas will expose those that are bad or second rate. Knowing the identity of the proponent does not provide much information towards evaluating that idea. However, if the person's identity is given, it does expose that person to "social retribution". This is why I have repeatedly objected to ad hominen arguments, i.e., addressing the person rather than the idea.
It seems to me that a consensus is forming that we need to preserve our commercial space. We need to focus a bit more on just who, or what, is our opposition.
The recall produced one fascinating result (besides recalling JvH). Dan Stephenson had to come out into the open and vigorously fight to maintain his control over Murrieta. I am certain that the Southwest County Taxpayers etc. did not want to be publicly exposed. But the Murrieta “cash cow” was threatened.
But Murrieta was already “lost” - to a great extent - before the Southwest group came to the fore. The question is what group - or combinations - were the instruments by which this ex officio power was exercised?
I think the answer is that the ex officio powers were organized under another “bogus named” group. In this post, we showed that the Southwest County Taxpayers for Responsible Government is a lie designed to throw residents off the scent. Similarly, a close examination of the Murrieta City Chamber of Commerce reveals that organization is a similar lie. I’ll back that up with another detailed post if Mr. Kunkle will allow me that opportunity.
I’m sure that the Chamber has been very actively involved and has influenced the City Council and especially the appointments to the GPAC committee and the City Planning Commission.
When you coalesce the ex officio power in the Chamber and wed it to City Hall and backed up with the local press and other elected officials, the development of the City is actually controlled by forces without reference to the residents' needs or desires.
In trying to protect our commercial property from greedy developers, we are challenging the power structure of this County. The Chamber is hooked in with the Republican party and both are hooked in to our City Council.
The same people who donated to the $600K anti-recall campaign also contribute generously to the local republican party. Don’t forget that the republican party broke with tradition by taking a partisan position in the recall election. I’m sure they thought they had to act to protect their developer contributors.
If we are to fight off the rape of our City’s remaining commercial space, we must know that Dan and his clones have already taken off the velvet gloves. They didn’t want to, but they had to. It won’t get any easier. The AC lawsuit shows that money is no object, there’s too much to yet be siphoned out of this City.
Someone asked earlier: “Ed, how about a Rescue Murrieta fund raiser?” Frankly, the last number of posts on this blog give me hope that there is a group of Murrietans – yes including Rholmgren - that understand that we cannot allow our commercial property to be stolen for the quick profits of a few absentee developers. We may have other differences, but they must be put aside in the interest of forming a Rescue Murrieta type response to save our City.
There’s more to say, but I’m going to begin work on the final draft of the next blog post on the Chamber.
Edward Faunce
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Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:20:00 PM
8:21 - Apartments and condos are not evil in and of themselves. Done rightly, logically planned in a non-harmful way, they can serve a legitimate purpose. But when the public is being abused for the sake of developer or political greed, then the evil appears. And in Murrieta, the evil of political greed is raising its ugly head.
Regarding Rholmgren - If "Rholmgren" is a real name, and not just a cleverly manipulated or slightly tweaked variation of a real name, then Mr. or Mrs. Rholmgren is not hiding behind a false name. If on the other hand Mr. or Mrs. Rholmgren is entirely or partly a name that is disguised or manipulated or false, then it is far worse than an obvious alias or an anon. At least, that is, for someone who is spewing hatred at people who do not clearly identify themselves. I will reserve judgement on this one until the truth comes out.
Mr./Mrs. Rholmgren, since you do not like anons and aliases, please clearly state whether your name is, in truth, exactly "Rholmgren" as you say it is. If so, someone owes you an apology.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:31:00 PM
R. HOLMGREN
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Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 6:26:00 AM
Roy? Roy Holmgren? Is that you? Didn't your mama teach you to be a nice boy? Where are you manners?
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Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 6:32:00 AM
Ed,
Of course it was the Republican party. It's about dollars for big business. You don't ever want to lose those major contributions do you. Using unethical tactics has been their calling card. Ethics or money? Let's see. It's not even a question that they have poured resources and dollars into the City Management, City Council and of course the Chamber of Commerce.
I was the one calling for a fund raiser and a "new" updated version of Rescue Murrieta. Maybe we call it "Save Murrieta". It's now time to do this. Trust me, this blog is read by all we oppose. They know that this is the only voice of the residents right now.
Just speaking up that the ethic problems start at the top, with the Republican party, flow into all branches of government offices and into the business branches of power and information will not end it.
Lets face it, these developers want to hit and run and count their money as they walk away from the nightmare they will leave. Seyarto and McAlister both have higher aspirations in County and State government. They will step on past when the devlopment dollars are no longer a factor. They have violated the ethics of the positions they hold. Does anyone have access to voting that has taken place over the last 3 years in the council concerning any development issues? To see which way Seyarto, McAlister and Van Haaster voted compared to the issue. Have they ever sided against a development issue? Where is our protection? Their vote has been bought and paid for by these businesses. Seyarto even stated in a post on here that he spent very little on the recall election out of pocket. Of course he didn't. The developers spent the money to keep him here in office.
It's the repeated message I have tried to send. We need to prevent Seyarto from being re-elected. We need to prevent Van Haaster from attempting a comeback. And we need to measure any candidate to the standards we set as someone who will step in and work for us, not working for the developers or the chamber or the Republican party.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 7:08:00 AM
Hey! Roy Holmgren took the mask off his fake name, and has come out of the closet of thin disguise. Some of us actually thought his name was Rholmgren. What fools we were to believe. I suppose if he wants to be really disingenuous, he could say all the letters were there. But that would really be emphasizing the deception, eh? Can't fool us twice, Roy. Can't have it both ways. At least we know the people with obvious screen names are aliases, and "anon" speaks for itself. That's honesty. But you, Roy... What a clever little devil you've been! If you want to go ahead and keep wearing your sorta yellow suit, that's OK. But every once in a while, for the new readers, mention your ID is a fake.
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 8:40:00 AM
The only thing that matters in any worthwhile discussion is the substance of what is being said. The cover of a book, the name of a speaker, the tag of an author of a blog entry are not a tenth as important as the ideas being put forth. In fact, a name can carry with it preconceived notions about a speaker or an author, and take away from the true substance of a discussion.
I personally enjoy reading the input of all this blog’s participants. Whether named, aliased, anon or anything else, any Murrieta participants can join the discussion. The information, emotion, political prejudices, and ideas all combine to stimulate thought on local issues. To me, this Murrieta blog is a place that’s alternately angry, humorous, and informative; but consistently thought provoking.
JL Kunkle’s blog has, I am sure, already become a firmly established part of the evolving political traditions of this young town. Any politician, community activist, or average citizen with thoughts and concerns will be missing the boat if they don’t jump in and take part.
I am grateful to Jeff, Ed Faunce, Rholmgren, Kelly Seyarto, JL Kunkle, and everyone else who has the community spirit necessary to log on, bring out their thoughts, take the inevitable abuse, and just keep on coming back. I think it’s a good learning experience for us all individually, and it’s good for the civic life of our town as a whole.
Tom Suttle
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 1:00:00 PM
I have been reading this blog for some time now and I just want to blurt in. I am an old timer here and moved here in the 80's. I just want to thank those who are standing up to the forces that are destroying our fair city. For a while there it seemed like Murrieta was going to be paved over corner to corner.Thank you Ed Faunce for giving us hope.I do not know who this Rholmgren person is but I do know that poeple with his ideas were destroying this town. We need more people like Jeff to stand up to these type of abusive people and take the power back from those who would develop every open space. Good Evening
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Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 4:43:00 PM
Most people reading this blog know the area of town I live in. They have even stated they have driven down my street to check on some of my complaints about houses being built across the street. My name is near my front door as I am proud to say where I live. They know the type of work I do as I have tried to use some of the same logic when writing my posts as I use in my daily life. But for everyone to list their full names would lead to more name calling, more ways to use the power of words, be it name calling or belittling of the persons employment. It would be an enabler to those who want to use fear of reprisals or harrassement or put downs or embarrassement of family to stop the postings of those that don't agree. We see it happening on this blog site and I believe some people have been driven off posting because of it. All posts are important. Whether eveyone agrees or disagrees. When Councilmen Seyarto posted on here, I felt the urge to never call him a liar nor challange his real life employment or his family. If I did anything it was challanging his Council ethics, because for lack of a better phrase he works for me and every person who pays taxes here. The same applies to Jack Van Haaster and Doug McAlister, all working for me and you. I feel I have that right because they are our employees and we have given the ultimate trust to watch our money and how it's spent.
Another person on here has gone over and above with his attacks. They have become disrespectful and rude, insulting as well as being uncalled for. I think from the above posts more people then I feel that way. I don't understand the need to attack someone's ideas with disrespect. A person like that then loses all credibility in what he says. I think one person said it correctly, you read the name and move on. But it's not the ideas he's presenting because many have had merit in my opinion, its the lack of respect that he has either not been taught or has turned his back on. All should be free to post here without disrespect to their persons/families/livelihoods/race. We won't all agree and may strongly disagree and have the right to challenge but without calling names. Calling names and belittling are for the mature adults in Washington or talk radio or TV, not for our community, that needs to find ideas that unite us. Let's find a way to make this city the diamond of the valley.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Monday, November 21, 2005 6:06:00 PM
Jeff why would you fear reprisals or embarrassment? I don't understand. I have known where you lived for at least 7 months now. I would be the first person to denounce any kind of personal reprisals. If anyone should fear reprisals Jeff it should be me. But I do not fear anyone in this community. Especially not the foul mouthed truth twisting RM types. You are in bad company Jeff. Your friends on here have the first names of Debbie, Barbara, Nancy, Robert, Petra, and now Tonya and more that I will name later. The majority of the posts here are from the venomous hardcore RMer's. It is like a one sided RM lovefest on here. Since the above named people are too cowardly to list their identies because, like you, they are probably afraid of "reprisals." I will for the time being not list their last names. I just do not understand why these people will not proudly stand by what they say. Could it be that they have hidden agendas?
Kudos to the RMer that finally got off their rear end and looked my name up in the phonebook.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:42:00 AM
Does anyone on here have a hidden agenda? LOL. Well, I know my agenda is to have the best community and City in the nation. Massive apartment and condo coplexes will not do it. If they are put in, it hurts my families abilty to move on our streets, it hurts my ability to use public facilities due to overcrowding and it will surely bring in more and more of an unwanted element into our community. Thats my agenda. My agenda is to have more tax dollars flowing into the city treasury. Commercial buildings instead of more people would help that. I would think every resident would want the things I just mentioned unless they profit off developers making money on the apartment complexes. We have a true need to end the buildup of these complexes now. I don't see how anyone can have an agenda that profits them personally except those tied to development or in the pockets of development like our two Councilmen. We need the attitude and arrogance of Seyarto and McAlister off the Council and we need to stop City money from being spent on the Chamber of Commerce. The Murrieta Chamber of Commerce is not a friend to the residents of Murrieta.
As I said, these abusers of name calling and belittling of normal residents come from people who pattern themselves after the teachings of the conservative Republican party. Roy here is not going to name any of the bloggers right now. Who gives a flying ---- whoever Roy names. Only Roy. He wants to hold that as a power over your heads. Roy doesn't realize that when you google his name its right on top. 10 year olds know how to do that.
He thinks that hearing their Father called a coward or Benedict Arnold doesn't effect a person's family, their children, their neighbors, co-workers? He calls anyone else a foul-mouth. LOL. Venomous?? LOL LOL. He wants to use this fear....you are unpatriotic, love it or leave it, you don't love Murrieta, why did you move here, coward, terror sympathizer. I could go on and on. People like this person are so weak inside that all they have is their own fear. That fear drives them to try to scare others. Don't back down from this person. It is the weakness of his convictions and the weakness of his failing ideology.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:24:00 AM
Rholmgren, you said: ". . . Especially not the foul mouthed truth twisting RM types."
I have been the official spokesman for RM for well over a year. I don't recall ever being accused of being "foul-mouthed" before. Furthermore, I have attended almost all the RM meetings and can say that there is no "foul" language used.
I understand that you think that those with whom you disagree are "twisting the truth." But, that assumes that you alone can identify the "truth." Still a "truth-twisting" charge is within the realm of acceptable public debate.
I must, however, challenge your charge that RM's are "foul mouthed."
Edward Faunce
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:42:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Roy will be back apologizing to you in a few minutes as you identified your political background. I appreciate your opinion. All I can say is that an example of the Republican party is our Vice President contributing to Tom Delay in a fund raiser. This is the same White House that's not allowed to comment and support anyone on the Plame matter, yet here is the VP contributing to an indicted politician. Would the conservative party attack Bill Clinton if he contributed to Michael Jackson's defense? Come on! You and everyone else would be on blog sites attacking.
OK....do you think that every Senator and every Congressman has the exact same access to intelligence as the President? If you do your dead wrong. Could the White House, twist and spin intelligence before it got to the Intelligence committee. YES. So are they Monday morning quarterbacking this. NO. This White House has spun the truth. Lied point blank to America. Libby lied to the FBI. Look at what happened when Joe Wilson did accuse them of spinning intelligence. They spun the truth, using a reporter, then hitting all the Sunday talk shows the same day to attack him. They out and out lied to everyone. Roy will get on here and spin the information from the Rush Limbaugh show, but not one Congressman has said that they found any WMD'S. Maybe Roy is talking to Chalabi and Judith Miller. Then there is the Head of Intelligence getting a medal for his performance after total failing on intelligence. A payoff to keep quiet? Colin Powell quit because he was misled. His assistant just came out and said so. So, re-writing history, which again is the wording that Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh use, NO. Democrats are asking the questions that need to be asked, as we fail in Iraq.
So here is a question for you. Tell me, was knocking off Suddam worth 2100+ American dead? 15,000 injured and damaged? 300 Billion dollars+? Tell me why? Do you really care if some people living in the desert are living a Democracy? Then do you care about the Sudan? North Korea? Syria? A hundred more places? But those places dont have oil do they? So why is this war worth it. And we are fighting about 3% Al Queda in Iraq and the rest are Iraqi insurgents. Residents of Iraq, not terrorists. So don't say we are fighting Al Queda over there to keep them from coming here. If they had the desire, they'd be on planes. We are there for oil period. Nothing more. The American people don't care about Iraq, and as more and more casualties come home to be buried it will get worse. But maybe you know something special, a reason why the war has been good? Change my mind. They are an Islamic society and will probably move more toward the Theocracy of Iran then ever being a red, white and blue, free society.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:16:00 PM
MurrietaT,
And you came back and complimented Councilmen Seyarto, Roy's hero. On Seyarto, if you have been reading this blog for months, you would have seen that this man is not after a cohesive Council. He is for encouraging profit for developers. Why do you think they tried to keep him in office. Ive said this a hundred times on here. They spent 600K to keep him from being recalled for one reason. To assure his vote and his defense tactics on every issue that involves development over running everything that is left. He is a mouthpiece, they don't need to lobby, because he and McAlister are bought and paid for. Check the voting pattern? Check every issue that has come before the board. In what instance did Seyarto or McAlister vote for the residents and against a developer.....ummm NEVER. They just tried to make it so that a resident with a legitimate grip could not get a Councilmen to freely challenge a planning decision. Why. They don't want challenges to the people that paid for them to stay in office. Seyarto may be a hard worker and he may answer your complaints but he would never help you if it came to a developer issue. I told him that homes were not being completed after 18 months across the streeet from my home. He said they would be completed in September. What month is this? I can go on and on. Just go back and read and you will see a good glimpse of the man in his posts. Why do you think he's no longer posting. He was told to stop shooting his mouth off.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 2:28:00 PM
I just want to take a moment to ask anyone reading this to write their Senator in Washington and demand that bill S1086 be brought to the floor for a vote. It is a bill that will create a National database for sex offenders. There are currently states like New York that have no database of their own and as a result there are over 150,000 sex offenders with whereabouts unknown. For more details go to John Walsh's web site at amw.com. Look under the "features" tab.
Murrieta T and Ed Faunce I will take back part of the foul mouthed comment where you two are specifically concerned. I was directing the comment at others in your organization, and they know who they are .
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 6:21:00 PM
kiss kiss kiss, youre so full of crap rholmgren. you are vitually worthless. jeff called you on it and predicted youd apologize. now, if a republican attacks a member of youre family but they back the war in iraq, what do you do. kiss their butt.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:46:00 PM
Jeff relevant conversations are a 2 way street. Under this current format those who are anonomous have nothing to lose for their comments while those using their own names are accountable for theirs. The scale is unbalanced. It seems that most of you out there feel that K.S. was ordered to shut up. Where's the proof? Who posted it first? Who are they? Do we know if the anonomous person has an agenda against K.S. and is just throwing the charge out there to see if it will stick?
Murrieta T most of the harshness of my posts are based on the harshness I have encountered on other blog sites. There isn't a poster here that even come close to the sledgehammer type posts that are brutily thrown around on other political blogs. The polarity between groups is getting intensely fiercer and the rhetoric is the worse I've ever seen. I will try to tone it down a little. I just think it is a little cowardly for members of a supposedly powerful local PAC such as RM to hide behind screen names. I do respect Ed Faunce for sticking his neck out the way he does. I disagree with some of his stances, but I do listen to his position. Currently I think that some members on the Council are fighting the right battle in the wrong place. (The Alexander issue) The high density line should be drawn at those apartments going in at the corner of Jefferson and Murrieta Hot Springs. It seems that some people are letting their egos get in the way of good judgment. Those 400 units are out of place and should be stopped. Although I think it is too late.
Jeff I tried to google my own name, but none of the hits were me and many of them had different first names. Are you fibbing again Jeff? I will try to google Jeff and see what I come up with.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:16:00 PM
7:46 you are just another example of a lame poster. If I am worthless then you are on the ground licking the soles of my feet. I did not apologize because T was Republican. I just felt that I needed to focus the insult in the right direction. Now go and wipe the dirt off your tongue.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:21:00 PM
Here is someone that has called me names and now I'm helping him. Google r holmgren murrieta. Call the phone company and ask for your name to come off. Why do us residents have to be sledgehammers. We are not going to change the world here. We just care about where we live.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:53:00 PM
Jeff the big question is: Where will the Democrats be if the war on terror succeeds? And remember Jeff the war was not just about WMD's. It was about those aiding and abetting TERRORISTS. Not only Al Queda Terrorists. It is called the war on terror for a reason. There were 2 proven terrorist training camps in Iraq prior to the war and they were bombed to oblivion at the war's onset. Saddam was also supporting terrorism in Isreal buy paying the families of Palistinian suicide bombers $25,000. Bush said after 911 that we were going to go after any nation that harbored and aided TERRORISTS (not only Al Queda) and he is doing exactly that. I want him to finish the job. You are on the side of the enemy. I am on the side of the United States winning this war. There is not a John Kerry in between position Jeff. The Democrats are currently closer to being traitors than being patriots. They are a National embarrassment. Why do they want to follow the same strategies that lead the U.S. being a war loser in Vietnam? Why are they saying treacherous things on foreign soil while our troops fight a few hundred miles away? And again Jeff stop with the Rush take. I have not heard the man in two weeks. Jim Rome is much more interesting during football season.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:59:00 PM
I did the google Jeff and still no first name. Now where on google is it? Forget it it does't matter
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:03:00 PM
r space holmgren space murrieta
Stop with the Rush thing????? We have all asked you to treat everyone with respect and you can't be human enough to do that and I should limit myself. This is the man that tells my neighbors that I am a coward? My sons could hear it from the neighbors and you have the nerve to tell me to stop mentioning your devotion to Rush Limbaugh. Then you come on here and tell us about being a sledgehammer.
Yes, thats all I read about in every writers column that the reason we went to war in Iraq is over terrorist camps. Every country has terrorists camps. Then if that is his reason, why aren't we racing into Syria, not three years later but now. It is not even a realistic excuse. Youve made up reasons that Bush never used. Yes, he did use Al Queda but we now know that was made up in someones head. And yes, no matter what Fox News tells you there was a bi-partisian commission that came to that conclusion not Al Franken. Who trained the pilots of the planes that crashed into the twin towers? Us....should we bomb Orlando?
You want to stay there for your pride?? That is what cowards do. The Chickenhawks running this country can afford pride but the sons and daughters of American families that are over there cannot afford it. There family members come home in body bags, or without arms and legs. Its fun playing DOOM but this is real life with very real men.
Then 70% of Americans are on my side. Slowly pull our troops out. Your thinking is warped. But then again, you never served. All you can possibly understand is a video game. Cowards are those that send men to die for their pride and for power. There is no pride in death, there is just death. Ask all the brave men who died all around me on Hill 256.
President Roosevelt said in 1918 during the First World War: "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Robert A. Taft, "Mr. Republican," took the same line: 'I believe that there can be no doubt that criticism in time of war is essential to the maintenance of any kind of democratic government..... Too many people desire to suppress criticism simply because they think it will give some comfort to the enemy.... If that comfort makes the enemy feel better for a few moments, they are welcome to it as far as I am concerned because the maintenance of the right of criticism in the long run will do the country more good than it will do the enemy, and it will prevent mistakes which might otherwise occur." Take that!!!
Both statements are on memorials in Arlington Cemetery. I guess thats a graveyard of traitors to you!!
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 22, 2005 10:27:00 PM
Congratulations to Mayor Enochs and Councilman Ostling for the success of their courage in standing up to the lawsuit of a developer whose only interest in this town is to make a profit and then leave. Shame on Seyarto and McAllister for supporting a developer who would sue those who have the courage to protect the town in which we live. And Mr. Gibbs, next time don't let the big develoment jerks intimidate you just by raising the threat of a legal challenge. You are better than that.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 2:29:00 PM
2:29,
You're right congratulations to our two Councilmen. They stood up to a devloper and won. But it was not just a wim for them but for all of this City. It shows developers that they can't just come in here and steam roll us. I know the terrible duo Roy and Seyarto got on here when this lawsuit first happened and predicted many more to follow and the city was now in dire problems thanks to Mayor Enochs. But this shoves that argument right back in thier faces. Doom and gloom of upcoming lawsuits....but that was just an example of the Van Haaster agenda surfacing. Well, Ostling and Enochs overcame the developer. Shame on Seyarto for trying to use the same reasoning to push the developers agendas when complaining about the City Attorney and voting on the AC development before this ruling. Now both of these Councilmen can vote. Instead of a slap on the end for Seyarto and McAlister we need to give them the boot.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 4:47:00 PM
I wonder if Rick Gibbs can change his vote on December 6th or is he bound by his agreement with Alexander? Just from reading the P.E. awhile ago I thought it said that they have the option to sue again if he changes his vote, but since the court ruled against them is he in a better position? I guess this is more of a legal question towards Ed.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:04:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Thanks for responding. One thing I have to ask you as you soon reasonable enough. Why, everytime I give an opinion against a conservative politician do all conservatives come back with the same style of arguments. Instead of giving me examples of why Delay or Libby were wrong to be indicted by the Federal government, they just attack Democrats instead. There is no meat to your argument, just attack liberals. LOL. Especially the Clintons. Bill Clinton is just an old President now. He is out of office, and when he was in office, knowing that Iraq had all these WMD's he still didn't think it was enough to take us to a pre-emptive strike and war? Why do you attack others telling me what they did or didnt do? Tell me why very high ranking conservatives are being indicted, the President isn't believed by far more then half the country? Don't tell me what happened in the 90's, we are more then halfway through the 2000's. And yes, any politician be it Democrat or Republican taking advantage of the citizens of this country should be put in jail for double what someone in the normal sector gets and if they lie and mislead the nation, and soldiers or government officials die they should be strung up on national TV and have their privates cut off.
Now don't talk about the media of this country. Not one prime time News agency sports TV anchors that give their own theories or commentaries as Fox News, the most watched cable channel. NBC, ABC and CBS anchors nor the reporters come on and slant the news in a one direction as FOX NEWS does. Once in a while one will mistakenly slant one subject, normally getting caught. But Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Britt Hume and all the conservative guests from conservative think tanks get on their and spin the truth in any direction Karl Rive dictates. Then you have MSNBC with Scarborough and a few others spinning away. The only counter the liberals have is Olbermann. Everything else is very moderate with no opinion or very conservative. So don't talk media spin. No one reads the newspaper anymore when the internet is free.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:12:00 PM
Jeff I will bet you $100 that this time next year that Plamegate and the Rove/ Libby issue will be proven to be just a bunch of bull. I will throw in another hundred when the war is won and you are proven wrong. Murrieta T I am humbled by your commentary. Good job.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 6:32:00 PM
Happy Thanksgiving everyone, enjoy your families and time together.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:04:00 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to one and all, even to Mr. Rholmgren who hates the anons, from one of the anons.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 23, 2005 8:02:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Your last quote is an excellent quote as I do believe in some wars. A war has to have a goal at the end that is achievable and the war has to be worth the sacrifice. I once long ago believed in a war and then found out it was not a war that could be won. I stayed the course for my brothers not the cause. Afganistan was a war that we could have completed and won given the right amount of troops. Iraq can never be won because no matter what we do we will always be an enemy there. The longer we stay, the more hatred that will develop for us. People that we have given the government to don't really want us there, they want that power we allow them to have but nothing more. They don't have our values, but we shouldn't expect them to. You cannot win a war of insurgency. The Germans could never defeat the French and live in peace had they wanted to in WWII and I'm not talking Nazi's I'm talking theory.
So if you think that I am unpatriotic for believing that we cannot win this war, you'd be wrong. It's my duty to question. It's my duty to make logic of facts. I am not a Democrat that hates Republicans or conservatives. Rather I don't want to think in a tunnel visioned manner, where everything one ideology does is right, because that is not thinking with a clear head. Saying that all of these unethical things that have happened are because liberals are making up stories would be to think in that tunnel visioned manner. I do believe that the Clinton's were involved in shady dealings in the Whitewater scandal. No doubt. And when someone's ethics are challenged 9 times in one year like Tom Delays then there is truth to some if not all of it. Let's just look at his admitted best friend, Jack Abramoff. This guy is the ultimate criminal and you don't think that Delay has been involved too? The Hammer.....come on? Dick Cheney has not been involved with twisting the truth and manipulating intelligence for this war? Again...come on? That Bush the figure head didn't get pushed out in front of America to sell Cheney and Rove's war? What about having three national security warnings within three months of an election to put fear into the minds of the American people that they could only be protected by one man, then, no warnings for 13 months. Is that logical? We are not being manipulated? I just ask that people step out of their tunnels and try to see things in a broader sense. It may save the life of a Marine that lives down the street from you. Wouldn't that be more valuable to you then proving a point. We will have to stay in Iraq for years and years but can never win, unless you feel that gaining oil is our purpose. What if the Iraqi government decides to ally with Iran and kick us out and bring in a Theocracy? Since they will be a Democratic society do they not have the right to choose that path, or do we attack them again and force them to be the 51st state? I don't have these answers and neither does anybody else, but it is a highly explosive situation that this country doesn't need or if you listen to the people want. They want to secure this country, the borders and cities. They want that 300 billion spent here. Look at New Orleans where the President promised in a speech to rebuild. Very little is being done. All I ask is people get out and think for themsleves and not let Karl Rove, James Dobson and Dick Cheney think for them. Look at the change for the worse since 2000. War, inflation and gas prices, infrastructure failing such as FEMA, a loss of Allies abroad, massive ethic problems, the countries structure being run by the evangelical right, job losses (GM). Is this freedom? I am not for the Democrats to take over, I am for a man like John McCain. But I am for accountability. But let's leave Clinton out of things unless the conservatives are that frightened of Hilary that they are obsessed. I don't want her to be President but could things get any worse? I don't envy conservatives as they have little if anything to be proud of. You cannot get up there and tell me all 70% of Americans that think something is terribly wrong with the White House are wrong?
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 5:21:00 AM
Murrieta T I know that I am listed in the phone book. The listing is OK by me. I knew that someone would call me out if I raised the anon issue. I just cannot believe Jeff keeps trying to say that a Google search reveals my first name. I have tried to do it the way he says ,but I keep getting only an R.
Why is Alexander the target? Their complexes are not very big, and they are being built in areas that are zoned for that type of development. Their locations also brings a good mix of housing to the area. I cannot see what the alternative would be for these lots besides another developer building a similar type of project. Again I wonder why is Alexander the target and why is there not a greater uproar about the 400 units that are going in at the corner of Jefferson and Murrieta Hot Springs?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:33:00 AM
Jeff you keep citing that 70% number. Please let the rest of us know where you got it from. It would help to know who did the survey and where thety drew their smple from. ( From the looks of it they probably drew the sample straight off DNC voter registration data base.)
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:38:00 AM
If someone harps continually proof needs to be shown to be credible. Phonebook results for r holmgren murrieta
R Holmgren, (909) 677-, , Murrieta, CA 92562 Google Maps Yahoo! Maps MapQuest
Roy Holmgren, (909) 677-, 23775 , Murrieta, CA 92562 Google Maps Yahoo! Maps MapQuest
Here is the listing. I removed the key numbers and words
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 9:58:00 AM
Well it is good to know that the address and area code are wrong. I am still trying to Google "Jeff" but unfortunately there are just too many "Jeffs" in the world and the search has proved useless.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:05:00 AM
Link to the Wall Street Journal poll, I don't believe this is a liberal leaning paper. http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB113216347138199155-5Z1Ri_om8ITUbV_jD2bx6maguMY_20061116.html?mod=tff_main_tff_top
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:17:00 AM
Rholmgren - I think Alexander is mostly symbolic. Just shows the multi family developers will use any weapon to get their way(lawsuits, heavily funded propaganda, paying the ad bills for political campaigns, etc). You are right that the big test for Murrieta will be the 400+ unit monstrosity. I predict they'll try to hide these "projects" by shifting emphasis to the smaller part of that project which is commercial. But that will be like a two thousand pound gorilla trying to hide behind a pretty mask. I've ID'd myself with a 'tag' on this site before, but my computer's firewall is now throwing up screens showing intrusion attempts that seem to be related to my log-ins to this site, so I'm going purely anonymous for a while. I do understand the irritating nature of dealing with anonymous entries, so I apologize.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:26:00 AM
I can tell who you are T.I understand the symbolic nature of the Alexander issue. I guess it represents the old symbolism over substance arguement. I would rather see everyone throw their resources at that 400 unit complex, which is being developed at part of the commercial and retail gateway into Murrieta, instead of making a symbolic statement that in the long run probably will not change the type of projects that will ulimately be built at the two Alexander locations. The line should now be drawn so that only retail/ commercial are developed south of Ivey(In general).I will wait until the next council meeting to see how this Alexander issue pans out. I am certain that if it goes against the developer that the litigation will continue.
How many other projects have been approved by the Planning Commision and denied by the Council?
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Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:14:00 AM
It is amazing how people like to forget history like it is old news. They forget that it is continuous and without the artificial cut-off points that elections represent. There were too many unanswered Terrorist attacks against the the U.S. during Clinton. With every success more confidence is gained and ambitions increase in scale. It is the same in life and terrorism. I believe in the old analogy that National policy decisions are similar to a giant ship in the ocean. Most of what is happening today was based on policy decisions made 2 or 4 years ago. The same could be said that much of what happened to Bush in year one in office was based on Clinton decisions in years prior to Bush's inaugoration. Our history shows that if we have a National will to accomplish a goal anything is possible.How many other countries are free today as a result of the United State's actions? If we had entered previous conflicts with the same attitudes and policies that Democrats represent today; this country would probably be lead by an authoritarian regime.
Happy Thanksgiving. Will everyone please say a prayer for my friends and family (and all troops) overseas in Iraq? They need our support for victory not appeasement.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 12:41:00 PM
Hey Jeff your post makes it seem like the world is falling apart. I have a friend named Jeff who is in New Orleans supervising part of the rebuilding effort. Jeff you are dead wrong on when you say that very little is being done there. My friend said things are moving real life fast and there has been alot of progress although the progress would be considered slow by Hollywood movie standards.Even with the war and inflation and the GM layoffs Jeff the economy is humming, and I have never been more optimistic. General Motors is in a bad position. If I were them I would move more of their manufacturing capacity overseas. There are just too many costs that are making manufacturing a car uncompetitive with other overseas competitiors. Gas prices are also falling fast aren't they? I read a study by an economist recently that stated that gasoline, when adjusted for inflation, has been averaging a price of around $2.00 a gallon for 50 years. Why complain about high gas prices? Market forces will either force us into smaller and more economical cars or gas prices will stabilize once we get a clue and build more refinery capacity.
Jeff did you know that the Democrats think that we should being modeling ourselves after the current European model? Did you also know that since the 1970's Europe has created 4 million jobs while the U.S has created 57 million jobs. They need to be more like us, and we should not follow the Democrats as they try to lead us down the road of Europe's failed socialized and stratified economic model.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:29:00 PM
Clinton failed to get Bin Laden, again show me facts, not Sean Hannity's version but government documents. If the Delay excuse works for you then show me the site that states that Clinton had Bin Laden, that he was in custody. We know what happens if he wasn't. Now if you want to go to failure, the senior Bush let Hussian stay in power and EVERYTHING that's happening today is because of that. But we can't go back and quarterback failed philosophies. Its today that matters. What happened before didn't lead to more terrorist attacks.
I don't understand how you connect terrorists to insurgents. It's amazing. Like I said in other posts, it has been noted that less then 10% are Al Queda. The rest are citizens, terribly misguided by religious zealots, power hungry tribal leaders. So you think that all the insurgents in Iraq want to come to the US and blow up our treasures. Wow. Far out. You say this is the war on terror, then why didn't we get the culprit. We turned our attention on something completely different. Iraq had no air force, the tanks were in shambles for lack of parts. The artillery was aging and limited. How many rockets did they have, very few. We had inspectors on the ground and I didn't hear of any of them being killed by "terrorists". It is really a lame excuse. We went over there and stirred the pot, they added the terrorist ingredient as they come in from all Middle Eastern countries.
Rholmgren thinks that if you question you don't support the troops, another bunch of conservative cocka. I support my brothers 100%, visiting hospitals, giving generously to families that have a member overseas. I served, for 4 years in combat, thats serving my brothers. I don't hear any service from him. I see him leaning back in his chair pushing an agenda, instead he should be supporting the troops by spending all the hours he types on here, working for the red cross or visiting VA hospitals, babysitting for families that have members away from home. Thats supporting the troops. Putting a yellow ribbon on your car doesn't help them at all. I was in combat when this nation was rebelling against the Vietnam war, the peace rhetoric had no effect on any troops. They just did the job. It was coming home and being discriminated that brought down morale. 90% of the soldiers in Vietnam HATED being there. Yes, there were crazed zealots who loved killing but they were the few.
So ride in your car shopping tomorrow Roy with your stickers, but those guys over there just want to come home and see their families. Thats the support they want. They have no goals. They have no cities to capture. They are just sitting ducks, waiting for a roadside bomb to blow up and take a limb or two. Don't talk to me about war. LOL. What did Tom Berenger say in the movie Platoon. Death, what do you know about death. That movie outside of the last battle scene was very true to life.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 1:42:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Yes, let me explain. Insurgents have used terror to attack our soldiers. But 90% are people of Iraq who were ex-soldiers and political leaders that were ruthless subjects of Hussian. But these are not the Al Queda terrorists that want to attack America all over the world. These are Iraqis that want power back in Iraq. I don't think the French Resistance in WWII were heading to attack Germany. They wanted to free their land and people from invaders. We may think we are right, that we have the right to attack countries and establish are own form of government but it doesn't change the fact that to some Iraqis we are just invaders. So there are different types of terrorists. Iran's people didn't swarm to America during the hostage situation. Yet they committed terror. That's my reasoning. Iraqis are not going to line up in divisions in the open and attack us, there only weapon is to disrupt and kill and the fear that comes from everywhere.
All I want is a plan to leave. A plan doesn't mean that we leave tomorrow. But as you say, if Democracy is to work, Iraq must start defending herself just like we did when we overthrew King George. We didn't have any help, we had determination. If Iraq doesn't have this determination today, they may never have it. Democracy has to be wanted not taught. I just don't see the desire burning in the hearts of the majority of iraq people. Their culture may have trouble with Democracy. We shall see.
Dinner time.....more later tomorrow on Vietnam.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 2:55:00 PM
Jeff the majority of the insurgents you are mentioning are NOT Iraqis; They are terrorists from other countries. Even if you are right and these people are violent former Saddam loyalists who are attacking our troops then they deserve to die. The term "chickenhawk" that is used by you is a slap in the face to the majority of Americans who never served in the military and yet support our troops.If you somehow think that Veterans should have extra rights as citizens than the rest of us let me know. I honor the service of Veterans, and I support those who serve now. Jeff you of all people should know what it feels like when you return home hated by the public. Why would you promote positions that may lead the public down the same shameful path of Vietnam?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 6:57:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Almost every source you have listed are conservative web sites, Newsmax, the Washigton Times, The National review, ect. Again, I don't see any one of these sites saying that Bin Laden is in custody, waiting to be handed over to US and Clinton says NO. I see speculation and assumtions. But even if it is all true, how does this mean that Bush is a great Commander in Chief? What is the argument. Clinton let Bin Laden live. OK.....What did Bush do when he turned his back on Afganistan. Do you think Clinton knew Bin Laden was going to take out the twin towers? Bush knew he did and still pulled resources away. You haven't come back to me with anything for me on the elder Bush? Why we had three terror alerts and none since last years elections? I am not having to defend Clinton, if he failed he failed, but who cares is my point. Only conservatives because they have no defenses for todays failures except attack a President of six years ago. Had Bush lost, it would have been two Presidenst ago. Who cares. 6 years ago. 2 years ago OK...but not 6. Defend today. What counts is now and tomorrow.
Roy.....I have a couple of rights you won't have. I served and earned a special respect for as long as I live. Your respect of my beliefs and to express them anywhere and everywhere without retailiation by someone who has never put his life on the line for his country. If I was to go on this site and post after post called you a liar, a traitor, a Benedict Arnold for your beliefs it would be acting like a disrespectful child. It's what kids that are frustrated that they cannot when a game or this case an argument do. I earned that respect, by putting my life on the line for you. You haven't earned that respect, but as a grown man, I respect your right to express respectful opinions. It is not only me that sees this child talking and saying whatever comes out of his mouth because he has no control but every post on the subject. This site is read by many and I haven't seen one person come on here and say, go Roy, call people cowards. You are wrong and know you are wrong. I have no right to call you a coward because you have chosen to not join the military. It is your right of choice. But, for you to attack others for doing and expressing themselves freely, the freedom that I gave my blood for is disgraceful to all veterans everywhere. My duty as a citizen is to question my President. It is your right to defend him. You need to grow into a man, instead of being a spoiled child as your posts suggest. Because you go onto sites where people belittle others and use foul language doesn't mean I'll let it happen here to me. So do I and all veterans have special rights. You bet. I also have other financial rights and benefits you don't enjoy. Spend a little more time researching the word respect in the dictionary and less time listening to conservative talking points. You can call me liberal, a Democrat or other none disrespectful names, but when you have the nerve to question my patriotism because I use the right to question this White House, you have stepped over the line. Serving during war, doesn't end when you get out, it lasts EVERY DAY for the rest of your life as you relive the horrors of war in your memory. When you grow up and understand that, then you have earned the right to understand what a real coward is. This site is everyday residents of Murrieta trying to make the community and the world a better place. It helped oust a crooked politician and maybe another soon.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:03:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Agreed, it's hard to make points online. Like I said, I'm not a Bill Clinton fan and he was no military genius but I strongly disagree that Bush is. Another time and another place.
Yes, I would love to have you read back on Seyarto's past posts on here and maybe you will see why he has been told to get off here before he alienates too many people.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Friday, November 25, 2005 3:52:00 PM
Jeff I meant everything I said in past posts. You are what you are and the future will prove that it was cowardly to follow the path of Democratic talking points and Appeasement. I think I am done with this subject for a while too.
Does anyone know at what stage that 400 unit complex is now? Also Murrieta T how far are the apartment building setbacks off of your back fence. Are all the units 3 stories? I was looking around town at other complexes and there should probably be an increase in the minimum setback.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, November 25, 2005 9:03:00 PM
Roy,
Shows what a kind of person you are and reflects the way you were raised and by who. Yes, I'm done too.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Friday, November 25, 2005 10:06:00 PM
Murrieta T,
No thanks needed.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 6:58:00 AM
Murrieta T I was at WarmSprings Middle School a couple of weeks ago for the John and Ken thing. I this complex to be located Southeast of there? It also sound like really poor planning. I was thinking that it was on a lot level to you. I can only imagine how awful it would be to have a clustered complex overlooking houses from high ground. It sounds bad. And Date St. is going to be French Valley Pkwy? That is a bad joke. For some reason I pictured the street running through a commercial area and that made sense. It may sound harsh but if I were in your shoes I would move. I faced a simillar situation in my last house. It backed up to Jackson and had a view of a park. Ten years ago it was a great location, and in many ways it still is, but the traffic noise from Jackson grew louder by the year and the time came for me to buy new and quieter digs. I made sure that my present purchase had permanent features all around it. I have no worries now about future traffic increases or nearby projects affecting the ambiance of my new house.I learned my lesson from the other house.
Jeff your 10: 06 comment was so stupid that I almost did not respond. I am not going to let you bash my parents like that! I ws raised by a greeat pair of people. My father is a veteran like yourself. It does not surprise me that however that you would post such an ignorant statement. It just follows a long line of ignorance in your posts. My father just turned 70 yesterday and I am so happy he is still around. He is a man of extremely high morals and charachter.It may seem hard to believe but the man can on a pretty regular basis post a golf score under his age ( 67 68 etc). Pick a local course and he has golfed under his age there. Pretty amazing. Anyway Jeff that was a good low blow. It never even occurred to me to attack the character of your family or parents. Good One.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:29:00 AM
Roy,
You're right I don't know your parents. But we have only your personality flaws to judge your family by. The same way that people judge me by what people say about me.
I was making my point. You are a very flawed individual with a lot of hatred inside. Children call names. Adults talk about things. When someone acts as a child and is immature and can't hold back their mouth from belittling others especially for their beliefs I find it amazing that they themselves don't understand what they are doing. I think one person called you an abuser and I totally agree. You get a kick out of abusing people from behind your keyboard. Anyone who calls me names or accuses me of being something that I am the complete opposite of, deserves to be looked at as a child who doesn't understand the word respect. Like I said, either you were taught to be disrespective or you chose to make fools of your parents by doing the opposite of what you were taught.
If you are a Christian then you would know calling names no matter what the subject is against God's teachings. You can stand by everything you say but it makes you and what you say lack credibility.
I think from how proud you are of your folks you are the latter and make people think they are as disrespectful as you act. But maybe you should ask them if calling adults names when they have not attacked your name is the proper and mature way of handling your feelings.
But then again listening to the talk shows that push your agenda and life style I know that you just copied not only the talking points but their personalities. Isn't what Jim Rhome does? Didn't I see a former QB kick his butt for calling him names. Jim Everitt. Thats what happens when someone acts and talks like they are two years old.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 11:45:00 AM
Christmas Poem
Twas the night before Christmas
He lived all alone
in a one bedroom house made of
plaster and stone.
I had come down the chimney
with presents to give,
and to see just who
in this home did live.
I looked all about,
a strange sight I did see,
no tinsel, no presents,
not even a tree.
No stocking by mantle,
just boots filled with sand,
on the wall hung pictures
of far distant lands.
With medals and badges,
awards of all kinds,
a sober thought
came through my mind.
For this house was different,
it was dark and dreary,
I found the home of a soldier,
once I could see clearly.
The soldier lay sleeping,
silent, alone,
curled up on the floor
in this one bedroom home.
The face was so gentle,
the room is such disorder,
not how I pictured
a United States soldier.
Was this the hero
of whom I 'd just read?
Curled up on a poncho,
the floor for a bed?
I realized the families
that I saw this night,
owed their lives to these soldiers
who were willing to fight.
Soon round the world,
the children would play,
and grown-ups would celebrate
a bright Christmas day.
They all enjoyed freedom
each month of the year,
because of the soldiers,
like the one lying here.
I couldn't help wonder
how many lay alone,
on a cold Christmas eve
in a land far from home.
The very thought
brought a tear to my eye,
I dropped to my knees
and started to cry.
The soldier awakened
and I heard a rough voice,
"Santa don't cry,
this life is my choice;
I fight for freedom,
I don't ask for more,
My life is my God,
my country, my Corps."
The soldier rolled over
and drifted to sleep,
I couldn't control it
I continued to weep.
I kept watch for hours,
so silent and still
and we both shivered
from the cold night's chill.
I didn't want to leave
on that cold, dark night,
this guardian of honor
so willing to fight.
Then the soldier rolled over,
with a voice soft and pure,
whispered, "Carry on Santa,
It's Christmas day, all is secure."
One look at my watch,
and I knew he was right.
"Merry Christmas my friend
and to all a good night."
This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa, Japan.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 1:52:00 PM
1:52,
Yes let's all remember the familes that are left at home. Make your donations to the military children and Mothers who find it hard alone.
Murrieta T,
John and Ken were talking about illegal immigration right? How it can be better monitored? My opinion is to cut off the life source of illegals. Jobs. If they can't make any money, it would limit a major reason many come. I realize they come for the benefits of public aid but if they can't feed themselves a large percentage wouldn't come. Lets start attacking the people and companies that hire illegals. How many companies would hire one illegal if the hiring Manager or Company President was jailed for 30 days for each offense. Make it no tolerance so if you are caught once and it is proven, just like intoxication, you spend jail time. How many businesses would risk hiring anyone without identification? How many would take that chance. Look at all the jobs that the kids could do instead. They could pick fruits and vegatables, lanscaping work, construction work. How many of us think that illegals don't work for these developers? So if we want to really dent the immigration of illegals, attack the people that pay them. Let's not hire more border patrols. If the illegals are breaking the laws then so are company officials that hire them to save money. Lets stop US citizens from taking advantage of our system just as illegals do.
Oh and Roy, you do attack my family everytime you call me a traitor. You attack my wife and kids. Because I am the head of my household and my views represent my family.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:43:00 PM
Jeff and R holmgren,
I don't understand the insults you throw at each other when you get off onto national politics. And I don't find your world or national views very enlightening. We all hear the same old stuff all the time in the media. On the other hand, I think you both have interesting and even productive perspectives to share when it comes to Murrieta, and when you're in that subject area I feel I'm getting some benefit out of reading the blog. Just wanted to let you know. Thanks.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:14:00 PM
Murrieta T the illegal immigration issue really is complex. It would be easy to just say that I am for Ray Haynes initiative or against it. For national security reasons we need to devote more resources to the border and clamp down on the northern flow of people. At the same time I am really aware of how much the economy depends on their labor. It may sound good on paper to attack the employers of Illegals but I sense that will not happen because it could result in an economic upheaval at a time when the economy is just starting to really get some traction. I believe that a good place to start would be to deny public benefits to illegals. (Remember 187?) This time there should be an exception when it comes to emergency services. And when it comes down to emergency services the law should be changed so the ER cannot be used as the community free clinic. I empathise with those Illegal Immigrants who come here to better their lives. It takes guts to risk so much in order to come here. There must be a way to allow those who do want to work to stay here as long as they contribute to society and are not a drain on it. I am not advocating amnesty or citizenship, but I think it would be shortsighted to just deny hard working people a chance to better themselves.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 5:14:00 PM
Murrieta T,
Does that illegal is illegal phrase also include businesses hiring illegals? As far as I know it is illegal correct? It's really an enabler to these immigrants. I see we care about their impact on the economy but not their health. And I'm saying this knowing they abuse the process, just as we abuse their purpose, being dirt low wage earners.
When you say that you think employers hiring workers under Bush's plan are responsible for them. Does that mean they have to monitor after hours activity? Are they responsible for paying benefits to them? So really not wanting them to use our medical facilities, they could just work for low wages. I'm assuming under minimum wages with no benefits, not being allowed to use our medical facilities. I don't know many people that can house themselves, transport themselves, feed themselves on minimum wage alone.
Even slaves got room and board with a few whippings thrown in and the plantation doctor checked them. So what you are asking is for slaves without the doctor visit thrown in and we could always whip them.
The only other option is to close the borders period, change our ecomomy around. I realize also with open borders we do risk terrorists coming across although the thousands that have crossed illegally since we cracked down after 9-11, none have done anyhting drastic. I guess it isn't too big a worry as the borders with Canada are even more open then Mexico. If I'm flying in from the Middle East or anywhere I'd definitely walk over the unguarded Canadian border just about anywhere, not from Mexico as it is more of a hot topic right now.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:29:00 PM
4:14,
Tell us whats on your mind today. We need more input. What do you see right and wrong with our neck of the woods?
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, November 26, 2005 10:31:00 PM
Hi Jeff and thanks for asking (this is 4:14). I'm one of those kind of people who gets po'd once in a while when listening to what's being said on the web broadcast of the city council meetings. There's so much time spent on giving out little awards and sometimes listening to some big project guy going on and on about how neat and cool his project will be. And I've seen some of their BS in person which is always more of a show because you see them with the big screen projector and big artist drawn fancy boards making apartments look like shangra la. Anyway what bugs me most is that the council guys sit there clueless like they didnt do any real homework about the issues except member Seyartoe will ask questions that seem to be already preplanned. What I mean by that is that I think he knows the answers to his owm questions ahead of time and hes just trying to bring out one sided responses designed to support his side of things. Dont any of these guys do their homework except one sided Seyartoe? These guys on council can look into these projects before they get sucker punched at council meetings. They sit there with dead headed one liners while Seyartoe hits them with planned propaganda. Theres more crap going on right under our noses at city hall than we know about, and when I say ''we'' I mean also the council members who have access to the development files at city hall weeks before these things come to the meeting. These guys need to do their homework or we need to elect someone who will. Im sick of Seyartoe's non stop propaganda campaign for apartment developers who are out to cut the guts out of our town to make a few million bucks and leave us with a future of trying to figure out what to do with 99% of the economically disadvantaged population of Southwest Riverside County. Seyartoe will follow the money trail after the developers leave. He wont be here to solve our crime and graffiti and delinquency problems five or ten years from now. Sure the poor need a place to live but why does Murrieta have to be the place where all of them have been sent? Are we going to be the concentration camp of Riverside County?
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:32:00 AM
9:32 - The only 'money trail' Kelly Seyarto will follow will be for political support. The development community is nothing but profit oriented. They will give Seyarto or McAllister or vanHaaster or anyone else the benefit of mega dollar advertising if they think it will result in a favorable return on the dollar. Seyarto and the others have identified this basic fact of political finance as the path to their own political successes. Those who support big residential development never even have to get close to the money. The developers and their politicians have it all down to a science. And guess what folks... They are right! It works. And although it is possible to stop them from eventual success, it is very, very hard to do. They just keep on coming until the community is built out, and then they are off to greener pastures.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 11:07:00 AM
9:32 and 11:07,
Kelly Seyarto is a very hard working Councilmen there is no doubt. He pursues answers, spends his time digging for information, attends meetings to gain more knowledge. If he was on our side, being the residents of this town, I would stand on the street corner with a placard to get him re-elected. He has been bought and paid for by the development community. He is not a politician. He lacks the ability to control himself. He lacks the ability to work at the residents level as his goals and agenda are moving higher and higher. He is too arrogant, thinking he is above the rest of us and he is not. He would do well to attend classes on his people skills. As a matter of fact if I was the Murrieta City Council or the Riverside Republican party, I'd be sending him to these classes. Heck, he wouldn't have to pay for it. Alexander Communities would pay the bill if he asked. Thats the problem, thinking he is above all of us he knows his ticket to the bigger leagues comes with the money and power the support that big business brings. He will not get their kissing babies and shaking hands.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 12:26:00 PM
12:26 - You are right. He's very hard working. And I have to add he is very smart, but he is working hard with all his smarts against the future financial interests of this town in favor of major mass housing developers. He also wants the political support of higher ups in the political party which has in the past blindly endorsed him, and he perceives a way to achieve this goal by earning brownie points from the state government's housing authority, which is hard strapped to find citys willing to assume the major future financial burdens associated with high density lower-end housing. I think Seyarto's side ambition is more personal. He is smart enough to recognize that his own conduct had a lot to do with the removal of his friend from office. He wants to see that matter reversed. I think he will succeed at all of this unless the voting public in Murrieta gets a better grasp of what's going on with the high density issue in this town. The handful of people who read this blog are not enough to make a difference, and it looks like the new councilman can't take much legal pressure, so Seyarto may very well succeed.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:57:00 PM
Our Councilman Kelly Seyarto has never denied that he benefits from the indirect political advertising in his favor by housing construction corporations. There is nothing illegal in that kind of activity. It is a good thing. Nor has he denied that he wants to help in the creation of more entry level housing. He is a hero to people like teachers and firefighters who do not start out with high incomes and who need a place to go home to. It is too bad that some people wrote mean comments in this site. Would you want to contribute to this site if people were being mean to you?
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 3:51:00 PM
3:51 there are alot of self centered selfish people that post on this site. People who have gotten what they want out of life want to deny the same opportunity to others. It amazes me how some people conveniently forget how they got to where they are at in the first place.
Murrieta T and Jeff I wonder why so many immigration laws have not been enforced over the last 30 years or so. There must be a reason that employers are not hassled by law enforcement. This lack of enforcement has been occuring no matter who is in power. Jeff I do not think that anyone wants to deny medical care to anyone. It is just a fact that the ER should be used for its intended purpose and not misused as a community clinic. It is too bad T that you have decided to sell. Your experience is way more serious than the one I went through. You are facing negative changes to that area from many directions. I wish that I understood why the Date route was chosen. It just seems that moving the route a little more south would put it through a more commercialized area. It also looks like the RM machine is gearing up its K.S. bashing machine in preparation of the next election. I cannot wait to see what type of fabricated slants are thown around.
Also Jeff the flags you have are a good touch.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:28:00 PM
Rholmgren said: "This lack of enforcement has been occuring no matter who is in power."
That's my point! Both the dems and repubs are owned by the corporations. Neither party really represents the "little guy." That's why we should all register as independents.
The only time we matter is when it's time to bail out the gov't. The middle and working class just cannot take it anymore.
Edward Faunce
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:35:00 PM
Mr. Faunce how do you limit Corporate power in America without infringing on Constitutuional guarantees?
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:15:00 PM
3:51,
Seyarto is not a friend to teachers and firefighters. And how come you use the same two groups he always uses when defending slamming condos and apartments down our throat by the thousands. No one is against low cost housing, but at normal levels. Seyarto does benefit from Developers financially although done of us know how much. But look at his voting record across the board. It favors developers, showing many of us that he is bought and paid for and OWES developers his vote. The last vote concerning Alexander Communities he voted to move forward before the lawsuit was settled which would have taken Ostling and Enochs out of the voting. He was worried that AC had waited too long. WHO CARES HOW LONG THEY WAIT!!! We want all our Councilmen to vote on every issue. So his vote went to benefit the developer not this community.
Teachers and Fireman starting out will find it tough to afford the $1200 a month apartment or the $300,000 condo don't you think?
Seyarto contributed to this blog for a long period until someone called him on his comments and challenged them with the City Attorney. He gave us a dose of arrogance and developer protection in each post. I wonder who challenged him???? I wonder who got tired of his misleading comments about the ethics of the Mayor? Like Murrieta T said, he is a loose cannon.
Roy come check out my lights, but be careful, I booby trapped the yard in case some of those liberals try to take Christmas away from me. Those terrible people, saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas....pagans. I saw how it affected shopping on Friday? Do you think Christmas can survive these terrorist attacks on it? Fox News alert!!! LOL
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:26:00 PM
3:51, Watch out for Rholmgren. He hates anons.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 6:42:00 PM
Yeah Jeff and if I could only upload a anon eating virus... The Alexander vote is going to be interesting. I just hope people push their egos aside and do what is in the best interest of the city. If Alexander is denied maybe the RMers can sponser a fund raiser and raise some cash and purchase those two lots for park space. It would be the first good thing that they ever did.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:07:00 PM
Rholmgren. Who are the “people” that should push their egos aside and what is it they should do in “the best interest of the city”? A park on the west side of town? It sounds as if you agree that the proposed development is not a fit with the neighborhood.
A Curious anon.
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 5:30:00 AM
Rholmgren, regarding your 8:07 comments on the Alexander matter.
Why do you persist in claiming that Rescue Murrieta is opposing Alexander Community project? You have already been advised that RM is not actively taking a position.
But since you persist, either cite your evidence or publicly correct your position.
Edward Faunce
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 7:57:00 AM
Mr. Faunce I do not see how my 8:07 post could be interpreted as meaning that RM opposes Alexander.
5:30 I think you already know the egos I am talking about. Residents on the west side want more parks. I was just thinking that all rejected condo projects could be converted to park space. It seems like a good fit. I am sure that if the RM geniuses could orchestrate the recall so effectively that they also could figure out a way to create more park space.
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 8:59:00 AM
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Mr. Common Sense. Mr. Sense had been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such value lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that life isn't always fair. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, are in charge).
His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. - Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Mr. Sense declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student; but, could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Finally, Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, she spilled a bit in her lap, and was awarded a huge financial settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, help bring him back. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 10:01:00 AM
Murrieta T,
I was being sarcastic there. The reasoning was, yes, don't stop businesses from hiring them if they have crossed the border and already broke the law. And since we already illegally hired them, we can pay them anything we want and give them no benefits. Thus, businesses basically treat them worse then slaves. My sacasum was that slaves got room and board, doctor visits and a free whipping. Illegals cannot just run over the border to get medical treatment. We have to hold the businesses responsible. The attraction is not free land, free gifts, free anything to come across the border. The main attraction is to earn money for these people. If we make the businesses responsible we either turn the faucet off or we regulate it. It seems to me that punishing people because we in essense put up billboards showiing them that their are jobs here. Lets punish the owners of these companies or establish a worker program, fully funded by the businesses that need this "slave" labor. Seems funny that conservatives go to all ends of this earth to protect business owners and want to punish people that we have enticed to come here. Answer this....if there were no jobs here for undocumented workers, how many people would cross the border? Seems commom sense to me, that you cut the life line not the people trying to grab on.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 12:39:00 PM
Roy,
I read where you said that all these indictments are leading nowhere for conservatives. I also read where Duke Cunningham blamed Democrats for lying and misleading the public about things he had done. Wait.....today he said, oh I forgot.....I guess it was me, I'm so ashamed. That will be a broken record over the next two years. Poor conservatives seems that they are all turning into Pinocchios. Did you see his nose actually shink when he pled guilty. My, my. I'm sorry for people that live their live for ideologies. They must feel embarrassed and ashamed. LOL. If we want to see a list of indicted Congressmen do we just get a copy of the Republican roster??? Oh, yea....I know Bill Clinton lied about cheating. LOL
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 12:47:00 PM
10:01,
Was that Reason today that pled guilty? Was that Truth that was indicted a month ago or was that Trust...oh it was both of them. Was that Responsibility that is being investigated for stock fraud? Was that Reason that was approving laws that benefited a firm he was getting a check from? Oh that was the Goven...tor. Sorry my mistake it was most of our conservative Congress, the Governer's office and the White House. Common Sense has not died, just been stolen by liars and cheaters. One day it will return, but according to the calendar it will be awhile more. But we can bring it back by voting Seyarto out here in a few months.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 12:55:00 PM
Representative Cunningham's guilty plea today demands that the businesses, and people, who offered the bribes he took must also be prosecuted.
The American people have been sold out - yes, but it takes two to create a bribe - the offeror and the acceptor. Both are guilty and both should be punished.
Rholmgren asked me earlier how could we regulate corporate political "gifting" (legalized bribery) without offending the Constitution.
Simple, make it illegal for corporations to make political contributions of any kind. Corporations are creatures of law - not nature. They have only those rights with which we endow them.
But time is running out because the corporations have so much money that they have bought the entire crowd. Cunningham is not an exception, I'm sure. If this country is to be rescued, then it is the American people who must rise to the task. Our political leaders are impotent.
But we can do it! Rescue Murrieta had a rallying call during the recall when we discovered that we could not possibly compete with the developers' combined contributions. It was "The Ballot Box is Mightier Than the Bank Account."
No question, we are in dire straits - from the highest levels of government right down to our own little Murrieta City Council - because the collective "goodness" and "good sense" of the American people is ignored in favor of bottom-line business excesses.
Edward Faunce
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 2:24:00 PM
Hi Bloggers,
Hope everyone had a super T-Day! I had to jump back into the blog. Things are starting to cook in this town, some good, some not so good. First, I’m really upbeat about some of the new commercial development in town. The Murrieta Spectrum on Madison Ave and what’s happening and about to happen in the Triangle are very exciting. Such projects provide part of the basic sales tax revenues that a town really needs. I have to applaud everyone on the City Council who has had a part in making those particular projects happen.
I’m an upbeat kind of guy, so the rest of what I have to say is with hopes for the best. From what I’ve seen in the blog, read in the papers, and heard from associates, there’s general recognition in Murrieta that the Triangle and what’s left of the “Commercial Corridor” areas west of I-15 are the last best hope for this beautiful town to have not only adequate tax revenues, but to have a genuinely wealthy future. It’s no secret that the solid financial future of a city hinges on sales (and sometimes hotel) tax revenues. Outside money flowing into town. And it’s no secret that turning prime commercial land into heavily concentrated residential conglomerations will generate the opposite result, being long term deficits from that real estate, instead of income.
Someone already said it in this blog. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity to turn what’s left of those Corridors into some of the most fabulous tax-creating commercial property that any town could ever hope to have. The commercial potential of that vicinity is almost too good to be true. It’s like the goose that laid the golden egg, just starting to come of age, ready to create tax gold for this town for the next hundred years. So why would anyone seriously considering turning that potential upside down? I don’t understand it. Rholmgren said it well when he said there should be no more multifamily dwellings south of Ivy. I’d go much further than that in cutting back on the future multifamily developments, but the Ivy line is certainly a decisive line in considering the impact on Murrieta’s future tax revenues.
And let me put one argument that’s been made in it’s place. No one disagrees that teachers and firemen should have fine housing. But as someone who’s been around the real estate world a long time, I’ll share a bit of information with you that’s no secret. Anyone who has both good credit and a reliable government-paid income is not going to have trouble finding a place to live even if Murrieta does not turn into Apartment City. Landlords everywhere would do handstands to find a teacher or firefighter with good credit knocking at their door. High density apartments usually get a different kind of tenant.
Mr. Seyarto, I think you still read these posts. You know from my past posts that I’ve respected much of what you’ve said and done. But if you think this town has not already reached the beneficial limit in high density housing you are very wrong. Don’t kill the goose before it even starts laying the golden eggs. An opportunity is here and now that will never be here again. I think we’re largely in agreement on this subject in this blog, but I’m worried. What’s going to happen when its time for our elected representatives to represent us?
I’ve said my piece. Now I’ll be quiet for the rest of the holiday season. Joyous tidings to one and all! .
JLM
By
Anonymous, at Monday, November 28, 2005 8:15:00 PM
JLM/Murrieta T,
Maybe your all just too late to stop the steam roller. Do you think that these high density plans have not been in the works for a long time, possibly years? While you think Seyarto/McAlister/Van Haaster have been your friends, they have been selling us out. There is not one politician anywhere that can help not to do something good for the people he represents while raping them in a backroom.
Three of Seyarto's excuses for bringing high density living into our yard is that we need a place for lower income professionals to live, that we have to have a place for our children to start out in and that young couples are loading their cars in mass and heading to Arizona and Utah. First of all, we have apartment complexes here in town and I would love to see the ratio of where our teachers, police officers and firemen live? Next, we pay these Councilmen to protect our interests and they aren't doing a very good job at that, why would I let them try and take care of my child's future. And lastly, do any of you think that young couples are fleeing Murrieta? Not from my trips to the stores in this town. Spend a morning shopping at the Albertson's on Clinton Keith, or the Target store. Our school's are overcrowded and we need new ones. Is that because the I-215 is jammed with couples loaded down driving to Phoenix? More like they are loaded down in their RV's trailing boats out to the river.
So don't be fooled by the "Three Stooges". They have thrown us a bone. But they have all made chumps out of us to and I don't know that it isn't too late to stop what we were too blind to see coming. They are bought and paid for and they aren't about to turn their backs on these developers. They will either sink or swim pushing the agenda they have created.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:36:00 AM
Jeff ,
I hope you and others will read this entry well, and remember it. There is a fatal flaw in the actual mechanics of the high density steamroller. It might seem like a mere technicality, but it is not. If the council dares to use this point to their advantage, it will be the turning point in the high density war that's coming over the horizon. Here it is: Very high-density zoning has been in place on only a relatively small portion of the 400+ complex planned on Jefferson, near the northern end of that proposed project. The rest is MU-3 property, on which very high density residential would require special approval, which is somewhat similar to a variance. It may take a legal mind to decipher this extremely important fact, but it really is a fact and it is a powerful fact. There is a history of what MU-3 means at city hall, and what was actually approved by the city council when MU-3 was created is what needs to be studied. (That last line is worth reading three times.) If the council has the courage to exercise its option to deny that special approval, the property will lose most of its appeal as an obese residential cash cow for the developer, and it would then make economic sense for them to do what is right for the community, which is to turn the whole thing into a major tax generating commercial project. So, the community can still be saved from this apartment tragedy. JLM almost hit the nail on the head, but come on now JLM. Wake up and smell the voting history of the council members. Kelly Seyarto will not be the one who saves Murrieta. Only Gibbs, Enochs and Ostling have motives, and hopefully enough guts, which can save this town.
Been There
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:56:00 AM
7:56. Interesting stuff. Raises more questions. Should the city hire additional counsel to assist the city attorney on this apartment matter? Will the city attorney spend time upholding bad decisions by the earlier city council? And defending also the bad decisions of city staff hired under the reign of van Haster? Will legally messy precedents be established if the city approves the 400 unit complex? Mr. Faunce, any thoughts on these questions?
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:36:00 AM
10:36 and Been There,
Very good points. My opinion is we don't have the personality type like Seyarto defending the residents on the Council and if we sit ideally by the steam roller will be pushed by Seyarto and McAlister right over us. Ed, what can and should be done here? I don't think this community really knows whats coming. I believe there is a Council meeting tonight.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 11:33:00 AM
Responding to questions re: need for legal assistance.
First, the Council already approved sending out RFP's for other legal counsel to bid for Murrieta's business. I don't know whether any action has yet occurred.
Second, the legal problems in dealing with developers and land use may require counsel that has a specialty background.
I do recall reading several recent cases in which our appellate courts sustained judgments where developers were told "sorry, by the time your plan was presented, things have changed."
I also think that Murrieta presents a cutting edge situation because - as the fastest or maybe second fastest developing California city - trying to steer development may require more frequent adjustments of the City Plan than usual. But, only experienced legal counsel with no conflict of interest favoring the development community would be able to quickly help us out.
One other comment, we all recognize that Seyarto was a council member while this apartment project was approved. But, don't forget that McAllister was on the Planning Commission. He was appointed by the Jvh, KS and Brian Youens trio. This is the same group that tried to give Enochs the ax in favor of McAllister last time around.
Moral of this story? The powers that really run this City use the Planning Commission as the training ground to prepare them for Council membership. If they perform well for the developers (Dan Stephenson and friends) then the money will be there to get on the Council. That's how McAllister made it to the Council.
The City residents must really begin to raise a fuss about huge apartment complexes. This is why we must have a visible and vocal organization that expresses the residents' point of view and desires.
While some, especially Rholmgren, constantly deride Rescue Murrieta, the question is: What other organization exists which can perform this needed function? The residents' viewpoint will be unheard unless presented on a collective basis. While the developers' money "talks", organized community voter have even more political clout.
Edward Faunce
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:43:00 PM
I'm taking bets. In a few weeks, our planning commission, followed shortly after that by our city council, will cave in to the demands of the apartment developers (after the charade of requiring a few minor concessions from the developers, making them sound like major concessions). City planning dept employees will bow down to what Seyarto, McAllister and company have already blessed. The planning commission will fall in line like starched worms. The council will argue. The developer will sue. Gibbs will fold. End of story.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:04:00 PM
Mr Faunce I do not agree with you and your group on many things but if RM chose to stop that 400 unit complex then I would be on your side! Jeff I never follow the logic of publicly proclaiming the guilt (like you do) or innocence of anyone who is indicted. I do like it when people are tried and convicted in the media before they reach the floor of the court. I guess I am still an idealist who still believes in the presuption of innocence until proven guilty. After reading what Cunningham did over an extended period of time, and now that he has plead guilty, I hope that he is made an example of. Throw the book at him. I want him to serve the maximum sentence and pay the maximum fine. I have no tolerance for proven corruption. I also have no tolerance for people that proclaim the guilt and corruption of others before anything is proved as fact in court. It is also irritating when Bush is caled a liar while others that have said the same as him in the past are given mulligan.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:27:00 PM
Rholmgren - Your comments at 6:27 were surprising. I've been under the impression that your thinking is very rigid, but... well, I'm just another anon to you, but I have to admit I'm quite impressed by everything you had to say.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:46:00 PM
Great point as usual Roy, some may have said the same thing as Bush but they didn't send our soliders into a war, because maybe they weren't convinced 100%. At least not enough to cause 20,000 American casualties with no end of a quagmire in site. But they did vote on a Constitution, thats good right and we did build three schools. But then again Bush believes that we have mission accomplished and that the insurgentcy is in the last throes and that we should fight them there or they'll hop on United Airlines and come here and that Santa is coming in a few days. Go get more talking points out of Newsmax. Rove, Delay, Frist, Libby will all be at the country club soon enough and they can send you the conservative talking points by carrier pigeon. Each one that falls and you have to defend makes my day that much better. Repeat this name every night because it is your next nightmare...Jack Abramoff, Jack Abramoff...oh yea, I forgot Bill Clinton did it. LOL LOL
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 8:52:00 PM
If you want to air a gripe about your own family, do it in private. If you want to complain about national political topics, do it in a national forum. If you want to discuss Murrieta topics, do it where it can really do some good, in a local newspaper, at a city council meeting, or right here. Most of us reading here have no interest at all in anyone's personal or national thoughts.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:48:00 PM
Read today's Californian yet? "Been there" was right. A six lane Jefferson is in the plans. Murrieta's street engineer didn't even know as much as we already knew by reading this website.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:36:00 AM
7:36 - This is very interesting. The 6 lane future of Jefferson has been more a matter of long range planning, and that's why the Jefferson project engineer was caught off guard by the news. He was working off of 4 lane plus median or turn-lane drawings. Something very significant seems to have suddenly pushed 6 lanes into priority status. I'm going to make a guess, but it's only a guess. I think the traffic study element of the planned 400+ apartment complex may have raised questions. Going 6 lanes at this point may be designed to try to fight off the critics. If so, it means city staffers and maybe some political types are getting very nervous about possible opposition to the apartments. That would mean they are going to extremes in trying to make the apartments a go. But why? All I know for sure is that this city will bow low to big developers. I'm a small developer. I don't finance political campaigns. Take my word for it everyone, that can make all the difference in a town like Murrieta.
Been There
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:02:00 AM
10:48,
Who died and left you boss of whats written. I didn't see you write anything that was worth anything. Until you do...stick it in your ear.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:57:00 PM
Four hundred residences is like a small town. All emptying onto one street. No wonder they have to add lanes to Jefferson. Just think what thats going to do to Jefferson in the hours when most people come and go to school and work. Our own city government is putting the screws to us. What is going on?
We2
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:58:00 PM
10:48 It's good that people clue us in about their personal feelings and prejudices. Don't forget that KS was doing the same thing. He got criticized for saying too much about what he was really thinking, and now he's off somewhere sulking. That's not good. People who get their feelings all bottled up inside sometimes end up doing other people a lot of harm. Some of those people are our elected officials, and we don't need them getting mad. Who knows what they might do? Screw up the development in this town? I say let the feelings fly. Everyone speak their mind as long as what they say is true and not offensive to the younger readers.
just an 'ANON'
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:35:00 PM
2:35,
Comments like yours are so important to not only this blog but to the community. I too feel that 10:48's comments were at me and that's fine. I wish they would have SOME opinion. I like what you had to say.....youre not just an ANON....youre someone that cares to write. Throw a name or nickname on the end, it would just identify who we are replying to.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:18:00 PM
Jeff
2:35 and 6:46 of Weds were both my entries. I'm not adding a nickname for a special reason. This reason was mentioned by someone a month or two ago and it got me to thinking. The "ANON" entries are important in their own way, and that is that they are individual thoughts that have to stand or fail on their own. I find that concept very appealing. My belief is that ANONs should be guided only by two rules, one is that they only write what they believe is true, and that they write in a way that does not offend kids if they happen to be reading. I encourage more ANONs to make entries under those conditions.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:22:00 PM
So Jefferson is expanding to six lanes to accomodate that 400 unit complex...it is like a square peg in a round hole. I just do no see an attractive situation here. The side of the road will be too close to too many buildings. I am pretty sure that Temecula and Murrieta are going to connect some of those incomplete North/South segments. I just do not see the need for this awkward thoroughfare. Does anyone know what the cost differential is between the 4 lane and 6 lane project? The lot on the corner of Jefferson and MHS in my opinion is the second most valuable undeveloped lot in the area. It would be a complete waste to put apartments there. Maybe Jeff's water park would be a better fit.
Did anyone see that chase today? It passed me going down the 15 in Corona. I was shocked to later learn that the jerk being chased tried to carjack someone at a Murrieta intersection. Those chases are scarier in person than they look on TV.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:33:00 PM
Rholmgren - We didnt see the chase itself, but from our home we could count six helicopters and a fixed wing unit that were involved.
Regarding Jefferson, the article in the paper made it sound like the main cost will be for more paint to make more lines on the same street. What's wrong with this picture?
Hope the people in the office building and the new condos just south of the Jefferson/Ivy intersection are friendly. They'll be close enough to the cars going by to give the passing commuters a little peck on the cheek.
We2
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:07:00 PM
Hey I think the water park is a great idea. How else will we ever fill hotel rooms. None of us think that anyone has got Murrieta as a major vacation destination. If we think that Temecula' wine country is a big draw I think it's best to ask Temecula how many of it's rooms are filled. I doubt it's 40%. The water park needs to be along the I-15 so people see it and are reminded it's there. I'd go and maybe Murrieta T would come back and visit after he moves away.
Now how is a six lane highway going to fit. It's stupid. It won't fit on Jefferson by the police station unless they tear up all of the new trees they just planted. 4 lanes yes, 6 lanes doesn't work.
I'm sure this complex has two entrances with one going out onto Murrieta Hot Springs. That will be the direction most people head, to the freeway. Is that going to 6 lanes too. Who could possibly be planning this stuff.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:15:00 PM
Jeff - The word I've heard is that the whole complex is going and coming from Jefferson.
Bring on the waterpark! I don't even swim, but I'll learn how and buy a lifetime membership to the waterpark if it helps.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:47:00 PM
A restriping job? How safe will the road be with cars traveling in the same direction and oncoming traffic being squeezed into a space made for a 4 lane road? This sounds unsafe to me. Murrieta T is French Valley Pkwy a Temecula project or a joint Murrieta/ Temecula project? Can the Date route be changed or has the engineering been completed already? I guess tonight is question night.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:53:00 PM
I hope you will all show up at the council meeting and address the council for 3 minutes. Better yet, each of you invite 10 people who are willing to talk about this stupid condo project and let the city officials know you are ticked! Just think, 400 condos produce app. 4000 cartrips per day. The cities estimates each household prodices 10 daily car trips. There is the traffic disaster that already exists,in addition, how is that project going to affect the schools? Has that been addressed by planning dept and schoolboard? How about city services, like police? Are we covered with that? Many questions tonight, we need to show up at the meetings!
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:24:00 PM
9:24 - Good points. The big problem now is that only a handful of people in Murrieta are aware of how bad the problem is. The discussion on this site has been enlightening, but only a tiny number of citizens read this blog. It is very hard to get public attention to a problem until the damage is done. To create present awareness of the problem, the best route at this point would be for some blog participants to prepare well thought out letters to send to the editors of the Californian and the Press Enterprise. There are some very good writers presenting thoughts in this blog. The newspapers are read by many thousands of residents every day. The public would be outraged and up in arms if they really understood what's going on with this horrible apartment tragedy which is now being ram rodded through the offices of city hall.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:05:00 AM
905 - You are right and letters to the editors would be important.
924 - Payrolled city employees in the planning and engineering depts are working together to get this thing passed and they are going to come up with good enough reports to recommed approval. The same ones who were crying with van Haaster at city hall on the night he lost are like his ghosts who keep on doing what he wants done. Kelly Seyato is playing his own part and he is playing van Haasters too in his absence. They all believe it is a fact van Haaster will be back after next election. Mc Allister so far is attached to any developer he thinks will give him political support so he will act like he is very concerned and then will vote in favor of the apartments. Because of pro van Haaster city employee involvement behind the scenes these apartments will be hard to stop.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, December 01, 2005 11:32:00 AM
City staffers are acting like the apts are a done deal. The change to Jefferson was a traffic 'technicality' that just took a little more paint to turn 4 lanes into 6. (Maybe these geniuses could solve the traffic jam problems at 215/Clinton Keith with a little more paint.) Before G/E/O comment they should seek advice from an independent city attorney who specializes in such matters. If anyone has an inside line to G/E/ or O, please clue them in to the contents of this string.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, December 01, 2005 1:23:00 PM
Does the city council have no input on changing a street from 4 to 6 lanes? In the newspaper article it looked like the decision had just been made and everyone was just starting to find out about it. Who had the authority to make that kind of major decision?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, December 01, 2005 2:17:00 PM
Why don't we move this string up to Ed Faunce posts above concerning the Chamber of Commerce.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:27:00 PM
Ed, thank you for this information. It is really quite helpful and I am glad to know that this blog exists. Keep giving the facts!
By
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