MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.: OPEN TOPIC

Sunday, September 25, 2005

OPEN TOPIC

Tom Suttle had the idea that some of you would like a string opened that was a little less topic-oriented, so I've posted this open topic blog for anyone who has items they would like to address in open forum. If this works, I'll post more of them. Enjoy!

245 Comments:

As an ordinary Murrieta resident, I want to take this opportunity to say how good it made me feel that our community put on a very nice fund raising event at Cal Oaks park recently for the hurricane Katrina victims. The event was very sincere and did not have any kind of partisan feeling. In times when we really need each other, we can and sometimes do come together. Thank you everyone.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, September 25, 2005 7:20:00 PM
JL Kunkle
Just a note of appreciation for giving the suggestion a try. As a couple of the forum readers already know, my thoughts on the importance of public communications go back to a time just a bit before the middle of the 1900’s, when as a very young child in a little town in middle of Kansas I would listen to discussions of politics in the city park. Even as a kid I could sense the importance of what was going on. In these discussions, ideas were born and debated, some people let off some steam, and in the end result public policy began to take form. That was a city park, in a little town, in another time. The world soon changed, and technology was part of that change. TV was the main culprit, the one that took people out of the town squares and park discussions across America.
But now, technology is bringing things full circle. The town squares and city parks are returning in places like this forum. Places where people can bring up ideas, debate things that need to be debated, and let off a some buiilt up steam from time to time. And whether it is obvious or not, places where public policy is taking form.
What is especially important is that forums like this are places where people who are politicians, and other people like myself and so many others with interests centered far outside of politics, can join the discussion and become a part of what makes things happen.
This experience is all brand new, still far from perfect, a mix of things positive and negative. But it is real.
Tom Suttle

By Anonymous, at Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:15:00 PM
7:20 - You are not "ordinary" if you care about other people. You may have noticed that most people in the community were not at the event. (and that is an understatement)

By Anonymous, at Sunday, September 25, 2005 11:09:00 PM
A quick Kudos, Way to Go, and Keep Up the Good Work to everyone involved in all the new commercial/office work going on along Murrieta Hot Springs Road in the triangle. Nice, nice. Maybe the commercial world will take notice and start hitting on fantastic opportunity which remains in the triangle's big sweet spot.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 7:39:00 AM
Jeff an Rolmgren, you guys thought about a local talkshow, local fm radio or ? People would tune in.

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 1:34:00 PM
1:34,
I would just like the best things for this community. My two cents aren't always right and I know that. Heck if they were my wife would have nothing to complain about.

I couldn't work with Rholmgren, I'd have to take his gun and shoot myself every night out of frustration.
But having the council members participate in a radio show might be a really good idea. Two different every week. Get their ideas out to the residents so we can help decide. Many times I have no clue what is going on until I read it in the paper. We should all thank Laura Mitchell for the outstanding job she does covering our city council in the Californian.

Also thank you Mr. Kunkle for this forum.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 5:20:00 PM
Jeff : This local radio show idea could be good. Rotating council members. But who would moderate? I bet the chamber would volunteer, and major developers could foot the bill. Oops! The idea just started sounding really really bad.

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 6:17:00 PM
6:17 is right. I say the radio show idea has a 99 percent chance of turning into a propaganda tool. And Jeff, I agree 50 percent with you about Laura Mitchell. This one used to be about 95 percent. The other 50 percent of me says she’s way too cozy with the new city manager. (From what I’ve seen in the papers it looks like the old girl’s club attitude trumps hard nosed reporting, but I’m not sure. I’m still reserving judgement on this one).
Been There

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 6:38:00 PM
I think Jeff should start his own radio show and call it THE JEFF CONSPIRACY COMEDY HOUR. I would tune in for a few laughs for sure. Jeff did you get lost searching for the easy to find Murrieta parks?

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 7:24:00 PM
Rholmgren,
What you don't consider are people that live in different neighborhoods, not the ones out your window. You are dead wrong about my neighborhood. Because you drove through it doesn't make you an expert on it. Living across the street from incomplete homes for two years has left me jaded. You even have an excuses for the dust. You make excuses for EVERYTHING. You don't have answers just excuses. Well, I can bottle the dirt and dust and dead mice I have collected and drop them off, no, I'll let the mice live and just drop them by you. So whats your excuse for mice that are drawn to areas where homes have been stagnant for two years. Great developers right? They are out for the good of the community, right. These homes are not selling as you and Kelly have said. Thats why they arent finishing them. They don't want to add options without buyers. Is this good for Murrieta? You are the one thats laughable. Where is your answer to my offer, which is on the way to the foundation today, of you doing something for the community. You had the nerve to say I have never done anything. Match what I do with your time. You are all mouth and no works.
Typical conservative. They are raising tax rates next year to pay for the prison for all the crooks in the Republican party....let's see....Frist, DeLay, Rumsfeld, Rove....gee....Bush might be all alone with Condi and Cheney...the won't be able to field a bowling team.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 8:07:00 PM
6:17,
I still havent heard from Kelly about making all big business donate all election contributions into the newly created foundation. If he really was all for Murrieta and not for personal gain, he'd jump at this. 500K into a foundation for our library books and other beneficial things in our community. What a windfall. Maybe then he wouldn't be asking me to pay for new parks.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 8:11:00 PM
What would be wrong with the Chamber moderating a radio talk show? They would not have to be the ones scripting the format, and the guest list could be bi-partisan. This idea has some substance to it.

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 8:51:00 PM
Jeff I have my charities already and you are in no postition to make any demands from me. You do not know what I do privately, so you are ignorant and out of line to think that I do nothing. Jeff I got out of my truck and listened to the freeway noise from the top of the hill at the last phase. I think that outside noise is a turn off to many buyers when there are other houses selling at similar prices off of Clinton Keith with little road noise.I watched that area for the last phase get graded and I thought homes in that area were a mistake. You should be jaded Jeff. It is your fault that you moved so close to the freeway. Anyway being jaded is a common string through most of your posts. So you are jaded by one developer and so you are mad at all developers. It makes sense to me.
Jeff when I mentioned the parks I was just scrating the surface of avalilable park space. I have been to every neiborhood in Murrieta. Here is another unigue area for you. Go up Cal Oaks And take a right before yo reach Clinton Keith. There are some open spaces in that neighborhood with large oak trees and they are not on the parks list. How about all of the canyons all orver the city? I have explored many of them. Did you know that some of them have creeks that are fed year round by natural springs? Jeff none of these area are listed by the city as park space but they are great areas to visit and many Jeff are within a 10 minute ride of your house. Here is another one Jeff. Go to Glen Arbor park and walk through the tunnels under Jackson and continue walking until you reach the park on Mountain Pride with the ballfields. It is a nice walk. Why am I writing all this Jeff? Because I believe I have gone through the trouble to check out and explore all of the wonderful open spaces in this city while you sit behind a computer and falsely lament that there is not enough open space. And guess what Jeff I could type PAGES talking about all of the hidden gems within our city. There are that many Jeff so get off the computer and live reality.ANd Jeff all the places I am talking about will NEVER be developed. They are all listed as open space on the General Plan. One more thing Jeff I do believe that investigations and allegations mean nothing until one is found guilty of a crime. Remember we are innocent until proven guilty. So as of now all the Republicans you listed are innocent until a trial proves otherwise. Oh and I think that list includes Vanhaster. Only kneejerkers assume automatic guilt before a trial. Keep watching the Bush show Jeff. His actions are running circles around the talk only Democrats. Watch how easy Roberts is confirmed. And the next TWO Supreme Court nominees will be just as easy. THANK YOU GINSBURG!

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 8:56:00 PM
Sounds like puppy love. Rholmgren and Ruth Bader G., sitting in a tree, B-A-R-K-I-N-G!

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 10:13:00 PM
Rholmgren,
I have to just laugh. First off, there are many homes along the freeway and I live three or four blocks away and have no.....i repeat no noticeable noise from the freeway. Again, why do you always defend anything that has to do with developers? The homes up and down my street were a hot commodity. We even camped out in line for a week to get our specific lot along with each phase of this project. Even the ones that border the freeway. So you are again talking out of your back side. You don't have a clue. This is not my opinion from getting out of my truck for ten seconds but the facts of living here for three years.

Next, again laughing. You want our children down in these canyons? Maybe yours but not mine. Especially with your former gang member friends hanging around.

Your little gems may be just that to you, but these gems are all over Southern California and will not help draw home buyers or visitors here. Most communities have these little unexplored canyons, usually inhabited by coyotes and rattlesnakes and an occasional illegal alien. I'm kidding, or am I? I really find it much safer to find an area that would make us distinct from other communities. We have areas along the mountain range to our west that could serve as a nature preserve. A man made area for safety to not only for experienced hikers but for some of us that are not. We are not even thinking about areas like this.

Anyway from your posts, all I hear is whatever is opposite the things I say. Is it hard to always take the other illogical side?

Isn't it crazy that all you do is defend the ethics of the people you support. I wouldn't leave my wallet laying around any of these conservatives. It would be gone in a second.

And for the comment about what you can contribute. That was started by you, saying that I haven't done anything. All I was asking you to do is donate a little time to repay this community for giving you these open spaces to explore with your buddies from gang heaven. Maybe while youre down exploring some of these areas you could scare up some game and bring home dinner for Mom.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, September 26, 2005 10:27:00 PM
Interesting. California’s director of the dept. of Housing & Community Development is speaking at the Senior Center at Adams & Juniper today (Tuesday) at 7PM. Why? To pat Murrieta on the head for it’s willingness to become the local poster child for low income housing. The leaders of Murrieta city government will all be there to soak up praise for letting Murrieta become the dumping ground for the low income masses. Of course, the state is genuinely happy about this. Imagine how hard it must be to find a community willing to die for the cause. A half-way house for poverty victims. The gem of the valley? How about the sucker of the valley. This meeting will be designed no doubt to put a charming face on the place to which this town is headed: Apartment Hell.
Been There

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:57:00 AM
Jeff I remember some of my friends camping out at Pacific Oaks. I probably mountain biked every lot there as they were graded. They were hot then Jeff because that tract was one of a few new tracts that had larger houses that at that point in time were scarce in Murrieta. Now that size home is much more common and the last phase of Pacific Oaks is competing with homes of the same size and that sre similarly priced but are in much better locations. At the time you bought that home Jeff there was a frenzy. Now things are more competitive. You are the one talking out your backside. Over and over you make all of these crazy assertions in your posts and then you turn around a few posts ago and you say that you have not lived here long enough to know what individual council members have done in the past.Why should your opinion matter then when the subject of council member accomplishments are mentioned? You cry about not having enough park space while acres and acres of parks and ballfields are a five minute bike ride from your house. You think there are illegals living in the canyons? Rattlesnakes? I have never seen any sign of encampments within city limits and over the last 10 years I have seen 1 rattlesnake in town. (No I take that back it was North of Clinton Keith in the hills of Wildomar). You Jeff need to get out more. Your grasp of reality looks like it is based more on what you read than on what you get out and see for yourself.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:03:00 AM
8:57 - I'm sure this town won't know what's happening until it's way too late. You are right about tonight's meeting. It's a combination of city government damage control, and the state saying "you just as well lay back and enjoy it, cause its gonna happen anyway"

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:31:00 AM
9:31: Wrong. The state is not going to make it sound like the city is getting hurt. They're going to appeal to the people of this town in a way that would appeal to a wh***. They'll be talking about money. Selling out for money. And sure they will make it sound like parks, roads, and more police. But it's money, honey. And the state wants to permanently "party" with low income apartments and condos all across the most valuable commercial soil of our town. City Hall eats this kind of stuff up, because it means tons of bureacratic bucks to play with. We are probably doomed.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:06:00 PM
Rholmgren,
First it was living too close to the freeway, now it's something different. I could say anything and you just come back with a new assertion. Look out your own window and if youre happy with things going as they are, thats fine. Everyone has the right to an opinion and a thought. Yours are just for the purpose of dispute and have no real purpose. Rattlesnakes are plentiful around and behind the hospital. They are abundant also in the Eastern part of Murrieta near the ranches in French Valley. They are also living in the white house....I had to say that.
I don't have the energy to say anymore to you.

8:57,
I would like to know exactly what comes from today's presentation. Can anyone report about it here?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:11:00 PM
Jeff... I'm '1:06' but in case no one else has input before this eve, the buzz is that the city is feeding things to the papers (two articles in recent days) and this meeting tonight is part of the same effort. Its in response to growing public resentment that a big part of west side Murrieta is getting the shaft. '9:31' used the words damage control and that sounds right. Maybe one of the many assistant city managers could give you some preview details by phone.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:40:00 PM
We should all be grateful that the officials in charge at the City of Murrieta are making every effort to keep the public fully informed. The person speaking at the meeting tonight is the director of the California Department of Housing and Community Development, Lucetta Dunn. In California State Government, they don't get much more important or high-ranking than Ms. Dunn. We are honored to have her here, and the City Manager of Murrieta, Lori Moss, is to be congratulated on her success in making the arrangements.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:14:00 PM
"Outside in the distance a wild cat did growl
Two riders where approachin', the wind began to howl."
- Bob Dylan

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:50:00 PM
2:50 - Probably not a good day for the wildcat to be growling.
The councilman (Mr. Seyarto) is not always right (no one is always right), but on this one he is. This is just a suggestion, but I'd like to suggest that anyone who has strongly negative feelings on the apartment issue just do like MurrietanEyes and decline the public invitation to attend. I can only feel right about saying this if I add my own two cents on the issue: It is my personal belief that future (long range)real estate values in this community will be damaged if the apartment and condo trend continues in this town. Respectfully, Mr. Seyarto, the brakes need to be applied quickly, all the way to the floorboard, on apartments and condos in Murrieta.
As an old Bob Dylan fan, I'd like to suggest a different verse from All Along The Watchtower:

Businessmen they drink my wine,
plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line
know what any of it is worth

May cool heads prevail.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:58:00 PM
My comment won't sound too professional because I'm not as in tune with real estate and politics as some people. But what bothers me is that so much of this condo and apartment construction is going on in a small area. If people who know how to understand these kind of maps knew all this in 1999, what were they thinking? When the plan work was making news, I bought one of those maps. You can buy them at city hall. I admit I didn't study it like it was a piece of art, but if you glance over it you see some very specific multi family areas. But unless you're a real student of this kind of planning, who would know the Multiple Use Commercial areas were green lights for high density apartments? We're supposed to be protected BY our elected officials, but in Murrieta it seems we need to be protected FROM them. If the MU zone high density construction continues, Adams and Jefferson are going to be trashed. I don't care what kind of gingerbread you stick on apartments, they are still what they are. High concentrations of low wage earners. Which of course we need some of here and there, but you don't need to go sticking a whole lot of them in one small area like Adams and Jefferson unless you want to make a low income concentration camp. Maybe thats so the police can keep a better watch on them? Is that it? What self respecting teacher or police officer would ever choose to live in an area like that unless they were completely desperate. In fact that is what it will become. Desperation city. No, let's give it a better and more fitting name. How about The Seyarto Projects? The low income concentration camp of Murrieta will always be The Seyarto Projects.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:11:00 PM
Kelly,
On one hand you tell us it's important to build these condos and apartments for teachers and policemen and kids and other people on the lower wage scale and then you say, well these condos and apartments aren't for low income familes. You prove that its not for teachers and kids and any one you want us to feel bad for, its for the wealthy who are inclinded not to take care of the yard. Start speaking straight. These are not going to be projects they are going to be our new tax base squeezed more compact. They can't get the lots any smaller so they'll just stack us on top of each other and build on every inch. We the current residents should stand up and say slow down.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:21:00 PM
. Oh great. KS is determined to turn Murrieta into a "bottom rung" society. And it will stay that way for good. Shoot for the bottom KS. How can you miss? Call it success if you want to, but it is a loser brand of success.

Theres only one possible reason KS strains at this apartment and condominium logic so hard. Hes got to justify what he has already determined hes going to do. For whatever reason that may be.

To us older folks it sounds like LBJ defending the "great society" program which nearly bankrupt our nation. It failed miserably, but a lot of developers made a lot of money helping build units for those "just starting out at the bottom rung".

Oh yes, developers. What a strange coincidence that their profits are always somehow involved with "bottom rung" projects. And look at what all those areas are like today. If you shoot for the bottom, you just keep going down, down, down.

KS is for all intents and purposes out to keep this city down, and developer profits up. It is an ugly situation we've got ourselves into. Our most vocal leader has decided we should shoot for the bottom. What a leader.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:59:00 PM
Look at the general plan Jeff before you say developers are going to build on every inch. I see a well rounded and planned city. All of you selfish people who are only concerned about your own situation are really really pathetic. We all need to think about the future needs of our children and plan for it now. People like Jeff selfishly want to be concerned with those that are here now. Well Jeff like I said before I wish I had thought like you so that I could have prevented your house from being built. Fortunately for you Jeff the Murrietans that were here before you were less selfish than you are today.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:31:00 PM
I have built my own house, not that it's any of your business, because my point is not other than the fact that you want to build your social agenda on the backs of the people of this community, and this community is not your toy to play with and then someday discard when you realize you have made something that stinks and you want to move away. The only balance you should be seeking right now is mental balance, as it is that which you are most sorely lacking. Go ahead and turn a nice town to a pile of garbage, and then you can feel great about yourself. You're quite the man if you can, single handed, destroy a whole town. But I'm not betting against you, because there are apparently enough fools out there to keep you in office.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:33:00 PM
Residents,
I was not at the meeting last night, but from reading the aticle in the Californian this morning I think that what we have been told is that our future is in thousands of more people that will move here. The only way for them to bring more people in that kind of scenerio is to build these condo and apartment complexes. Unless the Planning Commission and the City Council change direction, instead of our large home subdivisions we can look forward to large sprawling apartment and condo complexes. The representative from the state didn't tell us what kind of infrastructure the state was going to fund so this can happen. They just want it to happen, period.

Rholmgren and Kelly keep talking as if these apartments and condos are for teachers, police officers and firemen at the bottom of the ladder, but alas, they are not. To quote Kelly, the prices for these condos is between $250K and 350K per unit. Rents on the apartments are in upwards of $1200. Now I'm sure the city will be forced to bring in some lower valued apartment rents, but condo values that high will be a true windfall for the development community. These projected condos/apartments are just to squeeze more high income folks into our community, cramming our streets and virtually taking any existing elbow we have away. We are certainly not prepared for this continual build. We need to start by widening roads, building more schools, setting a cohesive plan in place. I think we as a city should call the City Council together, have them present a map of this plan before us, show us the timing of the plan and tell us what infrastructure will be in place before we have more construction vehicles cramming the already crowded roads. They need to take accountability for this. The plan may be online somewhere or available to look at somewhere but we need an ongoing question and answer session. One that happens quarterly to get information out there. Publish that information, instead of articles in our local papers about the Councilmen backstabbing each other, we need the real plan laid out. It won't be popular, thats why it's not out there for all to see and hear about. If they were building a water park, they would have billboards stating it. The offer of more people and vehicles jamming our streets is not something that we the residents get excited about. Rholmgren only cares about two things in his posts. How much money the developers can get because that grows the conservative agenda and how he can back anything any Republican says, no matter what they say. He has no true goal except to push whatever agenda they have set forward. If they said that we need to kill every families first borns, Rholmgren would try to give it credibility.

What this representative is saying is that we should realize that our young people are leaving. Isn't that the same exact statement that Kelly told me in an earlier post. This agenda or scare tactic had to be discussed by these two prior and it is one of the talking points they will use. I don't see it. I go to the grocery store and see all young people, young familes. I see pools being put in the backyards of all the newly built homes. I don't see an aging group buying these homes.
Thats the scare tactics. They want us to be afraid that the young people or future workers are leaving, but they aren't. If they are leaving, it's not the prices of homes, it's that business is leaving because of taxes and the high cost of insurances and the good quality jobs are leaving. Such is the case with a company that was in French Valley, Boston Scientific, which at one time had 250 employees. They have laided off most of their workers and plan to shut the doors by the end of the year. They moved there operation to Ireland. These talking points I assume are just a cheerleading section to bring in more apartments, condos and homes and there only excuses are that the young people are leaving and that the people have to go somewhere, so I guess they need to come and live on every square inch of Murrieta. Let's slow this all down and see the plan. Lets see where these complexes are going. All that will be left open are the ravines that Rholmgren haunts. So if you hear someone in your bushes at night it's just Rholmgren and Kelly with their families enjoying the "new" Murrieta parks.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:45:00 AM
Anyhoo, has anyone noticed how wonderful the weather has been lately? We are so lucky, just to be alive. That's my open topic comment.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:23:00 AM
I want to agree with Jenny Wright about the weather. And I think the state should pass a law that says we must have more nice weather, and that the City of Murrieta will carry out that agenda. And then, Kelly Seyarto can get busy building a weather machine, which will take his attention off his agenda to destroy this town by building cardboard shack tenements so bums to not have to sleep out in the open.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39:00 AM
One more thing... Temecula has had a big problem recently with transients who do sleep out in the open. If Murrieta can take care of Temecula's problem by becoming the low rent flop house section of the county, we really would be doing a good turn for our neighbors in Temecula. I've been thinking about moving to Temecula, and that idea is starting to look a whole lot better. I bet Kelly will move there too, unless Murrieta gets really, really bad, in which case he'll probably want to be moving a lot farther away.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:46:00 AM
Jeff I am going to follow Jenny Wright's lead. The sky is clear and blue and it looks like it will be a perfectly warm Murrieta day. I also want to thank everyone who has done such a great job improving the downtown area of Murrieta. It looks so much better than 10 years ago. I also can't wait to use the Los Alamos Park when it is finished. It's time to go and haunt another canyon.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:11:00 AM
Jeff. I hope you ignore the ridicule Kelly Seyarto heaps on you and everyone who disagrees with him. And do not feel bad for missing the state's propaganda puppet last night.
If everyone could just see this matter for what it is. Do you know why the state bothers to send a propagandist on the long circuit of presentations she is now on?
The federal government and the courts have made it law that the states assure adequate housing for welfare recipients. What does this mean to us? It is not immediately obvious, and requires a look at the bigger picture.
If all there is in a large area, such as southwest riverside county, is nice upscale housing, then the state and county have to pay more for welfare housing. Don't forget, this is law. Welfare recipients have to be adequately housed, and if nice homes are all that is available, then the state has a more expensive problem to deal with.
The state's solution is to find communities where lower-rung housing can be built, and where they can convince people that it makes sense. Well, it does make sense to the state. It solves their problem by reducing the overall cost of welfare. But it destroys the communities which fall for it.
We all know of communities which have concentrations of welfare recipients. And why do they have those high concentrations of welfare reipients? Because the state and county governments know that those are the areas with low cost housing. It does not matter if that low cost housing was initially built with good intentions.
Facts are facts, and welfare recipients end up in low cost districts. The state encourages the construction of low cost districts. And there are some local politicians who like to get cozy with state employees who are very close to the governor's chair. Some people like maybe a local councilman live for that kind of closeness to powerful people. Some politicians are motivated by money, but others just like to be recognized by the higher-ups.
Right now Murrieta is on the fast track to becoming welfare central for southwest riverside county. This is because the interests of the state happen to intersect with the power desires of certain members of the political establishment.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:45:00 AM
8:45 Truth is truth, but some people can say it better than others. You hit the nail right on the head. I'm going to print out your post and give it to people who need to read it. Thank you.
Been There

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:27:00 AM
If we have an opinion then of course people of the opposite opinion ridicule if they have little to back up the opposite side. Just look at Rholmgren.
Of course I'm not swayed by Councilman Seyarto. He can call names everytime he is challenged. Thats what politicians do in defense of themselves. Example is Delay in Washingtom. Today he was indicted and the first thing out of his mouth is to blame his critics. The same with Brown over the Hurricane. It's there SOP.

Kelly continues in each post to care about future residents here in this town and not today's residents. Do we not see is that his agenda is to profit the pockets of the wealthy developers? Sure he will allow more.....I'll call it slightly lower cost income families to be jammed into high priced apartments and high priced condos. He says it's so they have a chance at the All-American Dream of owning their own home, yet at the prices he's talking about, what family living in these condos or apartments can save for a down payment? How much equity does a condo acheive in 5 years compared to a home? I wouldn't think nearly the same. Again the people who really want condos are people that are getting older and want to size down, people that don't want the maintenance of a yard and people who want something to own but can't afford a house. What Kelly cares about his how many people (tax dollars) he can cram in small spaces, and then the developers can profit by selling 4-6 $300,000 condos on the same size lot as a $600,000 house. Get it. The city has a bigger tax base, the developers make money and Kelly and his pals get more points with the state. Is that what this is about Kelly???? Moving up the ladder? County government? State Politics? Your financial backing would be in place......

I wish I had time to attend all these meetings but don't. So I ask questions, which I should. I then give my opinion....but it's just my opinion and gut feel. Kelly you are a public offical, our Councilman. When you speak, its as if it's an official statement. You are the one who should watch, as many eyes are watching. Many unheard and unseen untill they approach that voting screen and they remember what you say and how you say it. I'm counting on them.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:42:00 PM
KS, at 3:20 you said you were the one who invited Lucy Dunn. Sounds like you are tooting your horn for all to hear! You sure didn't want anyone else to get credit for that, especially WE. You like to pretend to be a mover and shaker in Murrieta. You are a typical politician with higher ambitions trying to cram all your beauricratic bs down our throats. Anyone that doesn't agree with you, you then belittle them. There are some of us that can think beyond the bs. 8:45, you hit the nail on the head!!!

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:56:00 PM
Jenny Wright,
Yes, the weather has been the best ever. Thank you for slapping us in the face and reminding us to enjoy it.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:47:00 PM
KS: Some very good people who would not think of belittling you are convinced that you are motivated by whatever psychological reward you get from rubbing elbows with, or pandering to the desires of, the rich and powerful. You don't seem overly interested in the well being of your present constituents, since your own words make it sound as though you would be willing to do them financial harm to benefit your own ideals. If it is truth that you are calling "nasty", and it is the same truth that you are creating, and not the fault of anyone else. If you cause good people to become frustrated and it shows in their words, that is honesty and not negativity. In the end, it appears that you yourself are actually causing a lot of what you seem to dislike in the way of peoples' tone and the words they use to try to express their feelings.

You tend to bring out the worst in people. That says it all.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:53:00 PM
4:53 Dittos the last line. The worst in people. And he brings out the worst in the whole community. Can anyone imagine that there would have been a recall election if he had not been on the counsel? Nope. Unhappy with VanHaster, sure. But a recall? Not a chance.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:29:00 PM
Jeff I would hate to live in your world. There is just too much of a disconnect with reality. The apartments and condos have been in the works for 5 or ten years and now all of you Johnny come Latelys want to do something after your houses were built first? You all should have done your research before you bought your houses. All of the information was there for you at City Hall.If you wanted to live near a park you should have gone to City Hall and located the present and future parks. Now all of you look like whiners because you are complaining about development that was in the works well before you ever lived here. I hope that every property owner involved in future retail and high density development profit handsomely. Many of these property owners deserve their windfalls. Many of them purchased their properties back when it looked like Murrieta did not have a great future ahead of it. People like that are going to be rewarded for the risk they took investing in Murrieta and they should be thanked.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:45:00 PM
4:53 and 5:29 you are both dead wrong. Rescue Murrieta has brought the worst out in this community. Rescue Murrieta brought together a group of people that were always percieved as the negative do nothing whiners of the community. Now they are hoping to have more political potentcy with their PAC. All that I see is a PAC that has been toxic to Murrieta politics and is really good at distorting the truth to further their agenda. They will do or say almost anything to make K.S. look bad.They almost seem Machiavellian in their strategies.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:59:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Let's see ....negative whiners....Tom Delay......they don't like me. They can't vote me out so this is the only way, frame me...boo ho. Bill Frist.....I didn't do it.....boo hoo. Kelly Seyarto....I'm not in anyone's pocket...boo hoo. Rholmgren....let's let a court decide....boo hoo...LOL.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:25:00 PM
Rholmgren,
It's the same old..."love it or leave it attitude". Some of us have the " lets fix it before it's too late" attitude. My complex had a park on the planning map, but pooofff it disappeared. Oh...sorry maybe that was the ravine you hang out in.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:28:00 PM
"Arf. Bow Wow Wow. Grrrr. Arf Afr. Machiavellian. Arf. Bow Wow Wow."

Whoa, dude. Did you hear that dog say "Machiavellian"? That's cool, man. Throw him a doggy treat, or something. Or maybe Kelly can just pet him.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:28:00 PM
Hey this says it is an open topic string and I've got a topic that burns me to the core. There's an article in the Press Enterprise title "Free Breast Screenings Offered to Low Income Women".

AND THAT IS GREAT. NO DOUBT A GOOD THING. EXCEPT: Rich women can afford their own. Poor women have the state (Medi Cal) to absorb all their costs already. So both of those have insurance in one way or another. Then theres the middle income women. Some of them for reasons out of their control have not been able to get insurance. They have a little savings, a home they make payments on with a little equity and so on. If they get sick, Medi-Cal tells them to go away until they are close to broke, and they end up losing everything. WHY NOT AT LEAST MAKE BREAST CANCER SCREENINGS AVAILABLE TO ALL WOMEN WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:08:00 AM
8:08 - Thank God someone said something about this topic. Just one example, I know a woman who is not old enough for Medicare and uninsurable after a combination of health problems and her ex-husband cleverly screwing her out of benefites from the insurance they once shared. She has looked for legal help, but he did it to her good. Now she has a small amount of savings and a hard-working job with reasonable income and the chance to lose it all if any health problem comes up. She would have to lie to even get one of these low income breast exams, but she is not a liar. Do you know how much it costs to get any kind of medical treatment without insurance. There are two sets of rates at hospitals. If you don't have insurance, you get the huge rate. Its legal, they have a clever way of doing it.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:28:00 AM
828 - Thank you.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:54:00 AM
What a breath of fresh air! People talking about something meaningful. Something other than all the negative political nonsense.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:00:00 AM
I too have experienced this two tier system with a new twist. My wife fell and bumped her head. She was not seriously injured but she wanted to see our Doctor. My wife demanded a Cat Scan to make sure everything was alright but the Doctor said the injury was a minor bump. We were directed to Inland Valley for a Cat Scan but it was not authorized through our insurance. I offered to pay cash for the scan and was quoted a price. The scan was done and everything turned out OK for my wife. Then about a month later I recieved a supplemntal billing that was 3 times higher than what I payed in cash. It turns out that in the fine print of the hospital contract that they have given themselves the legal right to add charges 30 days after a procedure. I thought I was being ripped off. I had asked for a straight forward CT scan of the head with contrast, and I requested a TOTAL price for it. It seemed like the hospital was using a bait and switch technique. They lured me in to authorizing the procedure for the cash price and then nailed me later using the supplemental billing clause. I thought about fighting this billing legally, but the expense was not worth the benefit. Would you pay thousands of dollars for the service my wife recieved. I thought about the fine print issue and how they used it to their advantage. How many other people have been taken advantage of under more desperate life threatening cicumstances. This whole ordeal really taught me a lesson: Read the fine print even if I am near death and in desperate need of health care.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:03:00 AM
Rholmgren -

I too have seen shocking evidence of this two tier system. My enlightment also came when my wife had a problem. She had to have a special hospital proceedure which her physician ordered.

It turned out that there was a question under our insurance policy about coverage of that particular proceedure, which was later fortunately answered in a satisfactory way, but not before I had received a real education.

When insurance was initially declined for this proceedure, we got a bill for many, many thousands of dollars from the hospital. Then, as things got straightened out, that bill took a big change. Insurance ended up paying a little, we paid a little, and the rest of the bill just went away because our insurance company had been involved.

This opened our eyes to what is going on. Hospitals might save a person's life, but if that person is not insured and has assets, those assets will be bled to death before the experience is over with.

I don't know how they rationalize the difference in charges when someone is not insured, but I do know the hospitals take unfair advantage of people in this way. They think it is alright to bankrupt people who are either not on poverty assistance (medi-CAL, which is part of the state welfare system), or privately insured. And even those who are privately insured can be bankrupted by this two-tiered rate system if the insurance decides a particular treatment was unnecessary, even if the physician wanted it done.

You don't hear much about this kind of thing on the news. That surprises me considering the impact it can have on the lives of middle class people throughout our society.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:36:00 AM
Thank you 2 everyone for sharing thoughts on the hospital double standard. It helps just to know we are not alone in experiencing this problem.
We2

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:07:00 AM
We want to add a couple of lines. There is so much more to life even in little old Murrieta besides politics. This blog is the only such place that we know of in Murrieta so it would be nice if there was more balance to the kind of matters being discussed. That would mean the political folks would need to back away just a little bit to make room in the strings for other topics. We don't know if many other people would be interested in seeing a variety of other local subjects in the blog, but we would. We know people have interests besides politics.
We2

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 11:43:00 AM
We2: Amen, brother and sister. Amen.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:54:00 PM
Sounds good to me... There's more to life than political chatter.

My wife and I stopped by a couple of the new places at the Murrieta Spectrum the other day. The Italian restaurant was nice. Pizza was great, and the price of that pizza was so reasonable that it tasted even better. Can't wait for the Comp USA to open. That will prove to be a major anchor for the whole commercial area west of the freeway... I have been travelling far out of town since about, let me think, about 1993 or so to get to a Comp USA. But a Frys would be nice in town, too.

Enough small talk. Back to work.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:03:00 PM
I almost forgot. Agree or disagree with the action, the House just got through (today) passing a revised endangered species act. Probably still a lot for everyone to debate on all sides of this issue, but one thing I really like. And that is that they are finally saying that if the government takes someones property rights away, at least the government should pay for the taking that has occurred. I never thought I would see this day. I believe in the government's right to take land to protect endangered species, but I've always said that anything taken from anyone should be paid for, no exceptions. Maybe that's the real estate guy in me talking, but it's who I am. Now someone's going to be mad at me for bringing up a political matter. I guess it just shows that politics affect us all the time in lots of different ways.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:47:00 PM
I am getting kind of tired between the coincidence between 100 degree Santa Ana weather and a rash of wildfires. We get this pattern a couple of times a year and it seems that there are some freaks out there who wait for the perfectly worse time to set fire in some rugged unburned areas. Keep on the look out. I bet it is the same person or group of people every year. They need to get caught.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:52:00 PM
JL Kunkle,
Why don't you open a few more strings for the different interests in town? You could have one for health and welfare; restaurant reviews, clubs, movie reviews, school happenings and then of course politics and city council happenings and todays news. Heck you can even add one for talking about finance or sports. You've done an really good job so far. The more interest in the topis the more opinions you'll see.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:54:00 PM
Whats kind of interesting is the way so many subjects loop back into politics. Some obvious examples: Health & Welfare loop to various potential subjects such as socialized medicine. Restaurant reviews take us into development and the need for more quality, upscale establishments. (Not more of the lower rung fast food restaurants, please). School happenings unfortunately involve school boards and teachers unions. Everything mixes together like a big political soup. And looks who's in charge of the local political soup kitchen. The disfunctional Murrieta City Council. It's enough to make you lose your appetite.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:22:00 PM
How can anyone resist an opening like this one? If you watched Seinfield, you'll get it... So the Murrieta City Council is a political soup kitchen. Who would the Soup Nazi be? Does ANYONE really not see the same person as I do in the Soup Nazi role? I love it. This is just too funny.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:33:00 PM
On a different topic..Why can't anyone get from point A to point B in Murrieta and Temecula without talking on a cell phone! Twice today, someone almost ran into me, once on Cal Oaks and once on Winchester. On both occasions the other driver was busy yacking on the phone. This is one thing that makes me angry, and as a Buddhist I actually try HARD not to get angry. But it is not only annoying when they drive way under the speed limit and cut you off, but dangerous. I thought there was a law..

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:03:00 PM
Too funny 6:33, Warnie sure does fit that role and his antics are even more comical!!!

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:28:00 PM
I heard that a hands free set up does not do much good at lowering the distraction factor. I guess the distraction is in the concentration during conversation and not the act of holding the cell phone itself. I am sorry Jenny but I am guilty of cell phone over use while driving. What is the solution besudes an out right ban?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:33:00 PM
Warnie E could also be Colonel Klink from Hogans Heroes.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:38:00 PM
Jenny -
The law in California is remarkably vague. What it comes down to is that if you cause an accident while doing something that inhibited your driving abilities, you have done something wrong. Of course, that leaves the door wide open for lawyers to make a case that the accident was unrelated to what you were doing, because (they would argue) what you were doing did not inhibit your driving abilities, and was therefore a mere coincidence. All of which of course allows lawyers to make their yacht payments.
Driving cars is an inherently dangerous thing to do. But people do it because it is necessary. And cell phone users make the same kind of case for using cell phones. Crazy, huh? In California, it would take a miracle to get a law passed that would make it illegal to use a cell phone in a car. But there is partial hope at least, in that it may be possible to get a law requiring that cell phone use by a driver be restricted to hands-free units.
It may sound like a useless exercise, but I can tell you from experience in my own life that making a case for such issues with lawmakers eventually pays off. The result may not be the exact result you'd like to see, but still some meaningful progress can be made.
Le Squire

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:49:00 PM
7:38 and 7:28 - By the nature of your responses, the truth came out: Both of you proved that you DID get who it is that fits the role of the Soup Nazi. And that, my friends, makes the whole thing even funnier.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:54:00 PM
No more like Sergeant Shultz. I hear nothing, I see nothing…I do nothing.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:58:00 PM
7:58 I never knew a sense of stupidity could be conveyed in as few words as you have managed to convey it. Your written words come across with a thud, kind of like the sound of thoughts trying to get through the thick wall of a numbskull.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:15:00 PM
Ahhh 8:15, my words are short, but yet true.

I hear nothing:

Warnie only listens to what’s going on in the council meeting that night and makes his decision what is popular in the room, not stepping back and finding out what the other 99% this community feels or needs, when things are going good people are not as active as people who are feeling wronged, a true council member will look at the whole picture.

I see nothing:

This guy has no vision of the future, he still wants to live in the past, people are moving to Murrieta and Temecula, we can’t close the city down we need to plan for influx of growth not hide from it. Temecula is dealing with the situation we’re not, Warnie and some people want to live a La Cresta lifestyle on a Murrieta budget.

I do nothing:

Well kinda self-explanatory, he doesn’t attend the amount state, local or regional committees that the other council members do. I guess image is everything.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 8:53:00 PM
8:53 that about sums up Warnie E. The analogies are just too funny and yet in a scary way too close to reality.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:13:00 PM
Short but true? The "I" "I" "I" refer to you. If you are not Kelly S. (and I assume you are not), you are simply full of the stink of his self-infected reasoning, and fouling the blog with it. When you are through, please remember to wash your hands.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:13:00 PM
Anon 10:13

That’s it?

That is the best you can do?

I would have thought you’d have something to say on my comments on Warnie and my opinion on how I think he represents and tries to run our city, something more than washing my hands.

Well okay here goes, wash your hands too…

By Anonymous, at Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:50:00 PM
There it is friends. The Van Haaster agenda starts. I predictd it would come and it will. Behind these Anons is Kelly or Little Mac or Van Haaster. Enochs may be worthless, no doubt, but so is this council as a whole. There is no cohesion or working process. There is Enochs doing little and Seyarto working his revenge. We need new blood, people working for the people. No agendas.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:26:00 AM
10:50 You come up short again. This time on intellect. Your arguement is leaking (and again, the substance comes out smelling bad). Many agree that Warnie is divisive. Being divisive is the worst possible quality in a politician. But in this particular quality, he is a brother of Kelly. In the quality of divisiveness, they are like twins. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Warnie and Kelly. There you have it, chum.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:33:00 AM
Everyone has an agenda Jeff and only a fool would believe when someone claims they do not have one. 7:33 is a Warnie E minnion and the claim that W.E. is related to K.S. is lame and worthless. That's it. W.E. stands for Worthless Enochs.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 8:14:00 AM
Hi. I also have noticed similarities between Kelly and Warnie. For one, they both act like everyone in the world is attacking them.
In fact, I think they are both good men at heart. And in fact, except maybe Jeff, I don't think anyone has ever said (or even implied) either one of them might be "on the take" or whatever. What is bad is that both of them have some very controversial political ideas, and both of them have a way of creating a deep divide in the public. Real political talent comes from the ability to unify, but both of these guys want to rip their opponents.
Warnie and Kelly: The public is aware that both of you are honest, law-abiding citizens. Please, please, please, as important elected officials, stop looking at everyone who disagrees with you as your enemy, and start trying to unify the citizens of the town you live in.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 8:25:00 AM
At 8:14 Rholmgren had the most clever moment of his life. It was his high point. And still, it was about 600 feet below sea level.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 8:30:00 AM
Yes 8:30 and even at that point you are still craning your head upward at the rest of us as you sink further into the depths of stupidity.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 8:54:00 AM
Excellent comeback Rholmgen. You always manage to win these dogfights. Why would that be?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 9:30:00 AM
Who let the Rholmgren out?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 9:37:00 AM
Those who get in and “mix it up” in this political blog are sometimes mean spirited and sometimes public spirited. Both kinds of people - both kinds of thinking - are around us all the time, but are not always expressed. In here, in this blog, the big picture can be seen. When even anonymous thoughts can be expressed freely, you know you are getting a genuine taste of people’s thoughts and attitudes. It is good to know what those thoughts and attitudes are, even if we do not agree with them.

If someone plants an accusation on the blog anonymously, such as for example an accusation of drug use, it should be considered as solid as the reputation of it’s source, which is nonexistent. If someone anonymously cites a series of “facts”, with nothing to back up those “facts”, they are very possibly not facts.

With these caveats, we can still benefit from the anons. We can see attitudes, conceptions and misconceptions, private prejudices, and personal ideals that would never otherwise be seen. And sometimes maybe even a jewel of an idea that someone is too shy to hold up and call their own.

To those who use their own names, their partial names, character names, and all the anons, I just want to again say my own personal “Thanks” for everything you post in the forum. I know that some people post in more ways than one - (whether intentionally left there or not, the clues are obvious) - but, for me at least, that just makes the puzzle all the more interesting to contemplate.

And again, we all owe a continuing “Thanks” to JL Kunkle, whose creation and guidance of this Murrieta forum has made it an important element of the public life in our town.

Tom Suttle

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 9:52:00 AM
On the phone issue, (people not being able to get from point A to point B without chatting on the phone) short of banning them, and I don't want that, perhaps some Public Service Announcements from Police Chiefs regarding the hazards of hand-helds while driving. Perhaps a few billboards on the 15 and 215. "Hang Up And Drive..please"
I realize that sometimes there are emergency situations, or at least important ones..ie; "Mom, I've been waiting in front of school for you to pick me up for 1/2 an hour..where ARE you?" (Usually stuck on Murrieta Hot Springs road, but that's a whole different issue!) "I'll be there in a minute.." and then HANG UP! Although I'm not using "psychic powers" here, (yet another issue, heehee) one can usually tell that many people on the phone on the road are having looong conversations, and probably conversations that could be held at point B. That, my fellow bloggers is the problem. Not the guy calling for road directions, or a parent reassuring a stuck child, but chatting. Anyhoo, that's my opinion..what's yours?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 11:34:00 AM
I'd like to make two comments.

1st to Jenny: Your opinion is a good one. If we can get everyone to agree, this will be a safer world to drive in. Those constant cell phone users have become a real danger out there.

2nd to Everyone: This blog is super. But from what I can see the people who are doing 95% of the writing are only a few people. I think even the ANON group is only a couple people, judging from the input of those ANONs. Everyone from every part of the public should try to get more people making entries. Liberals, conservatives, Kelly fans, Warnie fans, Little Mac fans, Gibbs fans, Ostling (who's that?) fans, dog lovers and everyone else. The blog is good, but it could get a whole lot better.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 12:10:00 PM
Mr. Kunkle:

Might we have a topic started regarding the coming election next year in which there will be 3 open seats on the Murrieta Council.

To those who frequent this site:

It would be informative to know your vision of the future of Murrieta so that candidates contemplating running for council next year might understand how best to represent your views.

In Murrieta's recent past, the citizenry were outspoken that they wanted retail anemities and flood control, a local based police department and a city operated fire department to replace the volunteer system. However, the overriding issue was that the things they wanted were absolutely not to be attained by raising taxes.

These were difficult times that saw crisis such as not having enough funds to keep the street lights operating and even then, the citizens would not consider/vote for an increase in taxes.

Developers were encouraged to take a look at Murrieta's future, hoping they would take enough of an interest in order to bring the monies necessary to fund that which the community desired.

Perhaps we have evolved to a degree of sophistication to realize that an increase in taxation would have been/would better suit that which we desire as a community.

Elections of the near past consisted largely of homemade signs and personal contact/knowledge of our neighbors who would attempt to represent us.

Now, as in most elections of the modern world, to engage the public takes funds and unless one is wealthy, financial support is necessary.

The question becomes, how do you think candidates should raise these necessary funds that would be acceptable to the citizenry?

Is it possible to get past the anger at how the prior council members apparently did not represent your views of how to fund the amenities you desire, and outline a format that you, all of you would find more acceptable?

1. How should we fund amenities and improvements?

2. How should campaigns be financed?

Isn't this a dialog worthy of discussion as we look forward to the future of the city?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 12:37:00 PM
12:37
I'm not sure, but I would place bets that the biggest issue in the coming year's election would be directly related to multifamily, apartment & condominium (medium and high density housing) that appears to be on its way to permanently and massively altering the commercial core of Murrieta west of the 15. This is already a scalding hot debate topic, and I think it is headed for a meltdown, especially if one particular council member keeps on saying to hell with what the long time residents want.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 12:56:00 PM
To JL Kunkle, given the requests for multiple threads, maybe a switch to a different blog style should be considered. I would suggest using software that would allow for multiple tracks and would also show recent posts that the individual logging in has not yet read or marked as read.

I think that the suggestions for topics have been excellent.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 12:56:00 PM
Can someone tell me, who's seats are open?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 12:58:00 PM
8:25,

Good points. Although I have implied that the big three are or were on the take, that statement comes with verying degrees of the take. In the smallest amounts, the power given to the politician for his vote could be considered "take". It can be the fact that tyhe politician doesn't have to put up a stake to run, none of his money goes into the election, which is not the case with most people running for Councilmen. I truly may have implied that Kelly was on the take, but I don't THINK it was in a cash payout. Although I don't know it for a fact, just as no one knows for a fact that he hasn't been. The 500K contribution is really the guiding light. If it looks like a snake, in some ways it usually is. If someone can tell me another reasonable reason for the contribution, and not the Rholmgren or Seyarto spin, I would change my feelings.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 1:05:00 PM
Thanks for the clarification, Jeff. Someone in power could (conveniently) take it the wrong way unless things are verrrrry carefully explained. When dealing with people like that, you have to watch your step.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 1:29:00 PM
re: the 500,000 contribution by the developers in the recent recall election.

No one questions the "relationship that one councilman has with a well known newspaper reporter who during the recall campaign created a daily, often front page diatribe of allegations and untruths in order to advance said councilman's agenda.

What do think was the monetary value of that form of adverse publicity in a daily newspaper and how could any individual possibly hope to finance a counter advertising campaign?.

Nonetheless, one recall candidate accepted developer donations to counter the attack. Two did not, apprehensive of being connected with any developers and not having any history of receiving monies in this manner.

The developers surely had their own motiviations which is not a part of this discussion.

The point to be made is again about monies. How does one counter the "free" publicity by a prominent newspaper which is blatantly biased in their reporting?

The election result was going to be the same with or without the developers contribution.

The only winners of the developer's money was the outside firm who made big money by selling the developers on an unworthy campaign.

We were all pawns and there was only one loser.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 2:22:00 PM
Agreed: Both newspapers were biased. In fact, both papers took strong editorial stands against the recall.
Agreed also: Two recall targeted council members did not take campaign monies (because it would look bad to do so). And, they knew that if they did not accept the monies, they would get greater mileage out of the funds being spent by others who were very professional in their efforts. No need to get one's self involved if someone else is so selfless (chuckle) that they will do it for you.
Some of us had almost forgot about this old garbage that you are digging back up.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 2:45:00 PM
2:45:53 ~~~ Did you not hear KS and JvanH denouncing the spending of hundreds of thousands of dollars on their behalf? Did you not hear their cries of outrage? They knew that if they did not denounce what was going on, it would look like they were giving it their silent approval. That's why they kept saying Stop! Stop! Stop! ~~~ Oops. Hold on there. I just made a mistake. I never did hear them say even a single little word against hundreds of thousands of dollars being spent in the effort to save their political skins. I guess that means they did give their silent approval. Now, why on earth would they have stayed silent? Knowing those guys, there must have been some really big time ideals involved. ~~~ Oops. Hold on there. I just made another mistake.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 3:05:00 PM
you choose to ignore the basic question.

There was a constant diatribe issued daily by Ms. Mitchell on the front page of the Californian obviously supporting the recall allegations.

Yes the paper did issue an editorial presenting a lukewarm statement against the recall to give the appearance of being unbiased.

Persons like yourselves revel in the distruction of anyone in a leadership position.

The question is: How does one have the funds to oppose a biased newspaper's reporting.

Isn't that the open discussion?

The funding of those who would run for office (or defend themselves, as the case may be).

The example given is the recent recall election but we are about to experience another election, do you have qualified, properly spoken suggestions to contribute?

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 3:21:00 PM
How can one counter the logic a mind such as that of 3:21? Clearly it is impossible. So, I'm going to switch sides. OK, comrade, let's go get that pro-recall jerk, the one known as Ms. Mitchell! Since my brain is so much smaller than yours, please take the ball now and start laying out the long, long list of specific examples of the horribly biased reporting of that radical Ms. Mitchell! Make sure this long list is written in a clear, detailed, unambiguous, unbiased way so that even someone like me can understand exactly what terrible things Ms. Mitchell did. I know it will take at least a few minutes for you to start blogging your long list of examples, so I'm going to get a jump on things and start making my Ms. Mitchell voodoo doll right now so I can start pushing pins in it as soon as possible.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 3:42:00 PM
Are we going to see the same recycled list of people running for council? I think that most of the past losers would still be bad news for Murrieta today. Why are alot of you still so stuck in the past? Take that gear lever out of reverse and put it in drive.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 5:28:00 PM
3:21,
Hello my new political friend... Are you there?
3:42

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 5:40:00 PM
3:21 (Is that you Kelly you sly fox) and 3:42,
Since posting and arguing back and forth with Councilmen Seyarto, he is the only one who has mentioned the Laura Mitchell in a negative light. Now I do have an e-mail that I sent Ms Mitchell during the days before the recall election, before my participation on this blog site challanging things she said positive about the "little three" and she wrote back that our dear Councilmen was writing everytime she published anything saying she was biased. I can copy that e-mail on here anytime someone cares. I think that this post from 3:21 smells funny. Laura Mitchell gives very little opinion and just gives us quotes from the horses mouth. By the way, didn't the Californian come out for the "little three" and against any recall vote???
So, 500K is the price that a few comments (if they were made) from a reporter is worth to counter this massive negative opinion??? Shoot, what will they pay me for being quiet!!! Send your donations directly to Rholmgren for the Bill Frist/Tom Delay Murrieta chapter defense fund. He needs your help.

The 500K was plain and simple a incentive to the "little three" to keep them where they wanted them, as a team and for future votes. How much money do you think came out of the
"little threes" personal pockets to fight that recall. Seyarto has already come on this blog and said he spent "0".
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 5:42:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Of course you don't want any history when in comes to local politics and the recall. Thats move forward with blinders on.

Oh and lets not talk about the recent history of any of our current White House conservatives.......lets talk about good things......like Iraq.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 5:45:00 PM
Jeff: Dadburnnit, talking Washington politics ain't gonna do diddly squat for the dagnabbed bullhockkie we have to deal with here in Murrieta. Every time you start talking Washington, you blow the focus on the here and now.
Miffed in Murrieta

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:00:00 PM
Miffed: Kelly sends his dog out to bark at people and take everyones attention off of serious matters.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:07:00 PM
Jeff I know enough about the history I just think it is only productive to move forward. Since when do allegations mean guilt? The seriousness of the charge means absolutely nothing unless real evidence leads to guilt by trial. Jeff what if I alleged that you are embezzelling funds from your company? If I reacted like you I would already have the knee jerk reaction of concluding you were guilty and proceed to try to figure out your sentence. Time will tell if any of the Republicans being accused of anything are guilty. The Democrats had better be careful though because this witch hunt that they are currently on could boomerang and expose their flawed behavior too. It just seems so sad that their only hope is to tear others down. They know that their agenda has no hope in hell when it comes to winning elections. Democrats are uninspiring and negative. Their good news is tied to bad news and destruction for others. How sad. Where are the inspiring Democratic voices? Where are the new Democratic ideas? SILENCE SILENCE

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:09:00 PM
I know this other political whatever is serious, but we need to keep some local focus. Dagnabbit.
Miffed

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:09:00 PM
The local focus is all good too. That shiznit is interestin'

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 6:13:00 PM
to 12:58

The three open seats on the council next year will be: Seyarto who has stated he will not run again, Ostling who has stated he will not run again and Gibbs, whom it may be presumed will run.

I propose: Barbara Nugent, Debbie Butler, Edward Faunce and Jeff from this blog site consider running for council. They have all been outstanding critics of past councils and eloquent in presenting their positions. They, along with Mr Gibbs, should they assume the responsibilty, propose their ideas for the future of Murrieta, how they will fund their election race and how they will fund any projects they propose, that we might begin to consider the most worthy to represent us.

Enochs and McAlister's seats will terminate two years thereafter so conceivably within three years an entirely new council of five will have responsibility for the leadership of our community.

Let the new era for the city begin.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:03:00 PM
Instead of let the new era begin it should be let the comedy of errors begin. The above mentioned group is awful. NEXT

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:08:00 PM
.......SINCERITY METER ALERT!....
Blogsters, be warned!!!!!
The post at 7:03 set off the Sincerity Meter which I keep attached to my computer at all times. Not only did the meter start making a quacking sound (which it does when something sounds REALLY insincere), but it almost blew a fuse.
I clicked the red button for an analysis request on the meter screen, and got the following message:
THIS IS NOT A DRILL. BLOG AT 7:03 WAS DESIGNED TO MAKE NAMED BLOGSTERS SEND UP INPUT WHICH COULD THEN BE SHOT DOWN BY ANON IN HIDING. REPEAT. THIS IS NOT A DRILL.
I've never seen anything like this on my computer before, so I just wanted to warn everyone.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:18:00 PM
I think that Ed Faunce should run. My opinion, just from the blog, however I would really be behind anyone that showed me a backbone, stood up for Murrieta and a desire to have these developers and builders work for us. Someone that can be as equally as tough on the businesses of this town and fair with the opinions of it's residents. We need a voice or two or three on this council. One who speaks for us not himself. One that cares about our homes and is willing to put the extra effort in. A resident that isn't looking for the power of all this but to be a part of the best community in the country. I am not that guy, wish I was. I don't have more then the few minutes a day to write on this blog. Its what 715 as I write and I'm still in my office and need to head home to my family. One day when I'm older and crabbier, not today. But what I am willing to do is put my resources and effort behind these new leaders. Lets have them stand up and I will gladly follow and support them.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:21:00 PM
This is 7:18 again. The alarm that went off on my computer at 7:03 won't stop quacking. The Sincerity Alert level on the 7:03 blog was so severe that it may have broken my computer. Damn it. Sorry for the language, but this is really upsetting.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 7:26:00 PM
OK everyone. This is 7:16/7:26. No, I do not really have a quacking computer. But I am certain the 7:03 blog was a set up, probably by 3:21 or kin thereof.

A famous prize fighter once said, "The wise man can play the fool, but the fool cannot play the wise man." Someone out there needs to wise up if they're going to try to be clever.

By Anonymous, at Friday, September 30, 2005 10:59:00 PM
I don't know how to follow the person with the quacking computer, but I'll try. Just read the article in the Press Enterprise about Temecula's "Great Tractor Race". Made me think. They also have their Film Festival and Balloon and wine Festival. And Murrieta has the Dysfunctional City Council Festival. I want our town to be known for something else. Has this town never had a leader with visions of anything except houses and fast food restaurants? I mean sure, a little idea here, and a little idea there. But what about real vision? Temecula has done it, why can't we?

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 7:42:00 AM
Good weekend morning everyone,
7:42 raises a good point. Now I know everyone might want to yell at me for bringing this up again, but it's as clear as day to me that the "Golden Triangle" (the Dominigoni property) is Murrieta's one real chance for a first class landmark that could really put a favorable glow on the city. I wish it's destiny were in the hands of the people, but we're going to have to just hope for the best, because the way things are now it's all a private developer's decision to make. Yes, the whole future of what Murrieta will be known for could depend on the flip of a coin by Dominigoni/Lewis. My opinion (and it's an opinion backed up by a lot of years in the real estate biz) is that piece of land - its unique position in the economic layout of our whole region - is really the #1 key to our commercial and economic future.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 9:16:00 AM
Forgot to post my tag - 9:16 was JLM

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 9:17:00 AM
JLM You are right on. How about a restraunt row area near old town also?

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 9:36:00 AM
Some very good posts here. The Golden triangle at least in theory because of the visibility factor is our chance to put Murrieta on the map. I had suggested earlier that we make this area a restaurant row, I think Rholmgren has the right idea, but old town is far too isolated now. We have tried to make our old town resemble Temecula's but the right businesses haven't moved in there. Temecula is full of the bustling antique stores and small specialty shops. Let's do this right. We as residents should have good visibility of what is in the plan. I heard some very vague statements from our Councilman Seyarto but he said we would be told at a later time. I think the time is NOW. If we don't have some lead time to discuss what the plan is we will end up with an apartment complex and a taco bell there.....can they stack two taco bells on top of each other to get the devlopers more money?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:01:00 AM
This is food for thought. Jeff has an idea worth discussing. If there are too many apartments to leave room for all the needed fast food restaurants, how about a fast food high rise? Could even be the worlds tallest building, rising up through a sea of apartments. Each floor a seperate fast food restaurant. Taco Bell, McDonalds, Burger King, Del Taco, Subway this and that Sandwiches, and more and more taco and burger franchises. This building could reach the moon. Murrieta has found its claim to fame!

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 10:10:00 AM
J.L.M. It's likely you and I run in different parts of the same professional crowd, so this is not going to be news to you. Some of the rumble about the Murrieta Triangle is that condos could be part of the mix since that appears to be what Murrieta is all about now. This topic gives me heartburn every time I think about it. But the Lewis Group over in Upland is a great company. If they do it the way it should be done, the Golden Triangle could be the commercial crown jewel of their professional lives. I just hope they can see beyond what's going on in the core areas of our commercial (???) corridors.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 11:58:00 AM
To our fellow residents - Murrieta, Temecula, surrounding communities, or wherever you may be. When people have good ideas they like to share them. Like a lot of other people I and some others like to shoot the breeze about simple things like politics and the weather. We’ve done it for years. It has been said in this blog site before but I want to say it again. Next time you and your friends get together to socialize, try this. Drag along a laptop computer. You can be in a place like one of the coffee shops that has a wifi service or anywhere else if you have another kind of access. But as you shoot the breeze if someone has a good idea or a point they really want to make, log on to this or another blog and share the message with the world. Two or even several people can use the same computer for this kind of get together. It’s fun and worthwhile to share thoughts among friends (even friends who don’t always see eye tto eye on everything). Sharing the experience with the whole community is even more enjoyable. And then when people respond its like your small group has grown. If you have some family or pals you’re used to getting together with, we recommend you try it. Get out with some old friends and family, share your laptop computer, and let everyone in the community join in on a little bit of your discussions. But one thing you have to be willing to do is let people with different opinions borrow your computer without getting mad. (That last line is an inside joke).

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:02:00 PM
I'm tired of hearing about condos and apartments. I like what has happened along the old storefront areas of Washington Avenue in Murrieta. It looks and feels really good to me. Thanks to Kelly Seyarto and Jack vanHaaster. You guys deserve a long round of applause.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 1:23:00 PM
JVH has an office in old town. Seems old town was pushed to the max with the least to offer. All that money spent, looks nice, but where are the attractions? Get my flat fixed, walk over to check the guns out, walk down to Joanies and have a drink, cross the street to get the wife some veggies, pick up a lotto ticket next door, get a hair cut, and go pick my car back up. I don't think I brought that much revenue into town. What are your thoughts on pushing old town?

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:19:00 PM
Sometimes the way to bring a community up is by its bootstraps. Old town was always quaint, but it had grown old and was in some ways the pits. Like an old horse, it had come to the point where many people would have said to put it out of its misery. Or I guess it could have been left to rot away. It took an act of faith to bring the old horse back to life. She's still not all the way out of the woods, but she's heading in the right direction. I don't like every single thing my good councilmen Seyarto and vanHaaster have ever done. But old town is a plus, regardless of wheter JVH has an office there or at the North Pole. Makes no difference. On this point, vanHaaster and Seyarto have won a tip of my hat.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:40:00 PM
We again have some choices to make as a community. Was "old" Murrieta a place where people pushed and shoved with no elbow room. Doesn't appear that way to me. I say "no" to any condos or apartments in the triangle.

I say that, yes the old town area is much improved. We have again limited ourselves, with only two lanes down Washington through this area. We have added parking here, but to attract a top notch restaurant or two we need more parking, like 2:19 said, now what can you really do there? It is not a place where the merchants get visibility. Who wants to go there? If not for the Mill restaurant, I don't know how many of us would ever see it. Since we now have a second Post Office, there is little to draw anyone. I throw that up to all of you. What goes here to improve our town. Oh I once took my truck to have the windshield repaired down there.

Lets not let the builders and City Council mess up the triangle. We really need to have an input here. We will have more and more of the same buildup of jack in the box's and apartments.

Oh and thanks JVH and KS and little DMAC for finding a new way to beat the system with Developer lawsuits.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:55:00 PM
JVH, KS and McAl have their good points. The tecnology edge that Murrieta has with super high speed access is a big one. (I wish everyone in town really was able to get it though.) And the civic center looks like its going to be a good one. And Seyarto is an educated guy who's always, or so it seems, trying to learn more. I like that.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 2:59:00 PM
Jeff - The triangle is probably not going to see a Jack in the Box. (I hope I don't eat those words). But everyone who cares about the future of this town should recognize that the triangle is geographically and economically the biggest thing this town will ever have at stake. If Murrieta can offer any kind of encouragement to the Domenigonis or their developers to put some really world class project in that spot, the city will reaps the rewards of that decision forever.
Unfortunately, there are long established legal vestings in place for that property that make the political opinions of you and I almost meaningless.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:10:00 PM
1:23 and the rest of the Rholmgrens don't want to hear about anything negative on here because the negatives are always listed against Van Haaster and Seyarto. These are the same people that have no problem blasting Enochs, Gibbs and Ostling. They don't want to hear the negatives because they want most of what has been done in the past by Van Haaster and McAlister and Seyarto, to stay in the past. More new people move here everyday. They won't know the wrongs that we are saddled with. They will vote for the loudest voice. The developers because they have the loudest voice will win their vote. It is up to the residents today to fight the battle. To make known the agendas that are played out behind closed doors. Some say I'm negative, but its realism. If we sit back and say thanks for something they all owe us, what good does that do. The "old town" area needed something and they gave it something. But any Councilmen can give us something. Lets find ones that give us the best. Lets keep the ones out that give us something but also take it right back in other areas. Would anyone trade our beautified old town area for something even better?

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:14:00 PM
3:14 Yes, developer money is a strong political force. But don't forget that there are other forces at work, as the recall results proved. That being said, if you give any politician enough rope (time) he or she will hang him or herself, or come close to it. Eventually, unless a politician sits as quietly as a fly on the wall, enemies will be made. A really good politician will work to keep as much peace as possible, but as long as there are differences among people there will be enemies. At the mid point between elections, there is a time of opportunity for calm reasoning. The anger and bitter words will start up soon enough. Let's take a moment to quietly reflect on all the problems our city faces, and where we want it to go.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 3:50:00 PM
Jeff any condos in the Golden Triangle would be a mistake. Jeff if the triangle area gets screwed up with alot of fast food and big box stores then I may have to switch over to your side. There needs to be at least one upscale area in Murrieta and the triangle is a jewel of a location. If the developers were on the ball they would add as many water features as possible to drown out freeway noise and also put green belts next to the freeways. Jeff maybe a restaraunt row would be nice along Madison south of Walmart.

3:14 you are all mixed up. I want everyone to remember all of Seyarto's, Vanhaster's, and Mcalister's accomplishments from the past. Their accomplishments are many and newcomers to Murrieta need to be reminded who was responsible for the civic center, downtown, and the Los Alamos Sports Park etc. Who would want to bury such great achievements in the past? Oh I know: The do nothing and divisive Enochs and his almost silent partner Mr. Ostling. The jury is still out on Mr. Gibbs. So far he seems to have good judgement.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 5:21:00 PM
I have to say a couple things about the Triangle. Let me say right from the beginning that if any of this sounds like it’s intended to knock someone on the council, it’s not.

Years ago, around the time of the RogersDale controversy, and even a little before that time, I had started sitting in on some of the council meetings. I found the city politics mildly interesting at the time, and there wasn’t much on TV on Tuesday nights back then. Of course now “House” is on Tuesday nights, and I’m too busy watching that to care about most of what’s going on at city hall.

Anyway, things started getting interesting at the council meetings back when the RogersDale show came to town.

Some people say RogersDale and Zev Buffman were a dog and pony show. I don’t know, but maybe they were right. But that was then, and this is now, so does any of it still matter? Well, maybe it does matter. Because the Domenigoni family still is involved as owners in that Triangle, and for a long time they took the RogersDale matter very seriously. And they weren’t alone. Mr. Buffman was a very smart man, and he was pretty darn good at promoting very fancy sounding ideas.

One particular councilman showed a bit of flair back then for catching a political wind and riding it for all it was worth. I remember watching that councilman as he spoke warm words of welcome to Mr. Buffman, and as he praised the Domenigoni family for their historic role as prominent founding family in Riverside County. And then, I remember the way his tune started changing when public opposition to the project became apparent. And you know, that’s politics I guess. In many ways it’s good for a politician to go along with his public if the public thought is changing on some issue. We don’t live in a dictatorship, and elected officials should be responsive.

But this councilman changed in a way that struck me as being harsh, and as being none too gentle to the Domenigoni family. I don’t know if he left the Domenigonis with lingering impressions about the way they had been treated, but it sure made a lingering impression on me, and I was just an onlooker.

And now here we are, years later, concerned with the future of what is probably our city’s prime asset. An asset with a future that is, as near as I can tell, legally left almost 100% to the discretion of the Domenigoni family. From what I’ve read, the Domenigonis sound like they want to leave Murrieta with something that will do the city proud. I hope so. Whatever rises on that prominent piece of dirt could become what people picture when they think of Murrieta.

If ever a mayor could put some fence-mending and personal PR work to good use, it would be now. But that’s only if he could make it seem sincere. If not, then we as a community should welcome the help of anyone who could help smooth the way for the best possible project in the Triangle.

This is a one-shot chance. Once that Triangle is developed, what’s done will be done for the rest of our lives. For better, worse, richer, etc. We’re going to have to live with it. Let’s hope it’s done right.
Tom Suttle

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 6:56:00 PM
There is another asset in Murrieta besides the Triangle and that is the Murrieta Hot Springs. It was an asset that had great potential.I used to go there about 15 years ago to enjoy the pool.I do not feel right about complaining about the lack of public access, since it is owned by a church, but I always felt that the Springs had alot of potential as an attraction if they were renovated properly. When I drive by there now and see busted up concrete slabs being used for retaining walls I just have to cringe. The Springs could be such a beautiful place but as of today it is more of an eye sore.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, October 01, 2005 7:22:00 PM
I remember the Rogerdale fiasco, and the ugly fight about it. A lot of us in town remember it. One thing most people never got was that the city could not stop Rogerdale. What stopped it was the economy was not right for it, and they could not get investors. Kelly Seyarto and Jack vanHaaster and Chuck Washington tried to tell people all this, but the emotions were too high for people to be rational. If the Domenigoni clan cares about Murrieta at all now it is thanks to the people who treated them with honest respect, and they were Kelly Seyarto, Jack vanHaaster, and Chuck Washington. Some of those who waged war against Rogerdale may not agree with any of this. But it's true. I hope it is now Kelly Seyarto and Jack vanHaaster who have the ear of the Dominigoni clan, because if anyone could provide friendly influence on behalf of Murrieta for the way the Golden Triangle ends up being developed, they are the ones who could do it.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:55:00 AM
JVH is an accountant. He is also is not a city official and needs to stay out of any development plans as he got us here and I am unhappy with the overcrowding and traffic. We have a chance to do this right, let's not play the sell out Murrieta plan for higher development payout. Seyarto will not be here and he is out for one thing, his political future. You don't win points fighting against the developers.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 9:48:00 AM
Has anyone else noticed that Kelly Seyarto's most recent entries in these strings have been getting less sarcastic and less defamatory than those he used to post? I remember lots of the 'old' Kelly's words, like when he made not very thinly veiled allegations about one or more persons using drugs ( and then he backed off what he said, saying it was a joke ); and when he said something which sounded ( coming from a public official ) like a veiled threat when he told someone just wait to see who gets the last big laugh in the end ( and then he later tried to explain away those words too ). And there have been many other examples. But Kelly Seyarto has been changing. This public official still finds ways to take pokes and smears at people or their thoughts, but he has toned it down and has become a better person to communicate with. As one of the anonymous bloggers he likes to chide, I want to say to Kelly Seyarto that I appreciate the change that I have noticed in his entries. It is good when a person demonstrates an ability to improve his attitude in dealing with others, and I think that is what we are seeing.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 10:45:00 AM
On Sept 28 some anon wrote in this string that Lucy Dunn is merely putting out housing propaganda for the state. I want to say that everyone who promotes any position is creating propaganda. You can call anything propaganda, whether it be good or bad, and so what?

Propaganda, the word, might mean something bad to you, but that is not a proper way to define the term. It can be spreading the word about something good. Your entry in this string and mine are both propaganda. You believe in your thought, I believe in mine.

And when you said someone is a propaganda puppet, what you are really saying is that she is promoting the position of someone else. Of course she is doing that, and it is just fine. Just like you do if you are a salesperson promoting a product for your boss or your company. You are being a propaganda puppet. What is the big deal? There is nothing wrong with that. So what if Lucy Dunn is being a salesperson by whatever term you want to use. That is a perfectly fine thing to do.

If you want to make a case against the product she is selling, that is fine. But if all you are doing is coming up with benign descriptive words in an empty attempt to make a point you are not getting anywhere.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:10:00 AM
the californian paper today says a new tv station starts up tomorrow in temecula. 1st local station it says? does anyone in this blog know who owns the station?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:47:00 AM
10:45 & 11:10 - This blog is an informal discussion. Everyone should feel like its ok to let the emotions fly, this is not a formal meeting. If names get called and people are jerks in one entry they cool off in the next. These are words we are using to express emotions and not sticks and stones if you know what I mean.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 1:50:00 PM
Californian says the planning commission on Weds will take up "A developer's request to rezone about 50 acres east of Jefferson Avenue and north of Lemon Street from business park zoning to allow for multifamily homes such as apartments, townhomes and condominiums." Some people may not be alright with this, but to me if it keeps the apartments out of the high commercial potential corridors it is not that bad.
Been There

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 2:51:00 PM
One nice feature that would be a plus for the Triangle would be parking structures. I think a large paved area would subtract beauty points from any project built there.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:13:00 PM
3:13 Agreeing about the parking structures, but hopefully sub-surface. If this limited piece of land is developed in a way that maximizes its unique potential, every square foot above ground level that can be artistically designed for commercial use should be so designed.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 3:20:00 PM
9:48 - If you, or Jack vH, or the bird singing in my tree right now could help that Triangle develop the way it should be developed, I would dance a cheer with pom poms. I don't care if you are a city official or just a lowly taxpayer. This town has a very limited geographical window of opportunity to become known for something other than crankiness and apartments, and that Triangle is the very heart of that opportunity. But don't make this hard on everyone. We should be able to make this happen without an old man dancing with pom poms.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:06:00 PM
My question is to Councilman Seyarto. To develop the triangle and keep any housing out of it, does the City have to make any concessions to the devlopers? Short and sweet, yes or no.

I would really like to see something like the walk outside of Universal Studios. Maybe not as crowded and a little more of Murrieta thrown in but the upscale restaurants, shops and hopefully a place for our young people to go. Keep the money in town. This would put Murrieta on the map. I've also asked about a water park? With the weather here it could stay open for long periods of time. Or an outside concert theatre for name entertainment, an inside center for the arts like Escondido has. Many many things can be added to our city that can generate real tax dollars and development dollars other then apartments and condos. Planning for extensive parking and Freeway access to not disrupt life in the areas of this new area. But if the apartments and condos keep sprouting you might as well just build a drive in and have a flea market every weekend.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:20:00 PM
11:10,
When someone comes in here like Ms Dunn representing the State, it is more then just a propaganda side. She is suppose to represent what is best for the citizens of the state. If she comes in with an agenda, hoping to help developers and not the citizens then she is just pushing for the same things as a politician. Big Business support. There is a difference between backing political contrbutors and standing up for the people. I think you can tell the difference. Ask the residents what they think about more apartments. It seems that most homeowners in this town would be against it. But if you can tell me why a normal homeowner would stand up and say we need more apartments then he had better tell me what benefits I the homeowner gains from it. I don't see any.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:27:00 PM
5:06,
The reason it would be better to keep Van Haaster out of developer negotiation is that it will cost this community something in return. He doesn't give his support for free. It will cost this community something. Like I asked Councilman Seyarto. What will having something nice, like the triangle, cost us in repayment in concessions elsewhere?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:31:00 PM
1:50,
If people don't have the self control or were not taught respect for people in general by their parents, where they must call names, then why would we respect anything they have to say. We as residents and homeowners have earned the right to demand respect of our government officials and should not act like 4 year olds and call names. If that is a persons intelligence level we should ignore them and send them back for their parents to have them taught. It is a direct reflection on the quality of parenting that they have gotten.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:36:00 PM
If I owned the triangle of gold, I would take advantage of the development rights that were vested back before the city was incorporated, and I would use those rights to build the most densely populated apartment complex the world has ever seen. There's tons of money in high density apartment construction in high traffic areas like the triangle of gold. And then I would name it Enochsville. And I would erect a 100 foot statue in the middle of the street (because there would be no parks in Enochsville) and that statue would be of Warnie Enochs. Why? Because I doubt my apartment project would be possible without the dysfunctional city council, and Warnie Enochs just happens to be mayor.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:27:00 PM
5:36 - 4 year olds? I am rubber, you are glue, whatever you say, bounces off of me and sticks to you!

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:32:00 PM
JVH or I mean 7:27,
There it is again, it is not Enochs fault just being Mayor, although it will be the cry of the bring back Van Haaster agenda. Wasn't Enoch the one that was quoted in the Insider as wanting a more upscale Murrieta, to the anger of Councilman Seyarto. It should really have a statue of JVH holding the hands of Seyarto and little Mac, kind of like Disney and Mickey Mouse at Disneyland.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:43:00 PM
5:36,
There you have it right.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:43:00 PM
The Disney people will be heard screaming all the way from Burbank if their man and their mice are desecrated in a manner such as is described by 7:43.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 7:51:00 PM
Jeff your posts tonight started with a spark of intelligence and then slid down a flaming hole of stupidity. Good job.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:28:00 PM
3:13 underground structures would be ideal. Jeff's waterpark idea is good but I think the space is too limited for that type of entertainment. Maybe an artificial river system with waterfalls would create a nice atmosphere. A hotel there would be awesome also. Along with underground parking maybe some of the complex could have an underground concert hall or other forms of entertainment. It would be a great use of space if the triangle development were multi-leveled. It could be a one stop entertainment area where maybe regional meetings could be held. Or the complex could have multi use areas for conventions.Maybe this parcel will have the highest construction cost per square foot for southwest Riverside County?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, October 02, 2005 8:43:00 PM
All quiet on the Murrieta front.

So from reading about this developer vs. city lawsuit that was settled, I find the lawsuit very distrubing. Here is a developer that didn't get a decision he liked, got Seyarto's and McAlister's vote but not the vote of the rest of the Council. He then sued the city but also named Ostling, Enochs and Gibbs personally in the suit. They were named personally in revenge for the vote they cast attempting to protect the city from a developer from taking advantage of all of us. They were backing our Planning departments decision in their votes while they developers Councilmen of course voted siding with the Developer over our City's Planning Commission findings. I find this tactic by these two Councilmen as a direct slap in the face to our city. The two worried that a developer who contributed to their side of the recall effort might not get his way. Doesn't this all show us the residents what is happening?? If a developer wanted to build a skyscraper in the middle of a sub-division, ole Kelly and Dougie would vote YES.

I don't care what good things that Seyarto or Van Haaster have done in the past. They have sold us down the river to development in this city. What is proposed in upcoming plans will only further cause more issues for all of us who live here today. Do any of us care about people migrating to Arizona? Do any of us see that as a problem? I go to the Grocery store and all I see are young families. I don't see any mass exodus by our young people. Seyarto will try and spin this, but thats all it is. It is spin to keep the developers happy. Have you EVER heard him in a post on this blog site ever, I mean ever, stand up and protect the current residents versus development???????? Ever? His concern always centers around the future residents that he wants to move here and fill the proposed apartment and condo complexes that development wants to slam down our throats. He never sides with us, protecting us the current homeowners. His side is on the developers bank accounts. He has even come on here and defended a developer over the developers potential loss of money over the issues surrounding this settled lawsuit. Now what Councilman cares if a developer has to spend extra money to do something right? Why aren't we asking that question. I perfer a councilman that stands up to developers running this city versus councilmen that developers have already bought and paid for.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:32:00 AM
Council man Seyarto, Is there any information you can share with us about something known to be in progress on the triangle? Or if not is it (a) still all completely up in the air or (b) a confidential business matter?

Everyone assumes the owners and developers are thinking about the triangle, but is anything of solid substance really happening?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:57:00 AM
The Desert Sun has reported, within the last several months, that the Riverwalk development has unhappy vendors and that some businesses are closing. Anything headed to the Murrieta Triangle, in the genre of Riverwalk, should carefully investigate what's happening in the Cochella Valley.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:31:00 AM
Ed,
I’m a little familiar with what’s going on in the Coachella Valley. Interesting economy out there in that part of the desert, with so much of it’s lifeblood flowing from a mix of fixed income retirees and the tourist industry. Gas price instabiltiy has big parts of the tourist and retail feeling edgy out there, and that has a ripple effect all over the area. Imagine what the hotel tourist industry people are thinking out in the desert with gas prices bouncing around at record levels? Holy Moley! The Desert Sun usually tries to put a good shine on it, but if I were thinking hotel or retail, I’d think twice about it. Not to knock the great Coachella Valley, which certainly has it’s highlights, but current economic realities considered, my own more conservative investment thoughts are staying much closer to home these days.
Been There

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:34:00 PM
No Kelly it seemed for a couple of days that no one was saying anything. So after reading the article in "your" insider newspaper I decided to comment on it. We can't really discuss the Triangle without some point to the direction it is going. We could wonder anything and hope for everything, but we need to know specifics.

My comments will never go away. I drive and live here and am reminded of the good and bad everyday. I could sit here and pat you on the back for some of the good but it doesn't fix the bad.
I know that is what you want and I'm sure the pressure from the developers to shut up people like me who have some vision to what they are attempting to do is great. Just keep talking as if all I am is negative, but it doesn't take away from your failures. Keep having people write in about the great job you have done. But I will keep us focused on what a Councilman should focus on.....the residents of this town, not the two kids that moved to Phoenix. Maybe they moved there to get away from our divisive City Council.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 12:44:00 PM
Jeff - Are you really as unhappy as you make yourself sound all the time?
We2

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:27:00 PM
I'm not a marcher-to-the-tune of local governments. As a good example, I've stated my opinion very clearly that apartment development in Murrieta's economically precious commercial areas should, in my very strong opinion, be brought to a screeching halt.
But commercial business realities are what they are. If a major commercial project developer shows his cards to his commercial competitors too early, he has probably shot his own project not in the foot, but in the heart.
Unless and until there is some matter which requires showing the commerical plan in an area like the Golden Triangle, it has to be as closely guarded as possible. (Which is sometimes like trying to hold water in a sieve, but it has to be done anyway). At some point in the process the legal disclosures must happen, but if you show what's going on any earlier than necessary, another developer (or another city) could make moves on the game board of business strategies that undermine everything you're working to achieve.
No one is more anxious than I am to see what's cooking for the Golden Triangle. And no one is more aware of how important it is to wait for the right moment to lay it on the table.
In the meantime, it's a great idea for all of us to be tossing our own thoughts into the ring. It may be that one of those thoughts ends up being something fantastic that no one has even contemplated.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:51:00 PM
I understand that Nancy Knight shares ownership of the Murrieta Bugle. I didn't realize that Kelly Seyarto has an ownership in the Murrieta Insider. Is that what you meant Jeff?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 3:23:00 PM
3:23 Hello...? Is this true? Is there some place where ownership of business is a matter of public record? If so, is a business license required on the part of the business owner?
Just Wondering

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 4:04:00 PM
Ah, Ha! Now the truth is coming out. Councilman Seyarto has been reading the Murrieta Insider, and without a reading license, I bet!
Jeff... We've got him now.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 4:26:00 PM
No, I didn't mean that Kelly was an owner. It is a Chamber of Commerce publication. The Chamber of Commerce in Murrieta is also STRONGLY influenced by the development industry. They voiced their opinion very strongly against the recall vote. The Insider published a number of interviews slanted negatively toward Mayor Enochs and positively for Councilman Seyarto. They are probably the only paper in the history of newspapers to show a glowing full page picture of a politician and his family, that had been thrown out on office by his constituates after the fact.Thats all tell JVH thank you. I am surprised that they didn't build that statue. They are the same rag that has Rep. Haynes telling us what a lie global warming is.....of course before the hurricanes. Now most people would like to roll the paper up and show him some global warming with it on his bottom. It's totally slanted in its political views toward the Republican side of the world. I think the last photo op had Kelly and Dougie sitting at a function and said....oh yea by the way....now whipering....Mayor......bla bla also attended. It's basically another governing body that developers have bought within our community. DID ANYONE SEE HOW KELLY PROMOTED IT!!!! It just proves what a shill for the developers this guy is. See how he blasts the other city paper. LOL. See I'm laughing.

Am I unhappy most of the time...NO. In my posts I'm really not unhappy because the most I can really do is write. I am not going to change many opionions, if any. It is that 2% that really worries our dear Councilman. I don't know where anyone heard he was not going to run for re-election. He's running, and you heard it from me right here.

Hopefully I have Rholmgren and Seyarto laughing at me and some of you laughing with me. But in the end, I want the best and wont settle. Do any of you want to let any Councilman settle??? Hey they are pulling down the big bucks here.

Kelly is headed to be County Supervisor with his Temecula buddy after another election or so.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 4:37:00 PM
4:26,
No it's Kelly that panicks over the licenses people have. Read some of his paast posts.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 4:38:00 PM
So, The Chamber of Commerce owns the Murrieta Insider? Is that what you are saying Jeff? or, Maybe they publish this paper? Would you please clarify who owns/publishes this paper? Is it a developer? Who actually owns this publication that garners so much of your ire? Not just a group of persons who decided to publish a paper in order to make money by selling advertisements like say, the Pennysaver or the Murrieta Bugle? Surely this is not just a business but it must have nefarious intentions just to upset persons such as yourself.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:05:00 PM
Mayor Enochs words were twisted in that publication to feature him as someone that only wants this City to stand for upper middle class people. So how they portray him is the real issue, not how often he is in there.

You are right and I am wrong about the publication being the Chamber publication. I misworded the statement about you and Stone having the same position at the same time. But it's what you are after being a County Supervisor. You of course didn't address the FACT that you are running again.

Does everyone see the arrogance of this man. This is how he has treated anyone with an opposing view. He thinks he runs everything he touchs. I will comment whenever I want and will continue to stand up for all the present homeowners in our town, instead of development interests and the future apartment dwellers that you comment on so often.

Kelly, you know 49% of the voters in this town said in the recall that you weren't doing a very good job and they wanted to see a trainee fill your position. That isn't a very good item for the future resume. But, keeping me quiet, telling me in essence to shut up, is all your about. It's the same shut up that you told the people that night that the recall was started.

You want to talk about being wrong wrong wrong. The homes in my sub-division are still not occupied as you said they would be by September. The are not selling for the values you stated and there is not one park in my development of 200 homes. Great job!!! It's taken the builder 24 months to build from the pad to where they are at today, and all you did on here was defend him.

Now keep changing the subject back to the triangle away from all the planned multi dwellings and density problems they bring, that are in our future of the current residents.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:32:00 PM
It seems to me Jeff that you do not take kindly to anyone who has a point of view that differs with your perception of our community. In fact you are not at all nice to anyone who opposes you - actually downright low class at times.

I can tell you that with the supposed knowledge you have tried to portray, and noting the inconsistencies, as a homeowner you certainly do not represent me.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:55:00 PM
Jeff - There are those among us who like your fighting spirit. In that respect, you're probably the best in the blog. Sometimes you take better aim than others with your punches, so there's room for improvement. Rholmgren... now there's another story. Best in show, if you know what I mean.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:02:00 PM
I love your opinions Jeff and our coffee club talks everyday about the posts of all on this blog. You speak with passion from your heart and that is what most of us don't have the guts to do. We gather every few days and the very first thing we say is did you read what Jeff said. Goodluck. Kept talking for us.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:46:00 PM
Holy jumpin jackrabbits! There's another coffee shop group out there I guess. Ours, I think, is the oldest in Murrieta but we do not talk every day nor do we first see what Jeff had to say. I you're like us, you're an intense and verrrrry serious group. Hellooooo coffee cousins.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:00:00 PM
Jeff,
I have never spoken up on this site but I am a fellow Marine and have followed with interest the things you have to say. I am also a fellow homeowner here in town and work in Temecula for a large manufacturer. I don't always agree with everything you say and like me you don't know everything, but I think you speak from your heart and are not after anything but to flash a light on problems we all see everyday. Don't let this guy tell you that we've had enough of you because we stand behind most of what you say. Keep talking brother I have your back

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 7:19:00 PM
Jeff since you are so far out there... somewhere; I was wondering if you knew that there is also global warming on Mars. It must be caused by all of that alien pollution right? Or maybe the Sun is just a little warmer? Jeff move on to something new. You are rehashing your arguements so much that you are beginning to sound like a Parrot. How do you like the new Supreme Court nominee? It is kind of hard to be figure out someone with little written history on politcal positions. I think the only one that feel confident in her abilities are those that have worked closely with her over the years. My superficial opinion is that she is a moderate. I also think that she has an interest in gay civil rights. Who would have thought that Bush the supposed Neocon would nominate such a person?

Jeff should I have thought the way you do 10 years ago so that you would not be here today? You are like a horse with blinds on. You are only worried about who is here now and could care less about planning for those who will be here in the future. (Like our children and grandchildren)Jeff you should run for city council. Then the 10 people who support you could vote for you. (Does that last paragraph sound like dejavu? That was my weak version of a rehash Jeff style )

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:10:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto My gut feeling is that there will be resistance to any triangle development. And I think the resistance will come from the same groups that are protesting apartments and retail development citywide. It will not surprise me at all if people like Ed Faunce, Nancy Knight, Gary Bryant or Barbara Nugent are vocal opponents to the Triangle's plans. They will somehow find faults in any plan that is submitted. Hopefully this time we can overcome all the naysayers and go forward with what the Triangle Developers have planned. I think this is the fourth project that has been considered for this property. It would be a shame if this property sat vacant for another 10 years.If what you say about the water table in the Triangle is true then above ground parking structures would be a good compromise. They could be located next to the freeway as a way to buffer traffic noise. Are there any plans for another overcrossing south of Murrieta Hot Springs that would be linked to the Triangle?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:26:00 PM
JLM I think you have a good point when you state that they right number of high density units may have already been reached on the westside. I do not think we are there yet but I think that within a year or two there will be a point where a moratorium period should happen (maybe 4 to 6 months)and then there should be talks that would more clearly define which MU lots should ultimately end up as high density housing and which MU lots should be retail/commercial. I think the MU zone has a little too much ambiguity.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 8:49:00 PM
rholmgren said: "It will not surprise me at all if people like Ed Faunce, . . . are vocal opponents to the Triangle's plans."

It's not that difficult a concept for most people to understand that the recall was not based on an anti-development attitude. Rather, it was directed at a member of the council - JvH - who was misusing his position for personal gain. It was also directed at two other council members - Seyarto and McAllister - who tried to cover up for JvH and who helped him get his day care center approved.

Despite the ease with which intelligent and reasonable Murrietans understand this principle, you, Rholmgren, persist in bleating your misunderstanding and misinterpretations as if you alone possess the truth.

You are either intentionally lying about the basis of the opposition in the recall or you are unable to fathom the difference between opposition to political corruption and a general anti-development attitude.

Once and for all, neither Rescue Murrieta nor the undersigned were or are against the development of Murrieta. We are against the misuse of concilmanic power.

This is probably a waste of time as far as you, Rholmgren, are concerned, but the larger community needs to have this fact straight.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 10:40:00 PM
A question has been raised concerning the origin and ownership of the Murrieta Insider.
________________________________________
On Friday, August 27, 2004, the Californian, By: LAURA MITCHELL - Staff Writer, reported:

MURRIETA ---- City Councilman Doug McAllister is going into the development consulting business. McAllister said Friday that he recently got his real estate license and is selling the glass-etching business he owned for nine years. He is also starting a free monthly newspaper with Planning Commissioner Steve Rawlings.
________________________________________
On August 25, 2004, the Press Enterprise, By ROCKY SALMON, reported:

Murrieta gets own newspaper: City councilman and planning commissioner want to focus on local news. A city councilman is giving residents another way of getting community news. Doug McAllister is teaming up with Planning Commissioner Steven Rawlings to start a monthly community newspaper called the Murrieta Insider.
__________________________________
On August 29, 2004, the undersigned had the following letter published by the Californian:

No way paper won't create conflict of interest

So Murrieta Councilman Doug McAllister has partnered with city Planning Commissioner Steve Rawlings to publish a new "non-political" Murrieta paper. Right! They say they already have advertisers lined up.

I'll bet the advertisers are Chamber of Commerce members with real estate or developer interests.

Other Murrieta businesses will be asked to support this business alliance between the council and the Planning Commission. Who's going to say "No thanks"?

I thought that the City Council was supposed to sit in judgment on appealed decisions from the Planning Commission. So how is Councilman McAllister going to exercise neutral and independent judgment over his business partner's decisions? Who's going to resign, McAllister or Rawlings? One, or both, have to give up their official positions to avoid this obvious conflict of interest.
____________________________
Shortly after this letter was published, Councilman McAllister withdrew his “visible” affiliation with the Murrieta Insider. I leave it to other Murrietans to decide whether my prognostications were correct that the Murrieta Insider would become a cheerleader for the Chamber of Commerce.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:01:00 PM
And by the way, does anyone know how Councilman McAllister is earning a living since he sold his glass etching business, got his real estate license and announced his intention to go into the "development consulting" business?

Maybe Councilman Seyarto can enlighten us?

McAllister's new announced career certainly goes a long way to explaining his voting pattern.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, October 04, 2005 11:22:00 PM
Kelly,
There is my answer about the "Insider", just as unethical as if our "fair and balanced" Chamber was the owner. It all shows us the tilted way two of our Councilmen operate while claiming to be totally above board.

Kelly when a developer comes to the Planning commission, does it not seem realistic that someone ask if he is going to build a park in the development. Why should my devlopment share a park with the two other large developments. And it is just a kiddie park. Like I have said all along, Kelly you are out to save Devlopers money at our expense. Any developer building 200 homes should be required to build a park.

If the Triangle serves this community, attracts families and money to our community, you will not hear compliments from me. I am very much for developing this area with upscale entertainment. I would like to see some nice restaurants, maybe a community theatre ala the new "Merc" in Temecula. Or a Center for the Arts like Escondido and Poway have to our South. I was not recommending a Water Park for the triangle, but for an area that runs along the 15 to the southwest. This would surely draw families and more dollars to be spent in "our" new triangle. With the growth in Southwest Riverside county, wouldn't people just flock to a water park.

In closing Kelly, I contacted the City Attorney questioning you, a public servant concerning libel, over your comments about Mayor Enochs illegal and unethical activity. I was told you are a citizen and have a right to express your opinion. So do we, as citizens. Our opinions are just that, opinions. You however, control aspects of our lives. You control our tax dollars to a far greater extent then Ed does. And when we hear arrogant comments as to who can speak, what can be said, and that we are stupid, coming from someone that esentially is in our employ, you lose credibility. When you set so many things in motion to protect big business you fall into the same realm is all the other political liars and cheats that we see falling today. You are full of revenge and arrogance. You will be voted out, there is no doubt in my mind and replaced. Your developer friends will not save you this time around because your arrogance has awakened people to counter their money. I would have loved to have seen you turn the corner after the recall but all you have done is turned your back on the current residents, protecting your developer friends. Keep talking because your phrases on here will be the battle cry of those who care about our city. Attack everyone that has a differing opinion and soon you will push away even those who saw some value in your good traits.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:40:00 AM
Kelly, you pillory Jeff and myself, but ignore the fact that Rholmgren's error is what prompted my first of three posts last night. You did notice that, right?

My second post was made because there had been discussion about and questions raised about the Murrieta Insider and who owned that paper. Again, you noticed that, right?

My third post simply followed up on a quote attributed to Councilman McAllister and asked whether he had a new career consonant with his expressed desire of development consultant. You noticed that right?

The two local newspapers did call JvH's day-care actions "smelly" and at least extremely poor judgment, right?

You, and McAllister, did cast a vote which resulted in JvH's day care being approved, right?

Seems to me that what you call the "gutter" is nothing more than cold hard facts.

Oh, but you do get down and guttersnipe when you claim that if Councilman McAllister is working for a real estate firm (potential conflicts of interest with his Councilmanic duties) that such is more noble work than my profession.

Kelly, Kelly, tch, tch.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 6:45:00 AM
Mr. Faunce my 8:26 was a hypothetical and had no basis in fact. I was just trying to guess at the future and in no way was the post meant to be derogotory. I added your name only as a guess based on a comment you made about the Riverwalk. I hope that my speculations are wrong ,and I hope that people that were against previous Triangle developments can hopefully rally around the next one when the details are known.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:13:00 AM
Mr Faunce my speculation was not an error. I want you to prove me wrong. It will really impress me when you finally stand behind something constructive in our community. Mr Faunce some of the things that you mentioned that you would like to see at the Triangle would require a private/ public venture. Would you support partial public financing at the Triangle? We do have some common ground on what should be built, but I wonder if there will be enough support on the public financing side. The previous project's public financing drew alot of opposition, and I wonder if the same groups will oppose any public participation this time around.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:44:00 AM
Jeff it would be interesting to know some financials of existing water parks and then compare the financials to an upscale retail restaraunt center. I may be wrong but I think there would be more revenue to the city in upscale retail. Maybe a smaller waterpark would work on the southern end of the Triangle. I think the Wave in Vista would be a good example.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:51:00 AM
Re: The Triangle. Murrieta needs a project(s) that provide more upscale dining, entertainment, convention (meeting) space, specialty shops and generally a nice place to go evenings and weekends.

I previously had an office in Cerritos next to their community theatre. An equivalent sized Center maybe too much for Murrieta to take on, but, if not, that type of entertainment center would be a delight. The Cerritos Center brought in performers from all over the world and served the population of southern LA County and Northern Orange County.

There should probably be a mix of public/private commitment to such a center because the area needs to be Murrieta ID'ed because it will anchor the community even more than town square (which I think is also a great project).

One thing we must not lose sight of is how long it really takes to build a City. Murrieta just got started and many complaints are about the speed of development for one segment of the community without bringing along other elements of the General Plan.

It seems to me that a Triangle Plan might support a hotel and convention center because attendees are not limited to Murrieta venues, but the Santa Rosa Plateau (and De Luz), the wine country of Temecula and golf courses in the area could be secondary destinations.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:36:00 AM
The public/private venture aspect of Triangle possibilities is something I could support as long as it was a project that raised the value of the entire surrounding commercial community. The reason for this "as long as" is that the payback from increased commercial taxes (such as sales and room taxes) and the increase in local property tax revenue over time could massively offset the cost of any public participation.

There are many, many potential projects that could fit this kind of bill. The old "Rogersdale" proposal was ironically among the few public/private possibilities that were not ideal for this purpose. That's because a highly specialized theme park would not have the kind of wide-base commercial appeal that would radiate out to the surrounding commercial community.

There are many possible ideas of the kind of projects that would be likely to succeed in this way. I'll mention a couple that are very different from each other, just as for-examples:

1) The convention center. This kind of project could spin off potential for a large number of hotels, restaurants, and so on. The advantage to this location is visibility, and the easiest imagninable freeway access from both freeways.

2) A unique high-end shopping center. This is something I think, from bits and pieces of news I've picked up, that the Triangle owners have thought about. Unique from the standpoint of bringing in major retailers from other parts of the country (or even internationally) who may not even have a presence on this side of the continent. Such a center would have not just local appeal, but would be a magnet for shoppers from all over Southern California. This kind of center could add a treasure trove of sale-tax revenue potential that could radiate out to stores, restaurants, and even hotels in a good radius around the Triangle. Murrieta could end up being tax rich, primarily from retail activity, all occurring within less than a mile around the Triangle. This would keep the really major commercial activity of the city concentrated near the Triangle - a geographically natural commercial hub - all with the best possible freeway and commercial corridor access for the inflow and outflow of shoppers.

I don't want to get too long-winded with these kind of ideas, but I guess it's obvious that they do get me enthused.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 10:03:00 AM
JLM,
Good thoughts about the Convention Center or at least a mini-version and upscale shopping. Rholmgren, I still wasn't suggesting a Water Park in the Triangle. Near it but not in it.

Kelly, people that live in life's gutter are usually there because life has taken a turn for the worst. My challenges of you doesn't come from the gutter but from your actions and from your typed word and finally from your voice. You mentioned that I have a revenge factor, but what revenge are you talking about. Maybe the revenge that all homeowners in this town should have in protecting our interests from people that are paid to protect us but don't. Is that the revenge you speak of? Arrogance is not me. I have admitted many times that I am not up on every issue this City faces. I have apologized when wrong. Arrogance is the lack of ability to assume error, even in the face of facts. You are plain and simply arrogant. To have any future in politics it would be a good idea to correct it if you ever want to gain votes. But as you see, youve lost votes. Now, tell me again about revenge and arrogance. Oh yea....you were looking in that mirror again when you wrote that. So do I say wrong, again and again and again to you? Nah. People see and they will remember each post. If just the few that supported the things we say yesterday have changed there minds about you then I feel better. But the only thing I get from typing these posts is satisfaction that the homeowners and residents of this City are getting an inside look at you through your responses. They then can make the call. If you are arrogant towards every challenge to your arrogant ways, then you will be the one paying the price. Get voted out after barely surviving a recall will not add to an already negative resume. If your resume doesn't follow you maybe my words will. The only one that I pay the price with for any arrongance with is my Wife.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:27:00 PM
Why is our councilman addressing these guys ? Maybe he is hiding something? You've got me thinking? Especially when he is tellingthem there comments are from the gutter. I think they are pretty fair questions they are posing. These are questions that i ask myself, especially about the development connection. Is one of them really a public relations agent for the development community?

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:57:00 PM
Thank you Ed for attempting to contribute some kind of positive idea for the community in order to clear your perceived persona.

For the most part you have exhibited a single minded agenda in keeping a child care/swim school from being placed in your own neighborhood and finding it necessary to continue to pummel the councilman you have vanquished in order to insure your original goal and justify your actions.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:58:00 PM
Standing applause. Great brainstorming on the recent ideas for the triangle. And that's thinking big, to bring up the powerful effect the triangle will have on the surrounding commercial areas. Parts of nearby Commercial MU areas are still undeveloped and could bring the sales tax gold home to the city treasury. Murrieta does not have to stay the weak sibling of Temecula. The triangle and the nearby C and MU zoned properties could all become a very rich source of city revenues. From what I've seen places like the triangle are pretty darn rare in any town. It's a one shot chance for this town to do it up right.
Been There

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:12:00 PM
Hey 12:58 Im no fan of the old RM ideas, but why try to throw your own mental mud on some excellent and very upbeat input by Ed Faunce? If you can't respect positive input, you certainly can't provide anything positive. Don't take it personal, because I don't know you, but your attack on Ed Faunce reflects very badly on anyone you claim to support.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:21:00 PM
12:58,
It's funny when someone try's to protect an unethical political activity behind child care and whether or not it should be located in someone's neighborhood. It's the unethical principles that are the reasons there is a negative focus here.
I for one am not negative toward a child care center or the location of the center. Same goes for our dear Councilman, it is the appearance of unethical activity. Consistent support of development through voting patterns after a large contribution to a cause makes me wonder. No I smell a fish. What smells like a fish and swims like a fish, most likely is a fish.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:32:00 PM
In other words, Jeff, all is hopeless. Just make a list of discouraging facts that you can copy and post over and over and over again. Kind of like a machine gun that keeps pumping out the same cloned bullet over and over and over again.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:08:00 PM
No Kelly or I mean 3:08,
This is a blog. You and Rholmgren are the only ones that complain about anything that is repeated or clarified. I will continue to remind you and little mac and JVH as you all post as anon on here what we should be aware of. Most residents don't care if something true is said about you. Just the people who also have interest in developer profits. I'm going to see Trisha Yearwood now, but someday maybe I won't have to drive to Escondido but can see her here in Murrieta.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 4:46:00 PM
Jeff - To the person who wrote, you have proven that your urge to make an assumption is stronger than your ability to make a correct assumption.
3:08

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 8:38:00 PM
Jeff It is intellectually corrupt to assume anyone is guilty based on an accusation or indictment. Last week Mr. Delay was indicted and then over the weekend it was discovered that the Texas D.A. was accusing Delay of a crime that happened in 2002 but was applying a law that went into force in 2003. That is a big legal NO NO. (There is a legal term for this but I just cannot recall what it is) So now the D.A. has gone back this week to a NEW grand jury to indict Delay on a different charge. These type of witch hunts end careers and that Texas D.A. has stuck his legal neck out pretty far. You and the D.A. have alot in common Jeff. You make alot of baseless accusations based on unrelated facts. 500,000 donated by developers means K.S is on the take. Or Jeff what if you are accused of embezzlement? You would automatically be guilty based upon your own standards. (another rehash Jeff style)
Now the positive. If a hotel is built at the Triangle does anyone have a height limit in mind? I have been to the Eagles Nest at Pechanga and the view near the top of the building is incredible. A twenty story hotel at the Triangle would have even more impressive views. I am not sure if such a structure is economically possible or popular but it would be awesome. Also Thank you Mr Faunce for the constructive post.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, October 05, 2005 9:56:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Embezzelment? What about harrassement?

When someone like Rholmgren takes a swipe at my post, then all I am able to do is defend my thinking. So it does rehash or repeat statements Ive made. Common sense. If we are to listen to every written word from Councilman Seyarto and just say OK, we fall into his trap. It's the trap that many politicians today want us to fall for. Believe what I say and now that I have told you the "truth" move on and shut up. Look at the examples. Bush, Rove, Cheney, Frist, Clinton, Delay and our Councilman Seyarto. "Jeff, I have never done anything for the support of developers over City interests." Well, all we have to do is look at his voting patterns. All we have to do is remember he told us he vouched for recalled Mayor Van Haaster and for us to now shut up. He tried in essense to mislead us. To turn our attention away from an unethical act. He knew the truth all along but didn't want us to "talk" about it. The same is happening in this blog. "Jeff, I told you apartments are good for all of us and it will give homes to teachers and policemen and keep our kids from leaving to Phoenix and now that I've told you just shut up. We have heard enough from you now Jeff." I wouldn't want people to rehash or continually talk about issues that were not popular either. Let's talk about out new playground area the Triangle. "Don't talk about the apartments I'm going to shove down your throat". There isn't even a plan that has been announced "but lets talk fantasies, it's better then people exposing my support of developers and little Macs ties to them. Someone might tie everything together and I would look bad."
Common sense people. Has Seyarto sold us out to development with a smile on his face? Common sense. When three Councilman vote against a developer, why do the same two ALWAYS vote for the developer? The same happened before the recall. The same three always voted as a bloc for developers no matter what the situation was. Then developers give 25x more money to a group that supports the 3 up for recall. Common sense people. So people who would be hurt by Seyarto's failure to get re-elected will post on here and say my posts are long or I am negative or that what I say is the same dribble over and over, but it is the same statement. I know everything, trust me and now SHUT UP. Common sense.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 6:35:00 AM
It is the same old same old Jeff. How can your last post be so into common sense while all I hear is irrational logic from you. My theoretical about embezzlement illustrates clearly how irrational it is to automatically assume guilt based on a accusation. The accusation probably made no sense to you. But like I said you constantly list people with accusations against them and then go into diatribes as to how corrupt and guilty they are.It is also irrational to string together a bunch of facts and then try to connect the dots with conspiracy theories. (Which is what you do with K.S. and developer donations.) No Jeff common sense is definitely and absolutely not one of your traits.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 8:20:00 AM
"Since mid-May, the citizens of Murrieta have a council that is functioning as a team. Votes have been generally unanimous. The few split votes have usually been over land use issues, and that is just a difference of opinion. Council members are acting in a spirit of cooperation delivering responsive government, and getting the job done. Respect is now a commodity in evidence on both sides of the dais." Rick Gibbs as quoted in his "Straight Talk" column in the October issue of the Murrieta Insider.

The question is Jeff and Ed too if you wish to comment, apparently the woes of the council have been overcome, harmony reigns and for the most part everyone agrees/votes in agreement. It would appear that the balance of power has shifted in the direction you wished eliminating any unruly dissent

In that regard, are you content with the current council in that there remain only two members who might take a stance in opposition to your views, but can now be contained?

Can this council now move forward making decisions more acceptable to the community?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:39:00 AM
To Anon 9:39, who said: ". . . apparently the woes of the council have been overcome, harmony reigns and for the most part everyone agrees/votes in agreement. It would appear that the balance of power has shifted in the direction you wished eliminating any unruly dissent."

This attitude is the greatest danger to our freedoms and liberty. Oh how we all wish we could just relax at the backyard bbq with friends and family and trust that our elected officials will "take care of us."

But while we citizens are socializing and enjoying the good life, the business community (Stephenson's developer friends, and the Chamber of Commerce) are working around the clock to gain financial and political control of the decision making apparatus of the City.

Yes it's uncomfortable for many people but our founding Fathers understood what committment was required when they gave us this republic. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -- Thomas Jefferson

If you think for even one second that Stephenson and his minions are not planning to regain the ground they lost, you are a fool.

Councilman Gibb's statement that respect and harmony are now in place at the council is his assessment. But it took the concerted efforts of hundreds of residents to get this result.

Do you think that without this effort and the threat of continued resident activisim that the Council would continue as currently described by Gibbs? Of course not.

One of the reasons why Jeff, and myself, chime in to remind people about the history of the Murrieta City Council debacle is that we tend to have short political memories. That, coupled with the efforts of Rholmgren and Seyarto, to constantly snipe at anyone who expresses this history, requires that they be answered -- "lest we forget."

Watch the pols tactics, "now is not the time to discuss blame, we have to take care of the immediate problems." Translation, we pols never want to discuss blame. We might be held accountable.

I don't personally believe that the woes of the Council have been overcome. The enormous financial backing to Seyarto and McAllister was not simply largesse. The developers made a down payment on an expected political payoff. They will be back in the next election to finish the job.

Things may seem quiet for now, but we dare not let down our guard. As for me, I choose to follow Thomas Jefferson's advice.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 10:40:00 AM
So, to keep us on track here:
Next year will see an election in which there will be three vacant seats. As long as Mr. Gibbs retains his seat, it is irrevelant who occupies the other two, as the balance of power has shifted.

Otherwise stated: surely out of 3 vacant seats, at least one will be held by persons supporting your point of view continuing the new majority. I suppose that explains your vigilant position.

So do you allow that perhaps one individual might secure office that while voicing opposition to your views, might be able to speak for the now minority view, this being a democracy? Would you be tolerant of this situation or do you mean by being vigilant, no opposing points of view will ever be tolerated by the new ruling class in this community?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 11:41:00 AM
Councilman Gibbs said "The few split votes have usually been over land use issues...", almost as though that's no big deal.

Before that very revealing statement is allowed to slip by, let's have a reality check.

There is nothing more important in a rapidly growing city than land use issues. Please read that sentence again before proceeding, but put it in capital letters. Let me help: THERE IS NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT IN A RAPIDLY GROWING CITY THAN LAND USE ISSUES.

Councilman Gibbs, the immensely valuable commercial corridors of Murrieta are about to be turned into an apartment and condo jungle. The potentially tax-rich future of Murrieta is being squandered in those corridors because no one is giving due consideration to the importance of those land use issues. Developers right now are milking the cow of the record breaking home buying frenzy. Those developers have their supporters in this town, but those developers will be long gone when the home buying boom goes bust.

If people do not wake up to what's going on, this town will be irreversibly and permanently damaged by the high-density-developer friendly forces which now are intensely and intently at work in this town.

Come on people. Councilmen, Mayor, Citizens, Everyone Please! Wake up and grab the steering wheel of this town before it's golden potential goes right off the cliff... never,ever to be seen again.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:03:00 PM
12:03 I believe you have majority support for your view, support which includes Mr Gibbs and that is why he tolerates the vote split knowing that two of the votes are now irrevelant.

I believe you are getting upset for not a valid reason.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:17:00 PM
To Anon 11:41 - are you also Anon 9:39?

You said: "So do you allow that perhaps one individual might secure office that while voicing opposition to your views, might be able to speak for the now minority view, this being a democracy? Would you be tolerant of this situation or do you mean by being vigilant, no opposing points of view will ever be tolerated by the new ruling class in this community?"

There is no "new ruling class" in Murrieta.

You reflect the attitude of a disgruntled CofC member or developer.

The City Council is suppose to represent the residents of the City in obtaining and maintaining the best City they can muster. If the residents are considered a "ruling class" - then so be it.

You also said, in reference to next year's council election: ". . . at least one will be held by persons supporting your point of view continuing the new majority."

What is my "point of view" to which you refer.

I know what my "point of view" is, but you may have a different take.

I believe that the developers, including the CofC because it is clearly allied with the developers in Murrieta, have had too much control over the manner and timing of the development of Murrieta.

I believe that the efforts of these groups to pack the City Council with their friends, get the Planning Commission stacked with supporters has given them unwise "back door" access to the assets of Murrieta.

I believe that the City Council members should be residents who are committed to those who live here by abiding by the principles of good City development and the General Plan.

I believe that developers and other businesses should have to stand in front of the dias and present their projects for the residents to approve by way of their elected officials.

I believe that any Council member who is the beneficiary of developer largesse has been compromised in his/her ability to stand up for the long term needs of the City.

Finally, I believe that we should elect five Council members who all share this same committment to the residents, i.e., we need to develop our City, but we need to be in control of what projects are to built where and when.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:21:00 PM

MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.

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