Mr. Gibbs with a tough row to hoe.
It is an interesting question from Rholmgren about whether Rick Gibbs, having got into office on RM's platform should now distance himself from it. Now that the recall is a done deal and the voter block is broken, how is Mr. Gibbs going to vote in favor of something that Seyarto and McAllister endorse, but that Ostling and Enochs do not?
posted by J. L. Kunkle at
Friday, May 06, 2005
22 Comments:
I don’t think Mr. Gibbs got in on RM's platform. I think Mr. Gibbs got in on his own platform. The fact he agrees with some of the issues and concerns of RM is why they supported him. The surgery is over, there’s still some infection, nevertheless we have no choice but to let the wound heal. ALL five need to work together, otherwise we will get nowhere fast. I hope Mr. Gibbs will work with Murrieta’s best interest at heart and stop the trying to play catch up to Temecula course that Jack had us on and caused all of these problems.
KS
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 06, 2005 6:01:00 PM
This city sure is philisophically split down the middle. I never would have guessed that the vote would be so close. I want to give Mr. Gibbs a chance. I really hope he means it when he states he is an independent thinker and is beholden to no one. I also hope that RM's existnece does not continue to polarize this city. I have long time friends and aquaintances that were pro recall. I hope that everyone remembers that politics are only a part of our existence. Let's hope that not too many friendships were damgaged during the year long recall process. I still think RM and their agenda are dangerous to Murrieta's economic future. I know that they are probably already planning for the 2006 campaign. I also hope that other people who post on this board are able to separate my attacks on their ideas and their political beliefs and not take them as attacks on their character or their intelligence.
JM the teacher: What is a "pristine landscape?" I think some people are mislabeling some of the last remaining open spaces in our area. How many of the grasses and plants that you see non native? Is every open space worth saving from development? What would a pristine area in the inland empire look like? (I think that most of the habitat and open space that we see today is very degraded compared to its past pristine state) Any way I wish Mr. Gibbs alot of luck. I think he is going to have to walk along a political tight rope. It is sure hard to please everyone in the diverse Murrieta community.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 06, 2005 7:19:00 PM
I agree with KS and the fact that Gibbs ran on his own platform, not on RM's. I believe he is an independent thinker and will be beholden to no special-interest group.
Although rholmgren and I are on opposite sides of the recall issue, I am encouraged that rholmgren (as per his/her last posting) and I are now thinking alike; we need to heal any wounds. Unfortunately, I know of many who allowed this thing to get personal and they need to get back to reality and realize we all want what is best for our city. Our differences are what keep us from being too far to one side or the other. Our differences also help us to understand our own reasons for our opinions, as it challenges us to address the opposition.
Hopefully the postings that follow will continue to be in a positive, constructive vain. Let's go for a record and leave this one section for only thoughtful, constructive comments. That means, leave all the name-calling and ranting to the other sections. There is no reason to continue battling each other. We all go to sporting events, picnics and other community functions together. It would be so nice to build a happy community in spite of all the recent turmoil.--Z.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 06, 2005 8:11:00 PM
Rholmgren,
If I can interject on the development of open space--
The land that is currently zoned as "open space" should be develped. But it should be developed as "open space" (golf courses, parks, equestrian centers, etc.) It should not be turned into appartments, shopping centers, etc.
People especially need parks where they live, and they need them within walking distance from their homes. children need baseball fields, soccer fields, etc.
As far as how Mr. Gibbs will affect the city, I personally hope he will keep an open mind on each and every issue, and not become a part of a voting block either way. Time will tell obviously!
I, personally feel that I have learned quite a bit about the people on our council, and I think that an improvement has been made in the mix. I would like to see less animosity on the council, and I think that striving to eliminate voting improprieties (real or perceived) is a good place to start, and I think more people need to be looked at for voting improprieties.
As far as Rescue Murrieta is concerned, they should either disband now, or commit themselves to a purpose higher than just seeking political influence.
In my opinion, RM should seek excellence in all city councilmen, and should begin posing some very hard questions to both Enochs and Ostling, in preparation for the next election. Short of that purpose, disbanding is a very reasonable thing to do. After winning the Revolutionary war, George Washington could have become King of America. However, he wisely chose to lay down his power.
RM is a PAC, which has won an election victory. Their stated goal is acheived. Continuing to hammer on Seyarto and Macallister is foolish, and will only serve to divide our community. People who seek power and choose to lead should seek to unite the people under the truth, for the common good. Otherwise they are a detriment, pure and simple.
Jeff Morell (JM)-- (not JMteacher in case you were wondering--thought you might have gotten us confused)
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 06, 2005 9:01:00 PM
I think a get-together of blog participants is a great idea. Someone just say when and where and I will be there!! I would love to meet rholmgren, Murrietaneyes and some of the other regulars. I think most will prove to be interesting people who will have a lot in common. Let's be sure there are guidlines which discourage the name-calling and unproductive rhetoric that peppers this blog. Although, in person, I highly doubt people will have the desire to behave in such a manner. --Z.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, May 07, 2005 9:29:00 AM
Does anybody have an opinion on the development in the hogbacks area? I am going to hike the area Sun. after reading about it in today's PE. I just want to personally see if the area is worth preserving. I have seen other areas preserved as islands of habitat, but they seem to gradually degrade over time. If the hogbacks is worthy of preservation it will need wildlife corridors.
How is the Bear Creek airport lot going to be preserved for park land? It seems as if the property owners are hell bent to develop it. Would that lot be a good candidate for eminant domain? To me the recall is over, and I see no productive reason to rehash the past recall issues. I would just like some different opinions on these two areas since they seem to be the largest areas left that could be preserved as open space.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, May 07, 2005 6:18:00 PM
ME,
As I see it, the next logical step for RM to take (assuming that another step is to be taken), is to endorse (and oppose) candidates in the 2006 election.
Whereas RM was created in a grass-roots effort to initiate and prosecute a recall campaign, I am just wondering what the purpose (of RM) is to be?
It seems to me that one of the effects of the Recall Election, is that Kelly Seyarto and Doug Mcallister have basically been re-affirmed by the voters (with a relatively high turn-out), which signals to me that the past slate of these two councilmen has been basically addressed. Do you see RM continuing to challenge these two into the next election? Do you see RM challanging Enochs and/or Ostling?
What do you believe is the next logical step for RM?
JMorell
By
Anonymous, at Monday, May 09, 2005 9:43:00 PM
Rholmgren,
I don't know anything about the hogbacks area, but the Bear Creek airport doesnt have much for wildlife ingress and egress. Other than some nice trees, there isn't alot of nature to be preserved.
A lot of that area is being used to re-fill the aquifers, but I think it could be developed in a way that would allow it to continue this function. I am sure that the owner of the property is looking to maximize the devolopment value of the property, but short of getting a very unpopular zoning change approved, his best bet is to build a golf course, or sell to the city.
Personally, I think that the owner could also build a very nice equestrian center. I think that Kelly Seyarto has said that he would like to see equestrian trails extending beyond Temecula, all along the creek bed (much of which is already planned.) The location of the airport is surrounded by large homes (mostly on small lots), and I think that a large equestrian center with stables would be very successful in the area. It would not be difficult to incorporate bicycle and foot traffic into such a scheme either.
JMorell
By
Anonymous, at Monday, May 09, 2005 10:08:00 PM
Here's the saddest commentary from Richard Mannex at the council meeting last night - "It'll be great seeing the council go from a 3 - 2 vote to a 2-3 vote" What a genius. And what an unfortunate characterization of Rick Gibbs. Watch out people - the first time Gibbs votes with his head (as he is likely to do) and joins with Seyarto and McAllister for the continued good of the city - you'll hear wailing and gnashing of teeth from the blockheads. RM appears to be poor losers and even less gracious winners - if you can characterize what they did as a win for the city.
noWonder
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, May 11, 2005 4:28:00 PM
Enochs and Ostling had better toe the line also. They may mistake the Recall vote as some kind of mandate. Enochs had better make decisions based on what is right and good for the city and not be an empty brained block head who decides to say nay every time Seyarto says yeah. I think it is obvious to everyone that Enochs will probably discredit every idea Seyarto has even if the idea is good for Murrieta.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, May 11, 2005 6:52:00 PM
Councilman Elect, Rick Gibbs
is an independent thinker. Able
to base decisions on whats best
for Murrieta, by weighing all sides of any issue. Without being
swayed by developer interests, or
Rescue Murrieta. Rick Gibbs does
not need an "education" (Press Enterprise Tues the 10th) on how
to "play ball" with developers.
I think the southwest county
taxpayers (developers) should read Rick Gibbs bio again. A
32 year military veteran, Ret.Colonel. Who also spent time
at the Pentagon.
"Rick Gibbs is gonna be just fine".
fr. Irisheyes
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:38:00 PM
Speaking of the Bear Creek airport - here's a something you don't hear much about but it's true Back in 1998 the city was offered the Bear Creek airport acreage - 60 acres or so I think, for a price of 700,000. Do you know why the city didn't buy it? Because the hero of the revolution - Warnie Enochs - didn't want to. I'm sure he had a good reason at the time - much like he has a good reason for everything he does (hee-hee) so the city didn't buy it. Two years later the same offer was made for 1.2 million - again opposed and defeated by Enochs. Today everybody bitches and moans that the city should buy it (current price - 4,000,000+) and make it a park. Even Enochs thinks it's a good idea now, a genius of hindsight (of course when your head's up your butt, hindsight is about all you have).
Look for the owner of that land to continue to try to develop something on that valuable parcel becauise it's primo land in a great location. All this BS could have been avoided with a little foresight on the council - unfortunately it was substantially lacking in the Enochs faction so you get to worry about what'll be happening there for the next several years until either the city or the developer caves. Thanks Warnie.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:02:00 PM
Yea and you can thank Jack and Kelly for the Golden Triangle Fiasco. The only place in Town that doesn’t have traffic problems. It’s great you can get from the 15 to 215 like that. Looks great, costing us a fortune too, and were not making a nickel on any of that vacant land. So, yes, let’s give Jack and Kelly and big wet one thank you! Obviously some great foresight there, Right?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:04:00 PM
WOW!! Is this a record? Looks like this site lasted a mere three days (May 6 - 9) without a single person lashing out. Thanks, "no Wonder," you started the unproductive name calling (ie."blockhead"). Nice.
We'll get further with some dialog at how to SOLVE problems rather than to blame those for past actions. I am not saying I agree with the loss of the airport site, but it is what we are left with, so let's deal with it now. We've heard that story from Kelly way too many times...let's just deal with what we have (or don't have) and move on. Same goes for the Golden Triangle, but the airport attack on Warnie is naturally going to bring out attacks on the others and it is worthless to discuss what could have been.--Z
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:30:00 PM
You not getting it. The writer was being facetious about the previous writer whining about Warnie and his foresight. The truth is, none of them have a perfect track record.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:35:00 PM
The point is that anyone who has lived in this valley for more the 10 years knows that Warnie would fit in more with Lake Elsinore politicians such as George Alongi and Chris Hyland. Take a look to the north and see the vision of the RM group.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 13, 2005 10:21:00 AM
I don’t think Warnie is anything like George Alongi or Hyland. I’ve been in this valley for thirty years. I don’t see a problem with being cautious with development. Temecula was a Kaiser master planned community. The only part of Murrieta that was master planned is Cal Oaks and it wasn’t followed exactly. In addition, you know what, Lake Elsinore is a whole lot better than it used to be. Every community in this valley has some dirty laundry.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 13, 2005 11:10:00 AM
How do we fix Warnie's screw up of the Bear Creek Parcel? The two straight forward choices would be for the city to buy it outright or acquire it through eminent domain. I don't think that either of these options would go over very well with the property owner(s). There is alot of profit in that property if it was developed. It also seems that the city leadership is adament that the Bear Creek parcel remain open space. Maybe some one in the RM group can think of a more creative way for the city to purchase the property. Maybe the city should try this strategy : Offer the Bear Creek property owner(s) a trade for their parcel. The city could buy another parcel somewhere else in the city and trade it for the Bear Creek parcel. As part of the swap the city would allow the new parcel to be developed within the confines of the general plan. This sounds simplistic and in reality it would probably be much more complicated to do such a transaction. If Murrieta's citizens are serious about preserving open space then they had better get creative in a hurry. The price of undeveloped lots will just continue to rise. Does anyone else have a better idea?
By
Anonymous, at Friday, May 13, 2005 10:35:00 PM
How does the airport acreage fit in to the wildlife corridor project?
By
J. L. Kunkle, at Monday, May 16, 2005 6:23:00 PM
That airport was there long before all the new homes which border it. First the new comers chased away the ultalights now they want the land for their own personal green belt. What about the property rights of the owners of that land?
By
Anonymous, at Monday, May 16, 2005 8:53:00 PM
The airport lot would not qualify as a wildlife corridor. If the Hogbacks area is conservered a wildlife corridor would be needed for that area. But as it stands now it looks like the Hogbacks area is going to be surrounded on all 4 sides. If the area is to be open space it would be better to make it a regional park than a conservation area.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:09:00 AM
Two things,
1. As has been mentioned before, Warnie Enoch's one vote out of five can not block any city decisions, it takes a vote of at least 2-3 to do that, so even if Warnie's style can be infuriating at times, he is not now nor has he ever been in control of the city council.
2. RHolmgren's suggestion of a land exchange has some merit, but with property all over Murrieta going so high, we would just be trading one group's property rights for another. I do think that the Bear Creek airport should be made a nature park, not a sports park, but what constitutes nature is in the eye of the beholder. It is definitely not a golf course.
By
J. L. Kunkle, at Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:51:00 AM
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