MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.: Cameras

Wednesday, July 20, 2005

Cameras

Murrieta is considering cameras at certain intersections for law enforcement. I'm on the fence on this one, because I don't believe that Murrieta's stop lights are calibrated yet, and I can picture myself waiting at empty intersections for minutes waiting for a light to change. It might generate revenue for the city though, depending on who they contract with to process the citations.

176 Comments:

I don’t know all the details yet, but for me I don’t like the ideas of cameras at intersections for this reason, from what I’ve read the company which is installing the cameras is going to refund the city if they don’t make the $500,000 a month in maintenance fees and from what happens in other cities is there is a contract with these companies to run the system and I don’t like the idea of a for profit company running these cameras, just look at what happened in the city of San Diego they lost a lawsuit because the courts ruled in favor of the citizens that tickets were given even when the light was not red. We don’t need a system that guarantees a certain amount of financial return; if they are put in it should be run exclusively by the police department which has no finical interest in making a profit, it should be about safety.

For me I like the second option which is a very much a lower cost called “rat boxes” at $5,000 for 20 devices which requires an officer a the intersection but can see red light runners on the opposite site of the light, you get a lot more intersections covered and hey a half a million dollars a month can get plenty of new police officers!

Mike

By Anonymous, at Thursday, July 21, 2005 7:55:00 AM
Just a correction, it should be $500,000 a year for mainenance not a month, now that would really be huge profits!!!

Mike

By Anonymous, at Thursday, July 21, 2005 8:08:00 AM
The commission that recommended this should be replaced. This is a waste of tax payer funds. Try solving the problems with traffic instead of these feel good stunts,

Bill "OB" Johnson

By Anonymous, at Sunday, July 31, 2005 7:51:00 PM
Apparently Mr Enochs is a true genius. Alexander Properties is sueing the city because its condo projects were denied by the city council. The City,Enochs, and Ostling are listed as codefendants. Losing this lawsuit will reverse any gains that resulted from the recall election. Rescue Murrieta are you sure that Mr Enochs is on your side? Mayor Enochs may be taking this city down the road where legal precedent overides future council decisions on development. It will be interesting to see what huge sum Alexander is demanding in the lawsuit.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:55:00 PM
Rholmgren,

Have we seen a lawsuit yet? Or are you speculating? I see that the planning commission twice recommended to not go forward with this project. Mayor Enochs, Gibbs and Osterling taking advice (of the experts) and using their heads to protect us. Who is Seyarto and McAlister siding with AGAIN. The developers. Who else would they choose? I'm glad we have three men in this position and that Murrieta can follow. To all that think Van Haaster will ever be back....forget it! I read where the developers spent half a million to stop the recall. I love laughing at them. I guess it would have gone into someone's pocket instead. I also read Seyarto's editorial and he needs to ceasefire if he wants my vote or that of my neighbors. We all think he is out for revenge at the risk of our dollars. He was not recalled by a small small amount of votes. He doesnt appear to want to work as a team and you get elected on appearances and what he gets done. He needs to talk less about Enochs and show me he cares about me. The editorial should be saying about how he is working to improve the infrastructure not lining the pockets of developers.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:00:00 PM
Jeff read today's Californian there is an article on the front page of the local section. I found out on Monday that the lawsuit had been filed. I did not speculate but I probably jumped the gun in that the information had not been published in the media. Winning the recall was like taking one step foward for the Rescue Murrieta agenda. Losing this lawsuit will probably negate any percieved gains that Recall backers had thought were won. If the lawsuit wins in court then developers will have more legal power over council decisions than they do now. Basically RM, Enochs, Gibbs, and Ostling may have legally shot the city and themselves in the foot. In denying the Alexander projects the council may have done the opposite of their intentions. They may have made it easier for builders to build more condos on the Westside. How ironic!

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:44:00 PM
So, since you have a jump on your fellow Murrieta residents, you either sit at the courthouse or are close friends or tied into either Seyarto or McAlister. If the planning commission in this city recommends an action to the council, since that is their responsibility then I believe that the council should stand behind them or get rid of them and do the job themselves. Rholmgren, you just follow these two like a sheep and repeat everything they say just as you do the conservative agenda. How about typing real ideas that you thought up yourself. You didn't answer why developers would spend $500,000 in support of these guys??? You can't answer that. They have an agenda too. To make as much money as possible no matter what the costs are to the citizens of Murrieta. So why should your comments make a bit of difference to the average Murrieta resident? Maybe they spent all that money in support of these three because they are such nice guys. Get a real life. You didn't answer why Seyarto would be taking the time to blast Enochs in the paper when he should be writing about solutions. Answer these two questions with real answers instead of being Seyarto's mouthpiece. I would rather things get done right, despite lawsuits, then do things halfass in fear of lawsuits. Way to go City Council.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:56:00 PM
This lawsuit will be interesting; on one hand if the city wins then what we’ve been told all these years from the previous majority on the council hasn’t been exactly true and it could drastically change the way land is approved for projects. On the other hand if the city loses, the new council majority really needs to take care on their decisions because losing several lawsuits can drive down the city’s financial reserves or even go into debt, which would drive down property values and the quality of our city services. Just from reading the paper it sounds like the developer was real confident, because going into the city council meeting it seemed like their attitude was that they made all the changes that was legally required and there was nothing the city could do. So I guess we’ll see.

As for all these comments I keep reading about Kelly winning the recall by a thin margin, you have to remember everyone who voted no on the recall also got to vote for an opposing candidate, so basically Councilman Gibbs also received votes from people who voted no on the recall, if that option was not available to people who voted no it would have been a wider margin for Councilmen Seyarto.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 5:19:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,

First of all you work for me or have you forgotten. And no, I don't want you or Mr. Enochs wasting time arguing. That's not doing me or any kids or young doctors or young lawyers any good at all. You are stuck in revenge and need to get past it if you want to work for me. This isn't about you and it will never be. It's about us, together. It's about spending all the time your trying to pay back Enochs, Gibb and Osterling, on projects that build respect for yourself and the council. That's your job, rebuilding respect, no matter what the personal cost to your ego, because none of us have time to worry about it. Do that on your own time. If you were concerned, I'd be seeing more of what you just did, inform me why you vote one way or another. Bring these issues to the table. You need to get off your high horse and start working for me, thats why your there. If you don't want to do that, get out. I have no problem with rental apartments in our community but when the planning commission, which also serves me recommends not once but twice that we don't allow these apartments to go forward then I think you need to explain why they are not to be trusted? So tell us why we can't trust the planning commission and should trust you, because I am misinformed? Tell me then why since you don't trust their recommendations, why they are still employed, as they must be incompetent?

Tell me why too, that the developers spent 500,000 to keep you on the council. Is it that they are in business to lose money????? Or is it because they know that your votes were in their pockets??? Like I said, they must think your such a nice guy and would only do things in the best interest of us the regular guy in the community. I've never heard you or Van Haaster or McAlister answer this. Why half a million dollars???? Are we fools here?? Why does our planning commission and three council members vote to keep these apartments out and you two vote for them. I still don't have a clear answer. Why didn't the developer come forward with an acceptable plan in the first place. Maybe because he always had a slam dunk in this community. I have sat in at council meetings and heard your disrespect to others. You need to start working today for me, the regular guy and leave the bickering to private. I have not read any articles from you informing me on your reasons. Why not? First answer me about the money spent by the developers and then I will begin to understand how important your blog is. Inform me. I see two people always siding against the others on issues involving developers.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:45:00 PM
Jeff in a few older postings I advocated that MORE money should have been spent (millions) fighting the recall. Also I am no one elses mouth piece. My blog thought are straight from my right wing heart. They just naturally flow from my finger tips. I also predicted right after the recall( on this blog) that Enochs would carelessly lead this city down the road of lawsuit ruin by basing decisions on emotions and popularity and not law. I havr never met or spoke to Mr. Seyarto or Mr. McCallister. Similar philosophies on some issues does not automatically mean that we are associated. Also Jeff I hope that my Enochs blasts on other postings were harsher than Mr. Seyarto's comments in the Murrieta Insider. Enochs is proving by his actions and words that he is a backstabbing SOB who should not be in a leadership position in Murrieta. "Let the healin' begin"
What an insincere line of BS Mr. Enochs. Jeff how big of a lawsuit settlement will it take to motivate citizenS to vote Enochs out of office?

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:53:00 PM
Rholmgren,

I can't believe that you didn't call me names. I'm impressed with that.

The lawsuit would involve the city council and the planning commission as a whole. That's what life in government is when you work in a Democracy. If two vote against it, they are still part of the council, we don't seperate out the decisions by votes. The council made that decision. If Seyarto and McAlister can't accept that, they need to stop serving and start a community up that they can run alone. Secondly, the City Planning commission should be fired and I have no idea how they came to their decision to not recommend approval. Why don't you and Mr. Seyarto get this. If Enochs is running his mouth with revenge, he needs to shut it too and get to work. He needs to also get out in the forefront and answer why he rejected this. I am not on a side here and I don't care if Mr. Seyarto cares about my vote or not, but he does need to care about my opinion and that of every homeowner in our community. There is no place for egos working for us. There is a place for humility and honor in what you are doing and I see little of that. I want to see articles written on how they are going to fix the mess they have going around the police station and when it's going to get done. They need to be updating us on the Freeway intersections and when we will see improvements. I dont care about Mr Enochs car or Mr. Seyarto firefighter position. I do care about them doing what they signed up to do, serve this community.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:32:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
Isn't the internet great. If you really want to research something, all you have to do is click your mouse and it pops up. I read that this developer contributed ten grand to the fund not to recall you and had made threats that if his plan was not accepted after some changes that he would sue. The city attorney said in the article that his suit would likely not hold up in court. It said that two members voted against it because they asked this developer to change his design and he rejected that. I assume he is pretty angry that his $10,000 didn't get him his project. He said that this decision was done in retailiation, yet again I bring up the planning commissions decision. Are they too retailiating against this developer too. Isn't it a funny that the two men that recieved contributions in support of "no" recall voted for them. You'd think that you would state reasons beyond trying to help young kids live in our community, as to why this developer shouldn't meet the requirements of the planning commission of changing their design. You are right, I was not informed but the more I research the more I learn about you. Since you felt so confident bunching me with others, should I feel just as confident to put two and two together to figure this one out or do I act with more respect and ask you why that you didn't demand the same changes and a modified plan by the developer? Mr. Seyarto, am I asking a public servant too many questions when it appears that a disservice to our community has taken place? You talked about a code of ethics in your bylaws in the Murrieta Insider. Who enforces these ethics? Is there a governing body that watches our City Council? It's funny when someone gets angry when questioned and turns to attack. I would feel every member of our community should ask questions and I believe it your duty to answer.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:29:00 PM
Jeff : Different topic and your postion here does not need labeling

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:44:00 PM
You still refuse to answer why developers spent 500,000 on your recall. Is that too hard to decipher??????? And I'm sorry to say you do work for me as I am one of the residents of this city, even if I don't agree with you. To say that if someone doesn't agree with you, then you don't work for them?? That's you're whole problem. You don't feel a responsibility to us. When I say me, I mean all the citizens of this city. Please if you want to answer my posts, respect me enough to answer the questions I posed.

You think that you are an island on the council but you are not. It's called the Murrieta City Council, not Kelly's group and Enochs group. When the council makes a decision, you don't get a pass from being part of that decision which ever way you vote. It still becomes the direction you go. Do you think that our Senators violate the law if they voted against it's passage?

Like I said, get off your high horse. I don't care what Enoch drives.

You must not have listened to the planning commission the second time they rejected the developers proposal and members of the council requested a different design did you? You sided with the developer?? What do you care if it costs the developer more money? But you do care and that's the problem here.

So I'll ask this question again, very slowly......why did the developers spend 500,000 to keep any of the three council members from being recalled? Did you decipher that? Why did you vote to not make the developer of the townhomes change his design as the other council members requested and the developer refused? Why did you vote against the planning commission in their recommendation?
If any of these questions are too hard to decipher I can send them by fax. You, just don't get the point. If you want to tell me how terrible Enochs, Gibbs and Osterling are I'd be glad to listen but first I would like my cities public servant to answer my questions.

So who's taxes pay for you? From your statement that you don't work for me, they must be someone elses. I am more interested in you stopping the arrogence and scaubbling with the other Council members then you spending time with me to defend your side of it. I don't really care who is at fault. I want it fixed. At work would your boss be Ok with arguments between employees. Of course not. He'd tell you to fix it or you'd get let go. Thats what I want, whether youre at fault or they are. You owe it to all of us that live here. Thats what we do when we work for people.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:34:00 AM
Jeff you are starting to sound irrational and emotonally unstable. Make yourself a drink and check yourself. You act like spending $500,000 is a crime in a campaign. How does it tarnish a candidate? If it does then most of our state and federal representatives are crooked aren't they? Please. It is a drop in the bucket. Just wait. We are a decent size city now and our elections are going to start reflecting that. Don't be surprised if big business donations balloon the election budgets of council candidates. And don't be surprised when more big money PACS come to town. I think the days of council members running on $5000 budgets are numbered.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:27:00 AM
Rholmgren,
Then that would explain why Rep. Cunningham in Oceanside is under investigation for receiving a "donation" from a contractor and voting to push his agenda. Let me see where to draw conclusions here. Three candidates get 25 times the contribution (from the home builders that they let overrun our community) then all the candidates spent together as a whole and then the two remaining candidates vote as a block to support the contributors (these developers). Lets see here. I just bet my life that they have my interest at heart.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:04:00 AM
Development has not over run our community. Government entities have failed to keep pace with infrastructure improvements. Most of the problem is at the state level where the transportation fund has been robbed for 4-5 years and Caltrans which moves projects along at a snails pace. THis growth that you see occurring has been in the pipeline for a decade. Where have you been? Why complain now after the fact when it would have been more useful to be involved years ago when this development planning was on the drawing board. It was common knowledge in '95 that French Valley was going to get thousands and thousands of new homes. It was also well known that the West side of Murrieta, Clinton Keith, and Menifee were slated to have huge developments. Were you staying informed or what? Why all the whining so late in the process? Why not direct your anger at those who have not adequatly improved our freeway's and off and on ramps. Most of our bad traffic is there isn't it? Developers are here to build housing to meet demand and turn a profit. Government taxes and builds roads. Well Jeff who didn't do their part?
Instead of blaming developers blame the people who are willing to move out to this wonderful community and plunk down half a million plus for a house. Which came first Jeff the buyer or the house? The Chicken or the egg? Supply or Demand? The blame game by you and others has been over simplified and so you scapegoat developers for the ills of our community. Your arguement is a Simpleton one dimensional position that requires very little introspectional thought. (Scapegoating)

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:11:00 PM
Rholmgren,
You are such a great guy.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:00:00 PM
Rholmgren,

That's not true. Yes, we the public plunk down the money for the homes but we don't know anything about infrastructure, city government, county government, developers or City Councils. We hire or elect people who are experts or at least experienced in such dealings to represent us and make the right moves for us. But you are right, developers are here to build as many homes as fast as they can and as in all business make as much profit as possible. That's why we have to trust that the people we elect are not enticed by the businesses. Now do you think for a second that any of these developers care about the Murrieta infrastructure? If they do, please come to my neighborhood and see the half-built homes that have been in the same state of construction for over a year. They haven't sold any in almost a whole year. These builders can't sell them so they have their construction crews off building in areas that are selling. I don't blame the builder, I blame the city government. They are there to protect me and you and my neighbors so this type of thing doesn't happen. I don't blame the developers for spending ten million dollars on who gets elected. If I owned the compamy I would spend whatever amount made me more money. But this is the point. These developers knew they had three councilmen in their back pocket and did as much as they thought they could do to get them re-elected. Why else would you say they spent that money? They didn't want anyone breaking up the sweet deal they had. I wouldn't either if I were them. I blame the three councilmen for letting these developers feel that way. The developers should walk away from the table when dealing with the city council worn out because the negotiations were enough for them to build here yet Murrieta gets every bit of the infrastructure it deserves for the money. Thats all I want. Now are you telling me that was what was happening??? Rholmgren, you really do sound like an educated guy, why don't you get it? Why the whining so late in the process???? Because I can already see we are getting setup by the two that are left to bring back Van Haaster. Mark my words. Murrieta they will bitch and complain and whine about the other three and call them liars and cheats and criminals to make them look bad and then when election time comes they will say we need Jack back. Watch and see if I'm not right. Rholmgren are you a real estate salesmen??? I just have this feeling that you are? Whatever. I didn't live here in 1995. I moved here in 2000.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 1:45:00 AM
Jeff you definitely have your beliefs and I have mine. We have a different perception as to the causes of societies problems. I may not agree with you, but I do like reading opposing views. I doubt that anyone is going to win any arguements on this blog. The debate is endless.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 9:00:00 AM
Mr. Rholmgren: It is incorrect to assume that arguements will not be won or lost in these discussions. I'm one of those who reads and listens more than he writes, but I can tell you that I do learn from what goes on here. I particularly appreciate what you and Councilman Seyarto have to say, but not always because I agree with it. Several other participants are interesting as well. Some of the others who are among the most interesting seem to be those who participate occasionally, have very few words to say, but still say a lot. I hope to read more of what you, the councilman, and some of those other people have to say in the future.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 3:14:00 PM
Developer's money talked in the election, but it didn't say what the developers expected it to say. What it DID say, loud and clear, was "Public Beware".

Murrieta will always be a small town. People know what's what. They're a whole lot smarter than some politicians think they are. Hitting them over the head with a money bat won't get a favorable result in a town like this.

There are those who think the developer's money saved Kelly Seyarto and Doug McAllister. The fact is that they survived not because of, but in spite of, developer's money.

Thinking people were angry about the money being spent to influence them. In the end, a few people in this town who are influential in their own way made important decisions. They are the all-important swing voters. They don't come from the radical this or that side where decisions are black-and-white and easy; nor from the ambivalent middle where apathy rules; but rather from somewhere outside the political arena where thinking is required to make a decision. Such people are not easily swayed by political labels, emotions, or the kind of propaganda money can buy.

The fates of Kelly Seyarto and Doug McAllister were not in the hands of developers. Instead it was the political fate of Murrieta that was in the hands of a relatively small number of quietly active, thinking citizens. Those citizens thoughtfully weighed the alternatives, and they actively talked with their friends and relatives about their decisions. They voted a split ticket, and the results were clear.

Councilmen Seyarto and McAllister were given not so much a vote of confidence, as a vote of trust in the value of lessons learned. Whether that trust has a strong or weak foundation will become increasingly clear as weeks and months go by.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 4:45:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
I still see your purpose here is to discredit Mr. Enochs. If he is the one asking the developers to do anything unethical or illegal, please tell us or the city attorney or the district attorney. If this is true, why aren't you saying it and not getting him indicted? You have called out the Mayor of our community as asking developers to do illegal things. If you are really the public servant that you are telling me, then this next week the citizens of Murrieta should find out that the Mayor is being investigated? I promise to be the first one to stand up and support you if thats the case. But if it's not the case and you are making statements in writing that are meant to damage another man's reputation, then I think next week that we should hear that you have stepped down.

Next your reasoning that developers are supporting you because you are more honest and truthworthy then anyone that was in the recall election against you, is interesting. I don't know about you but that doesn't seem logical. These developers aren't in business to get to know honest people. They are in it to make loads of money. Is there anyone that is reading this string that can stand up and say that these developers would spend 25x what all the other candidates combined spent on Mr. Seyarto, because the find him more honest??? Wow. These developers spend money to make money. Period. Why does a city council member care how much money a developer spends on a project and has it rejected?? I don't want my councilmen to accept any project unless it's best for this community, no matter if the developer goes bankrupt attempting to sell it to the council. Do I care how much money a pharmacutical company spends on developing a drug and the drug can't pass the FDA. Only if I have a financial connection to that pharmacutical company. I don't see any Southern California developers filling bankruptcy. Your statement doesn't wash. The developer spends money to make money. Now it's your turn to tell us why these developers spent money on you. They were looking to make money on their investment. Tell us all how they do this. Again, it isn't because they want Murrieta to have the most honest politicians. They don't give a damn about that. Yes, they may want politicians that make life easier for them and give them anything they want. That does make sense. I do want my council members honest and fair but I want them to be the hardest negotiators in the country. I'd rather we are tough and save every dime and get every option of infrastructure we can out of these developers. If I'm the developer, I want business as usual and that would have been to keep the "three votes" intact.

Next Mr. Seyarto, I asked you why you voted against the other three council members and the planning commission on the Condo project? You didn't answer, except to say that you care about the young people that can't afford homes. I asked why you aren't telling me why the planning commission isn't capable of recommending projects and you have more knowledge and information? I really want reasoning and logic here.

So the next Tuesday the council meets you should be addressing the Mayor for his illegal and unethical business practices and the incompetency of the planning commission for twice rejecting the condo project.

Lastly, why can't you drop the arguing and petty bullshit with Enochs. You are not doing this community any good. Is it in the best interest of Kelly or the best interest of Murrieta that you and he both hold this childish rhetoric. Why do you care what his license plates say???? You talk about the new vehicle he is driving as if it's illiegal to own a new vehicle and I feel that you are saying it because you are making it known he did something unethical. If he did the community needs to know what you know, or you need to stop talking in a public forum about it. So all we all want is for you to do the best job you can for Murrieta. And you do work in this position for me as I am part of all of us. What would be really nice is for you to get on here and take us in a positive direction. We are really not headed that way today.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 06, 2005 7:52:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
I really am not trying to be disrespectful. I have said nothing to you that I feel is disrespectful or belittling. I have no need to be. I am asking logical questions of you. I have heard no one say that Kelly Seyarto is doing anything illegal or cheating the system. But I feel in the last two posts you are being dishonest in your statements. Let me show you what you said in the next sentence.

"So the question for you that begs to be asked is who would you support if you were in their shoes? Would you support someone who is opposed to your industry based on political self preservation, who requires you to engage in illegal and unethical practices, who won't meet with you to tell you what issues they have with your proposed project or who will tell you they have no issues with your project then vote no after you have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars following the rules and complying with the requests that they laid out?".

This is what you said and I don't believe this is about politicians in general but about Mayor Enochs. You asked who I would support and referenced other reasoning in your above posts. It is quite clear that you are talking about yourself as the honest and open politician and Mayor Enochs as the one who engages in unethical and illegal practices as you are quite specific and not talking in general. It is clear and I think that the residents and the city council should view your comments as highly suspect.

Then you go on to say that his license plates are also a "disregard to the law". You don't state why?

I don't want any business to go bankrupt but we both know that in this area these developers have enough money to finance support in the hundred's of thousands for candidates. They are not going bankrupt.

I think that you are wasting money putting your efforts into fighting with other council members. You say that you have problems with Mr. Enochs but you can't address them. Well, sir, again, you work for us. It's not us working for you. Fix these issues and get things done. This IS your job. Do it!!! The more you try and make Mr. Enochs and any other council member look or appear wrong or in a bad light, the more the citizens will mistrust you. Why don't you get this. I still think that it is wrong for you to try and imply illegal activity and then when called out on it say...."oh no, I meant politicians in general". Others reading this should match what you have said in other posts and articles and they will find this is exactly what you said in the outlined statement that was copied in my post.

But something politicians,who have gotten their foot stuck in their mouth, do is say...."go argue with someone else". I think that Enoch, Ostling, Gibbs and newspaper people like Laura Mitchell may find our above posts sort of interesting.

Further, I am not supporting Mr. Enochs, for I don't know him. But he isn't on this string attacking you. As I said if you have some real unethical activity or illegal business practices, I would challenge him also. I become very very skeptical when big business throws big money at someone's council seat when they make big time decisions with my tax money. You would too.

Lastly you don't need to argue with me ever. But you do answer to us the residents of Murrieta for anything you put on a public forum. Go do your job, get along with the kids so we can be proud of our city government.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 06, 2005 11:26:00 PM
Jeff said
Then you go on to say that his license plates are also a "disregard to the law". You don't state why?

In the state of California the law requires that you have a front and rear license plate.

Further, I am not supporting Mr. Enochs

Just from reading your posts, to me it actually sounds like you are just for the fact that you keep bring it up.

I become very very skeptical when big business throws big money at someone's council seat when they make big time decisions with my tax money.

I think that business spent money on “the 3” just for the fact that they were picking the lesser of 2 evils…so to say, they knew the new majority would reject projects without any rhyme or reason, this new lawsuit against the city does have me very concerned that we are going to be on trend of lawsuits in which the city will lose.

What concerns me is a council that will waste taxpayers dollars on lawsuits because of council decisions, in a council meeting a year or two ago on a threat of a lawsuit over property at the corner of California Oaks and Clinton Keith, Warnie made the statement that he wasn’t concerned of being sued, humm very bold statement considering that’s my taxes dollars going to his legal council.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 07, 2005 9:06:00 AM
There is a perception in Murrieta that developers have in the past had their way at the expense of property owners. The majority of the council and the planning commission in past years created that unfortunate perception by treating Murrieta home owners disrespectfully at council and planning meetings. Developers were never shown similar disrespect. Developers were always polite in return, because they were treated with respect. Citizens got angry as a result of this lopsided perception, and when they did Mr. Seyarto often shot back with return fire, and Mr. vanHaaster often showed haughty indifference. Again, developers did not need to be disrespectful, because they were treated with respect, given all the time they wanted to present their projects, and received attentive regard from the council and planners. Citizens, on the other hand, were often treated with bare minimum legally required tolerance. The results were predictable. First, there was a public backlash. Then, the politics of the city were turned on their head, and instead of proper respect then being shown to both citizens and developers, everything has again moved to an extreme. But now, it is the developers who are being short changed, and it's their turn to be mad. And once again, after a period of pain for the city, things will shift back the other direction. And again fingers will point. Such cycles are created by people on the council (or in any other part of government) who are far more interested in saying "I told you so" than they are in helping the city. Not exactly good candidates for future additions to Mt. Rushmore.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 07, 2005 9:19:00 AM
Mike,
I have never votedfor Mr. Enochs and I don't know the man. If he is driving around with only one license plate then he needs to fix that to show he has respect for the law, but it's something that doesn't affect my life. I would think that the Murrieta Police department should easily remedy the situation.

If you look at the Developer situation and don't see that these business people had a free ride and for them to spend $500,000 to make millions was the only option. I'm glad they are being challenged and it's not a slam dunk anymore. This lawsuit is a result of these developers getting frustrated at now having a harder time. Our Murrieta planning commission twice, not once, but twice recommended that the council not accept this developers proposal. The second rejection happened after the developer came back with his second proposal. Sure he's mad and sure he wants to prove a point. Our city attorney also said that the developer winning this lawsuit was unlikely. I'll trust the two Murrieta experts, the planning commission and the city lawyer. You are just repeating Seyarto's scare tactics for him. Whoa are we now that Van Haaster is gone and Enochs and Gibbs have the power. Yes, there may be more meaningless lawsuits over the fact that this isn't a slam dunk anymore. That's what we need. We need to question and make developers work to make money in this community. I have no doubt that they are in line to build here and reap the riches. These developers want Van Haaster back and I'm sure we are not long till we see more colorful flyers saying just that. He is gone for a reason and let's hope that unreasonable fear doesn't bring him back. We don't need sides in this, we need people who believe in what's best for our community, not what's best for the developer. All I hear from Mr. Seyarto's posts are defense of what the developer wants. Does no one else see this??? He is worried that the developer may spend more. That is not the job of council members unless deals have been made outside of the council chamber. Now I am posting here in answer to Councilman Seyarto's comments because I don't think we know everything thats in play here. But I suspect that he will play a waiting game, slashing at the other council members until election time rolls around again. Then he will talk up Van Haaster and again be backed by the Chamber and the big money of these developers. Come on neighbors, this isn't to hard to see. Councilman Seyarto needs to start acting like a council member and step up, not worry about the Mayor's license plate. We have big issues to work at here and we need team players and Mr. Seyarto and former member Van Haaster are surely not team players. Maybe however we could just save eveyone some time and effort and a lot of talk and just have our mortgage companies give 50% of our taxes directly to Lennox and the others?
But maybe just 50% wouldn't be enough?????????
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 07, 2005 9:21:00 PM
Jeff get your facts straight. On another post you had stated that there was a development in your area that was not being completed. Were you trying to infer that the housing market is in trouble? Did it surprise you to learn that almost every home had been sold? I drive all over the area and I have yet to see a development at a standstill. To me it seems that this year's housing completion dates are 2-3 months later than last years. (Rain delays) It strikes me as odd that you would accuse Mr. Seyarto of not being a team player. I think he is involved up to his neck in all sorts of committees and organizations. I think it would be more accurate to state that he is not on your team. Your idea of giving 50% of our property tax money to Lennox and others is so laughable and absurd. What do property taxes have to do with developer profits? I don't think Mr. Seyato was trying to bring up Mr Enoch's license plate as a legal issue. I think he was trying to illustrate Enoch's attempt to feed his ego in a childish way.Jeff I was also wondering if you are a capitalist or a communist? Oh I forgot you have no ideology. We know what you are from your postings Jeff. Come clean its OK to admit what you are.
One thing that bothers me most about Enochs is his arrogant disregard of our tax money. He had better start worrying about lawsuits. At this point though he is probably more concerned with his financial windfall from developers than Murrieta's well being.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 08, 2005 6:20:00 PM
Just checking in with my occasional companions in Murrieta blog space. Nothing new to add from my side of the street, except that I've seen developer lawsuits come and go in other towns, and this one seems a bit frivilous. And, as someone in a profession which is basically a bulls-eye for lawyers (real estate), I can only say that if you live your life in fear of attorneys and lawsuits, you're never going to get far in this world. There's a jerk around every corner who's going to threaten you with a lawsuit if they think it will get you to fold.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 08, 2005 7:18:00 PM
Rholmgren,

I was making a joke about the 50% of our tax money.

Only people who resent the fact that the recall election accomplished what it did care what anyone puts on their license plates. Does Mr. Seyarto have the firefighter insignia on his???

And if you drive a a few blocks over past Nutmeg on Jackson and turn West you will find Pacific Oaks. The 25-30 homes have been in basically the same condition for 10-12 months. They were built up to the stuco and then left in that condition. They have been in that condition since at least September last year. They are doing little things but still some homes have not been painted on the inside, landscaping is not in place at all causing dust and dirt sweeping up the streets and our homes, windows and cars are filthy. Rodents have become a problem because the displaced mice are going back and spreading. I hadn't checked into how many homes are still for sale but if the move in is in 50 days they had better get moving. I had complained to Mr. Seyarto just before the election and very little progress has been done except a screened fence installed. They have just sent out fliers to all the residents offering bonuses if we could help sell the homes. So why are you defending something you diffently have no clue about and have absolutely no facts. Just drive over and see. They just haven't done any work here. I should know as I've watched each phase go in and my own home and know how long it should have taken. It doesn't take 12 months to paint the insides of homes and install garage doors.

Im neither and you missed socialist, (again thats a joke) as you already have been told and again, all I have stated in my posts are things any educated person should already see. In what way is Mr. Enochs making a windfall? You are already predicting more lawsuits but there are absolutely no facts about that, just youre scare tactics as I mentioned you would do in my last post. What facts do you have? So Mr. Rholmgren....you need to give us some facts as your post has none to speak of......just more rhetoric.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 08, 2005 8:41:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
Why use analogies? Explain to us who and what you mean? If there is truth in the things you say, be specific. You have already backed away from the statement you made (or analogy) about the Mayor being involved in illiegal and unethical behavior. Have you turned him into the DA yet??? Or have you recommended that the planning commission be replaced because they are so inept? No....tell us why Mr. Seyarto? Could it be because you are not being honest??? You are trying to mislead the citizens of this town? You are trying to get them to worry and when election time rolls around you can build up support for Van Haaster again???? You are a cancer that spreads and ruins a community with your degrading without stating facts. Just state the facts.

I think if you are this team player then you can call the Police Chief, get the Mayor to fix his illegal license plates since they seem to be one of Murrieta's main issues.

What other lawsuits are you talking about? How many are happening today? I don't want to hear scare tactics about what could happen. If there is just the one, then I believe it is your duty to not exaggerate. I too believe that we should not encouage developers to sue the city. But I don't want our council to roll over. So really what you are telling me is that instead of holding a hard line on developers, trying to do the best for our community, we should just roll over. Thats the Van Haaster way and look at the problems that have developed. All you do is slash and run, use scare tactics and complain about someones license plate. I can't believe that this is what our tax dollars pay for. Using your analogy.......use a firehose to fill the pool if you have to. Just go out and do it and stop complaining about it. I haven't heard anything constructive out of you. Start telling us your constructive ideas. Ones that benefit our community, not ones that save developers money!!!
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 6:30:00 AM
Mr. Seyarto: By implying a lawsuit cannot be won, a self-fulfilling prophesy is created. I am not a lawyer, but I've been in courts of law to attend to civil actions, and if a judge or jury gets the slightest whiff of an indication that a defendant or his attorney doubts his own position, that defendant is doomed. You represent the city in your public remarks, and in the newspaper and in this forum you are providing far more than a mere whiff of guilt for your "client" (the city). As a result you may have already damned your client's position. You are obviously willing to hurt the city you live in if that's what it takes to retaliate against your political foes. You probably have already calculated that the cost to you individually as a taxpayer and a homeowner is far offset by the satisfaction you will get by hurting one particular mayor. I happen to agree that Warnie Enochs is unworthy of his position, but I vigorously disagree with your willingness to put the city's position in peril for your own satisfaction.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:13:00 AM
Jeff said

If you look at the Developer situation and don't see that these business people had a free ride and for them to spend $500,000 to make millions was the only option.

I’m not exactly sure of your point on this statement; people aren’t going to make investments unless they can make a profit. I’m able to watch the council meetings on cable (I don’t think all of the city has that option, which is unfortunate because people would learn a lot on how the city works) but I’ve seen so many times that developers will spend money towards the city’s infrastructure beyond what they are legally required, which Mayor Enochs and others say we need to demand from them.

I'll trust the two Murrieta experts, the planning commission and the city lawyer.

I too trust the city lawyer and I do believe he is good, but developers can hire a team of lawyers that has the time to concentrate on finding ways to win. It’s just that our city attorney just doesn’t have the resources and the time that corporate lawyers have. To me that company that filed the lawsuit gave up too easily in trying change their site design, I think they were very confident. And if you think I’m just here to spread Councilman Seyarto’s fear tactics then so be it, because I have a feeling I couldn’t change your mind anyway.

I think if you are this team player then you can call the Police Chief, get the Mayor to fix his illegal license plates

The point I got from Mr. Seyarto’s post was that Mayor Enochs has nickname himself as Mr. Accountability, and someone who is supposed to be a leader of the community should lead by example, not with the attitude “do as I say, don’t do as I do”.

What other lawsuits are you talking about? How many are happening today?

I can’t say which one he is talking about, but going back to the property at California Oaks and Clinton Keith, two different developers had projects rejected I know the first got paid by the city, I think that was out of court, and I’m pretty sure the second also got paid off by the city ( I just can’t remember the details of the second). Not good to pay landowners to go away and not receive anything from that property in return.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 8:37:00 AM
Jeff do some research into the Alexander lawsuit vs. the City of Murrieta. It was filed more than two weeks ago. I am all reality without scare tactics. I know that Pacific Oaks tract that you mentioned. The last phase required a huge amount of excavation and engineering. There was a HUGE pit in the ground there for a while wasn't there? I think that area was a drainage basin before the houses were built. I don't know about anyone else, but I would be scared to buy a house there. I think that area is geologically unstable. It is also way too close to the freeway for my taste. There are similar sized and priced houses being built less than a mile away that are without freeway noise and are on terra firma. I know some people in that tract and they say that the property tax rate is nearly 2 percent. Isn't there also a speacial assessment similar to a Mello Roos? There are new homes nearby that pay almost half that rate and are also listed at near the same price. I know that for a fact Jeff because I am in one of those new homes.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:08:00 AM
How much do Murrieta city councilmen earn each month? Is it about $400.? Considering council time, the required educational effort to learn the trade and the assigned duties, how much are they paid hourly? How much does each tax payer contribute toward a councilman's salary? Considering that if persons who serve receive no priviledges (kickbacks) from those who bring projects before the council, then why do they serve? I suspect as individuals each has his own agenda, but it is not for the income. For ego? For an honest effort to serve their fellow man by making the community a better place to live and raise a family?

Do servants of man really exist?

Do we owe persons who serve, at least grudging respect for the effort they make on our behalf doing a job that we are unwilling to do ourselves? In this young city this remains basically a volunteer job.

If a person is involved in civic service for the sole purpose of an honest attempt to better his community, are we able to bring such discomfort upon that individual so as to discourage any future effort he could offer?

So can it happen. So has it been done.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:05:00 PM
5:05,
You are totally right that a person who serves this community deserves respect. However, if that respect is not returned or shown by that individual for others and he disrespects the people he serves then it becomes a different story. Mr. Seyarto has had a disrespectful attitude to any resident who has challenged what direction he wants to go down. Listen to some of the tapes from city council meetings in the past. Very respectful guy. It was the same disrespect that Mayor Van Haaster showed us, and we all know what happened to him. A recall doesn't happen because a few residents talk to us in the community on our way into the grocery store. It happens because a major portion of this community, felt that disrespect and were dissatisfied. Mr. Seyarto can get on here and mislead all of us saying there are things we don't know. Well that tells us nothing at all. He hasn't gotten the message yet, he still feels that he is above us and we don't know anything. He has his followers who usually are the real estate bunch and business owners who are in bed with the developers. He talks down to us and I really believe he thinks that. Look at the comment he made to me because I have asked questions and made comments when his answers were not logical. He said that I feel sheepish and defensive. He doesn't have a clue how I feel nor how the 48% that voted to recall him. I would hate to be in a job where almost half the people I worked for didn't think I was doing a good job. Well Kelly I am not sheepish. And I'm only defensive when someone calls me dangerous for asking a public servant to explain himself. I have no power, except the power to question you. That's it. He has a vote, one of five, in this community on major decisions. I find a councilmen with that power really dangerous when they can allude to the fact that this city's Mayor is doing illegal and unethical things. This is the same Councilmen who said nothing when Mayor Van Haaster actually did unethical things. SO WHY KELLY DIDN'T YOU CALL OUT MAYOR VAN HAASTER???

You didn't call the planning commission inept but your voting did. When they twice recommended that the condo project not be approved, you voted for it. Either you are more of an expert then they, making them inept, or you voted for a developer who put up money to prevent your recall and you now owe them for that contribution. So which is it???? Are you more knowledgable then the commission or do you feel that you need to support people who supported you at the expense of this community??? Or maybe anytime a developer threatens a lawsuit we should just give in....is that your way of business as usual???? That's what it sounds like. You are saying that more lawsuits are coming....tell us about these lawsuits and please present facts as all I have seen is lawsuits that you have made up in your head.

Mr. Seyarto, you haven't clearly answered why you voted for the condos when the planning commission and three members of the council voted against them?? Stop selling us out!!!! Why anyone supports this kind of work ethic where all you do is complain and belittle other council members, I will never understand. Who at their jobs, are allowed to do that. Any of us would be fired for that conduct. No matter what you think of the men at the firehouse, you'd be fired for making comments about them as you do in your council job. Oh, yes, I know that they are not like Mayor Enochs.

And you comment to me about going surfing is the same disrespect that you have shown so many of us for asking questions of you. I have just asked you to do your job for this community, not serving the rich developers.

Ok.....Kelly...still no comment on Mayor Enochs illegal activity?? That simply disappeared when you said things that might get your foot stuck up your behind. You didn't mean to imply Mayor Enochs did you? Yea right.....reading your posts he is the only councilmen you have gone on and on about. Well you better keep your eyes on the newpapers the next few days.

Oh and by the way, I respect the fact that you are a fireman and a family man. It's your politics I have a problem with because if I was the owner of the company (city of Murrieta), you'd be long gone. I have a special project for you because you have shown an expertise at it. Please list all the license plates in the community that residents have that show a pride and honor in the job they perform. Thanks ahead of time.

Rholmgren,

Like I said, I live in this development and I live across the street so I see the construction proceed daily on this homes. I said in my post that these homes have been built up to the stuco and haven't progressed in a year. That is a fact and that's after 2 years of excavation. Total 3 years. Well, I have also had no special assessment and my tax rate is the same as everyone around us. Those are the facts and they are not second hand.....because I do live here. Plus what does that have to do with you? and why are you defending the builder when you are not affected? We know where you agenda is don't we......are you a real estate agent?

Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 09, 2005 11:02:00 PM
Jeff... I'm only one reader, but I wanted to say that I for one have been finding your words ever more interesting as time goes by. I don't always agree with your national politics, and sometimes even your local politics, but your local perspective is getting very, very interesting. Your perspective is (at least by this reader, and I would guess by many others) appreciated and I think quite valuable to your community. I hope you will continue.
One Citizen

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:34:00 AM
Franchise: Please. If you go both ways, keep it to yourself.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:26:00 PM
Franchise Jeff talks like a Rescue Murrieta Groupie but will deny affiliation. He states he has no ideology yet his positions show he clearly does. Go figure. He also cannot digest the answers to his own questions. I think he just needs to get out and check out this town more and see the great things that are happening. Some people love progress while the Jeffs of the world try to stand in the way while progress runs them over.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:36:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
I checked back on your posts and you answered why you voted the way you did, however, you don't state that the planning commission heard the developers comeback after changes were made and STILL didn't recommend approval. But you and McAlister did. Now why would you vote for it after the planning commission would not. The only answer is you didn't vote for the improvement of Murrieta but you voted for the improvement of the developers pocketbook. Plain and simple. You even stated that in your posts that you cared that it might cost that developer more money. Those are the facts. If people can't see this for what it is, the developers will continue to throw cash at keeping Seyarto and McAlister and we will have two councilmen always headed down a different path. I can't assume illegal activity here by the two councilmen but I wouldn't head down that path myself. Mr. Seyarto has different priorites then I do as to progress in this city.

I haven't heard you answer Mr. Seyarto why you have come out and called Mayor Enochs unethical and you stood by why Mr. Van Haaster actually was caught behaving unethically and said absolutely nothing. Now, if Mayor Enochs unethical behavior is his license plates, at what level sir do you rate Mr. Van Haasters behavior. I think being a councilmen has a higher standard when it comes to not speaking out about a friends transgression and attacking a person you dislike for two offenses that on the priority level are at two different ends of the spectrum. Don't you think so Kelly??? Now we on this string are listening for your answer.

You also got very quiet about statements that their are unethical and ILLEGAL activities going on in the council. As a resident, I demand that the city find out what you know and make it public, because I sure as hell want to know. So Kelly, tell us all what activities are going on behind closed doors???? If you don't then you are not protecting the residents, and you have no business staying a councilmen. In comparision, in the business world a company can be sued just for knowing about sexual harrasement, management doesn't have to witness it. They are libel if they have just heard rumors. I think as a public servant, you owe this city an answer to what you were alluding to when you mentioned the unethical and illegal activities. But you didn't mean Enochs did you? Oh and that's when you said that posting in this string wasn't worth your time and you stopped talking about it. You got your foot caught and you've backed away. You may be a smart man and a good fireman but thats what you good at, stick with it, because you're not very good at being a personable councilmen. Ask the 48% who think a trainee would do better.
You have not answered why you spend all your time attacking the three other councilmen instead of building relationships and working on projects and telling us about them. If you did that, or told us about unethical activities, I would have respect for you as a councilmen. But all I have to go on is you having disrespect for people with different opinions, that you are balancing on the line of being unethical in youre voting with developers at every turn to help them gain more then the city does in business dealings. I see that money, big money was thrown at your support in the recall election. We are not talking thousands, but hundreds of thousands. Kelly, truly what would you think???? You can't think it looks bad, because you don't even try to disguise your votes. You blatently vote for the developers just as you did when you were three. But it looks really bad....I mean really bad. You can see in your posts here that you don't really care how it appears but the questions that I have repeatedly asked, you either don't answer or talk around the real issue.

Can you come on here and state that the purpose you are attacking the three in office now is not a ploy to bring back Van Haaster and maybe even more of his friends in the future??? You can't. Any logical person in this community can return to this string and I will not be able to say I told you so....but I told you so.

I do like progress, Rholmgren, but not at the expense of infrastructure first. Make the builders improve the area prior to building hundreds of homes. Make the developers build parks, schools first. Demand a state of the arts hospital, as we have almost nothing here. Mr Seyarto just mentioned the lack of beauty at another complex that of course slipped by the BIG THREE.

I do get out in the city and what I see is 15 minutes at Freeway intersections, water still running down the middle of our community roads near the new police station. Those roads in decay, even though it hasn't rained much in a couple of months. I want improved flow in traffic and traffic lights. I want programs that beautify our city. I think that the $500,000 could have been better spent on our firemen and police force or the high school we need. I would have a great deal more respect for Mr. McAlister and Seyarto and Van Haaster if they would have stood up and said to the developers...wait, don't spend that kind of money on the recall, lets put it into the education of the kids here, or to the improvement of widening a road. They should have said, let us raise money like the others. But they didn't say that. That would have been showing respect for this community. Progress will run us all over Rholmgren. Look at Winchester Rd, look at the 15 and the 215. If thats progress at any cost you want, lets take a vote with the other residents without the $500,000 being spent. No Rholmgren I am not part of the Recall movement, I am just a resident that cares about my home and community. I think its good to have opinions and voice them. But Mr. Seyarto and Mr. Holmgren can't stand other opinions. They attack other opinions with name calling and disrespect. Rholmgren only has disrespect to show people like me, so he is not an issue, most people overlook things that people without respect have to say. Mr. Seyarto however is on the other end because he's good enough to fool some people. I guess that's what a politician does these days.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:22:00 PM
My mistake on the matter of the other complex's landscaping issue.

Still the planning commission never recommended approving that project even after the improvements to the plan were made. You still voted against their recommendation and with the plan submitted by the developer.

Still no answer to the other questions. When you have time, maybe you can step up to the plate, one at a time. Don't you want to clear up all these issues that you have created on here? Like I said in my last post, talking illegal and unethical activity is a big big problem. If you don't come forward with what you know, then you are basically OK with these activities. Is that how you show you want the best for us?
And of course, if we question a councilmen, we are the ones ranting as you are heads above us. It's going to be your downfall in the end.
In closing, do your job for this community and stop the negative attitude. It doesn't show much character. Show us all the positive things you bring to the table. I don't think that asking a public servant to do the best job he can is ranting.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:26:00 AM
Jeff said,
Make the builders improve the area prior to building hundreds of homes. Make the developers build parks, schools first. Demand a state of the arts hospital

As for pre-building schools and parks -- in new subdivisions that is what is happening, but the residents of those neighborhoods are paying for these through Mello-Roos.

Well I thought you’d be called out on your statement, what you are asking is not legal to ask of the developers. Like I said in my earlier post, some developers have gone beyond what is legally required of them when improving our infrastructure. As for asking to pay for a hospital is way beyond a ridiculous demand. They are only required to improve such things as roads that only extend to their property line; they can’t be forced to improve the whole street.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:14:00 AM
The Franchise, Rholmgren person needs to understand that the Kelly, Jack person would probably be better off without prissy little points of pique being inserted into the dialogue by the Franchise, Rholmgren person.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:46:00 PM
Gotta love it. OK everybody... Guessing game: Among existing or former city council members, whose wife is The Franchise?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:21:00 PM
5:21:
You left out Mrs.Stephenson. She's definitely a Franchise candidate.

and

4:46:
Franchise, Rholmgren? More like Franchise, Mike.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:34:00 PM
4:46, 5:21, and 5:34
PLEASE! Not that it matters, but from what I've heard, "she" is a "he". BUT ANYWAY, THAT DOES NOT MATTER! NONE of this is relevant!

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:16:00 PM
6.16, You're right. It's not relevant. We were all lowering ouselves to the level of The Franchise. It's contagious.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:48:00 PM
I hope everyone from 4:46 to 6:16 lives in Wildomar.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:58:00 PM
Jeff said: " I do get out in the city and what I see is 15 minutes (waits) at freeway intersections..." "Look at Winchester Rd, Look at the 15 and 215..." Jeff who is in charge of the lights at freeway interchanges? Who is responsible for the widening of state rds and freeways? I have traveled this area for 15 years and the freeways are unchanged except for the addition of improved bridges and interchanges. You sound like a rant because your posts tightly focus the blame for traffic on developers. Those of us with a wider field of vision see the complexity of the traffic issue. It is just a massive oversimplification to target developers for traffic ills. Think again Jeff: Who builds freeways? Who is in charge of the interchange lights? Maybe you should consult an attorney Jeff before you rcommend that the city make illegal demands from developers. Developers are not required to make improvements beyond the impact their project. It just sounds irrational to demand what is legally impossible. Also Jeff why deride the Developers for wanting to make a profit? Why else should they be in business? Do other government entities have a responsibility to finance infrastucture as development occurs? Jeff where has all of the Gas Tax money gone? Why does the state continue to steal from the traffic fund? It is also irrelevant gibberish when you demand after the fact the the $500,000 in developer money should have been spent on better things. The $500,000 was exclusive to the election and has nothing to do with other things you think it should have been spent on. It also is too funny when you cry because you feel disrespected. Buck up Jeff. It is a tough political world out here. You have the right to be heard. Stop whining about disrespect. Everyone has the chance to pick the other's positions apart. Deal with it. Again you state that you are not part of a political movement (Rescue Murrieta), but you sound exactly like Faunce, Nugent, and Butler to me. You have one common thread that runs though every one of your posts ...DENIAL. You state political positions and then deny affiliation with any party or organization. What a convenient and spineless position. The world would be a much more honest place if people would just declare affiliations openly instead of posting party line and then denying ideology. At least Kelly Seyarto has the guts to post here. Where are the other council members? Maybe you should be more critical of them.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:33:00 PM
8:24 ... Wildomar?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:34:00 PM
Gosh, Rholmgren. So much anger. Too much hot sauce on your red meat tonight? Jeeze. What got your undergarments in such a knot?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:39:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Just go read your right wing agenda and leave the talking to people that use there own ideas to form opinions. You are a real estate agent aren't you??

I wasn't talking about the intersections at the freeways, but the widening of roads like Jefferson and Washington and Clinton Keith.

I lived in Chicago for my early years and know political graft. I see it's head rear up and it makes me angry. Seyarto and McAlister are voting in support of money paid toward their campaign. I don't have any political party and for that matter I don't have any idea what any of the councilmen's political persuation are. It doesn't matter on this level of government. All I know is this councilmen is spending all his time complaining on line for one purpose......slash at the other three councilmen till it's time for Van Haaster to run again. That's all he lives for? So Rholmgren, you are OK with a councilmen speaking out against a license plate yet standing by and saying nothing when Van Haaster did something so unethical he apologized and then was votes out? Youre OK with that??? I'm not!!! I'm not OK when a councilmen votes consistently against the city and for developers not spending more money to improve their plans to our benefit. I'm not OK when a councilmen says that their is unethical and illegal activity going on and he'd be gald to tell me about it away from this blog....that's wrong. Rholmgren, you are just scared and weak, sorry to say. All you have is your attacks. You don't have a clue about the word respect. You and Seyarto must be relatives as you have that same personable attitude, one that everyone enjoys....laughing at. You want to attack my political persuation, but you can't here, because this is about city graft, comments not made by a blogger but by a public servant.......one who serves this community. Again, Seyarto and McAlister feel alone and powerless now and all they can do is wait until the real leader and graft master can return. He will continue this relentless abuse of the other three council members. Am I stating facts about this??? Is he attacking the other three council members and belittling them?? Yes. Doe he ever say anything about McAlister??? No, because he's part of this. He only attacks the councilmen that are holding back Van Haaster's return in the next election. He's setting the stage. And oh what a benefit to the developers his return would be.
I think that maybe the other members are more intelligent then Seyarto and they talk when they should talk, at city meetings. Councilmen don't belong saying things that surely they can't say in the council meetings. That unethical and illegal things are going on. No councilmen in his right mind would say that unless they stood up with proof and facts. Like I said, if Kelly got on here and said, bloggers, here are the facts of unethical behavior and illegal activities against anyone of the other councilmen, I would be the first one to call for their removal. If he had anything, trust me thats all we would hear.
I have no clue what Rescue Murrieta's politics are. But maybe Rholmgren, they see the same logical things I see. Spineless.......only people who follow party lines and can't stand up by themselves are that. That's why they call them spineless. I stand alone and don't care one little bit what anyone else thinks, only my family. I only answer your posts to show how incredibly unrealistic you are.
Can anyone out there in blogger land say that Van Haaster, Seyarto and McAlister don't owe the development companies for the support and backing they got. This isn't Washington DC, this is Murrieta. You carry the remnants of who you sleep with forever and these three are surely in bed with the developers. Denial of what Holmgren.....I think I have stated the things I believe in strongly. You work for the best of the community. You don't mislead people. You do everything you can to work as a team. You never get involved with people that have money that affect how you think when making decisions that affect this community. I don't need ideology, it's for weak people. So why am I angry? The same reason you should be. But you can't make that decision, because youre right wing ideology already decided for you. What kind of man only can attack others opinions by calling someone names......no man but a 7 year old little boy.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:53:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
I have heard your side of the condo project and we are not going to agree. The planning commission never sanctioned this project and you did despite the opinions of the other three councilmen. I see what happened from your side and what actually happened.
Just as I don't believe you know better then the planning commission, I don't have as many facts about everything that goes on in council meetings and behind closed doors. You do. Thats all we, the community have, is trust in our councilmen. Thats it. I just have lost trust in you and Mr. McAlister as councilmen. Anyone who can sit make fun and belittle the ones he is suppose to work with, loses my confidence in him. If he doesn't have respect for others, how can he earn my respect. He can't. I have a managerial role in a large company here in the inland valley and you have broken all the rules of an employee. You are higher then an employee, you are an elected official, a public servant. But one bit of experience you lack is the ability to work with others who hold different opinions. We can see it in each post. You have no ability to understand and consider others. You're right you can't listen to everyone, but in your situation, the one group that you cannot side with are developers. You can't serve two masters. You cling to one and hate the other. (Thats a bible verse I believe). Well, you show it in your posts. You hate working with the remainder of the council and do everything you can for the development community. I am not going to change you, I can see that. But, you could change me. Prove what I am saying is wrong. You have offered no proof to what I have asked. People like Rholmgren can never be changed either. They feel above everyone else. What I see in everything you do follows those same lines. I have made my statements and stood up for the facts as I see them. I know one thing that can't be argued in this blog or any other and that is the attitude of our city council is costing this community money and respect. It's time someone stood up and slapped you all in the face and told you to grow up. You are playing with my money and my neighbors and some of the people I work with. Big money. You need to show respect to us and this city, if not yourself. You need to remember that when you talk about other council members that they are part of this city, even if they have different attitudes and different opinions. You need to get over your relationship with the ex-mayor as the oath you have taken is to us the residents, not to him. I don't want to think anyone, including you is on the take, whether it is cash or favors for your campaign. Whether you agree or not, the fact is you feel above reproach and you need to have some humility.
I've said enough....I'm not your Father. Just do your job so I need not get on here and type for an hour when I can be reading and laughing at Rholmgren.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:17:00 PM
Anyone notice the frothing hatred of Kelly Bennett in the Californian recently? What's with this Kelly thing... How many Kelly's does anyone even know, and here's two that hate an Enochs. Well, hmmmm. Kelly is as Irish a name as Irish gets, and Enochs is (I believe) distinctly English. It seems more than likely that the bitterness that resides in the blood between these family lines has carried over the oceans, continents and time and into modern day Murrieta, where the olde feud has spread like a mideval plague among the residents of our faire towne.

I say a pox on the lot of them.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:49:00 PM
This string has become a conglomeration of subjects as most do, so I'll jump in with kind of a change of subjects.

I'm sooooo glad that Wildomar is going to handle it's own future. The future City of Wildomar will serve as a buffer between ourselves and Lakeland Village in the northwesterly direction, and Lake Elsinore in the northeasterly.

If we ever annexed Wildomar, we would live in the only city without a buffer between us and eternally problem-filled Elsinore at the one end; and the meth-filled nightmare of Lakeland Village on the other. (That's the western side of the lake, which will forever be the county's ward.) Corona is seperated from both of those communities by vast distance, Orange County is seperated by mountains, and Canyon Lake by being a gated community with Tuscany Hills between itself and all that is truly Elsinore.

Maybe I should not knock Lake Elsinore (city). They could probably some day turn into a good neighbor. But Lakeland Village is a lost cause. Whatever city borders that druggie-and-crime-laden jungle will have barbarians at the gate until the end of time.

Let Wildomar remain a buffer.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 2:53:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
I have no proof of graft and you know that. Graft can come in the form of favors for support and I think we are defintely seeing that in the case of your vote as well as Mr. McAlister.

You did belitte Councilmen Gibbs and Councilmen Ostling. First you stated.....And don't lump the issue surrounding our illustrious Mayor with Rick Gibbs or Dick Ostling (not Osterling). Neither of the latter two have anything to do with Enoch's issues other than "naively enabling him to continue his antics". And this statement......"And to close, let's talk about the whole "I won't vote for you" threat. My response to that is this. If you think that those other three guys are an example of stellar leadership and representation in our community, I don't want your vote.
You lumped them together not me. You said that they are naive not me. You alluded to them to not be stellar at their duties. I didn't make it up, you said it.

You also said in a previous post that the unethical comment was about none of the other councilmen, yet in your last words you again want to tell me all about unethical activity the Mayor is doing. So now I think the rest of the Murrieta City Council needs to ask you what this hidden illegal and unethical activity is. I am going to ask them that very question and why you are willing to tell me and not this community. Again, any resident on this blog or one reading it (no matter what your ideology is Rholmgren) needs to do is ask the city council what Mr. Seyarto knows. It's our right as residents of this town to ask what illegal and unethical activity that a member of the city council knows. If he knows something I believe he is bound by oath to tell us. Are you Kelly????
You still didn't tell me why you stood by while Jack committed unethical behavior and said NOTHING. How come now you want to come forward about Mayor Enochs???? It is all too clear. You are doing to Mayor Enochs what you say in your last post that he was doing to Van Haaster. It wasn't right for him to do it, but it's OK for you???
Again, it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to figure out what you want done. Make Enochs look bad and get ole Jacky boy back.
Answer those Kelly?
Answer this one too. Would you support Van Haaster to come back to the city council after he was recalled, partially because of unethical behavior???

I of course cannot prove graft or fraud or favors from developers, but I can see a pattern. It's a very unhealthy pattern for this community.

I don't hate you one little bit. Nothing I am saying is out of hate. I don't know you and don't hate many people (Rholmgren maybe) (I'm kidding). I don't feel or agree with your agenda. I have complimented you on being a family man and a firefighter.

I feel that if you know of these unethical and illegal activities that our Mayor has or is committing and you have said that on here, that you are acting unethically and either the city attorney or the district attorney needs to know and I will write both and copy this string. I will also copy the members of the council and ask them. Laura Mitchell need to ask for the Californian. This is important for all of us to know and get him fired if he is doing that.

I will ask you again to not tell me because I am just one of many in this town that need to know. If you have guts as Rholmgren said, it won't be addressing us on this blog, but you will defend the whole City of Murrieta by coming forward. If you don't then I think it's just the slash and burn routine to get Van Haaster back.
No I can't bet my home, my wife would kill me. But I'll buy you dinner if you have proof of unethical or illegal behavior beyond the license plate thing and do your duty by coming forward with the info. If he is at the level or above Van Haaster, I don't want either of them serving this community. So it's now on you to come forward.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 6:59:00 PM
Kelley Bennett's editorial was a dead on bulls eye. She should replace Enochs on the city council.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 8:33:00 PM
Jeff Did Enochs lie when he did a room addition and short changed the city in fees? Was it ethical? What penalty did he pay? Was it more or less unethical than what Vanhaster did? Why bash Mr Seyarto with unsubstantiated allegations of developer collusion and not bash Enochs who has benefited substantially from a developer? Are you throwing fictious darts with the hope that one sticks? I also wonder why you think that right wingers are not independent thinkers. I was a right winger long before talk radio made a turn right. Maybe you think that one has to be unaffiliated and non ideological in order to attain a higher level of cognitive thinking. There is no relationship between independent thought and being independent politically. It would be arrogant to believe that independent thought is monopolized by the open minded.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 8:54:00 PM
Jeff said
Can anyone out there in blogger land say that Van Haaster, Seyarto and McAlister don't owe the development companies for the support and backing they got. This isn't Washington DC, this is Murrieta.

Actually Jeff, I think all of the members of the city council care about this community and won’t bow down to anyone for personal gain. They are all doing what they think is best for this community and their ideas are miles apart, just for the reason that they all live here too and their decisions will affect their personal lives as well, and it is still a small city, it’s not like they live in La Cresta (if it was a part of Murrieta) and are making decisions that affect us down here in the valley.

You are correct this isn’t Washington D.C. where politicians live and represent communities up to thousands of miles away, our council members live here and deal with the same community issues we do in their everyday lives.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 10:55:00 PM
Mike,
Do you mean to tell me that this council cares more about this community then they do their own egos? All they do is backstab and allude to unethical activities. They work against each other and have since I have lived here. They vote in blocks, led by one powerful individual or another. They remain an embarrassement to us. This is the type of Council you are proud of? What Jeff says means nothing to this community, I'm just a resident with an opinion, we all have one. But go back and read Seyarto's comments in this string. It is not positive. It's terrible. He is this councilmen that loves us? I don't support Enoch. I don't support Gibbs. I want the best thing for this community and if Mr. Seyarto and Mr. Enoch think that in-house fighting is what is best for this community then they are a waste, as are our tax dollars which go down the drain with any unproductive comments they say. All I can relate this to is to our jobs. Would even one of us have a job if we complained and argued and called each other names?? Who works for a company that allows it? None of us.....not one. We are the company here as residents and they are the workers and by any of you defending this shit, you are enabling them. We need to cut our the unethical people, be it Enochs or Seyarto. Neither is acting like public servants. More like selfish children.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 12, 2005 11:16:00 PM
Jeff,

As for relating this to our jobs you have to look at it this way, the city council is in a democratic environment in which we as citizens are not a “company” but many different individuals with many different opinions and that are as divided as our council.

As for your company analogy, that is more like a communistic view in which the leader decides the direction of the company, then it cascades down to presidents, vice presidents, etc. The leader is one voice, not voices of the whole corporate employees dictating to the leader of how the company should be run.

Unfortunately when most of us think everything is going fine they don’t have the passion to get involved in learning what is going on in their own community or even to go out and vote for our local officials…that’s just the way it is, even though in a growing city like ours it’s important to get everyone involved.

Do you mean to tell me that this council cares more about this community then they do their own egos?

Actually I do, in all levels of government this is common, what we need to do is not focus on the person disagreements between politicians but what each of them is trying to communicate to us on what they are trying to accomplish for us as a city, just filter out the personal attacks among themselves, it doesn’t bother me like it does you.

What Jeff says means nothing to this community

No Jeff what you have to say means a lot, I just hope you don’t get discouraged, because months ago you’d have all kinds of supporters from the RM group in here, it just seems like they faded away. I think the frustration is…at least in my view, is that you keep bringing up the same arguments even when they are answered and you don’t continue expand further once something’s been answered or even counter the point of view.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:43:00 AM
to 2:53: Elsinore is no longer as much a problem city as you imply, but anyone who knows anything about Lakeland Village would agree with you. a lot of Elsinore's bad reputation comes directly from the fact that they adjoin. LV is bad news, and I'd hate to see our city limits anywhere near it.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:48:00 AM
Mike ... Just wanted to let you know that no one has faded away. Some of us are reading what you have to say. You're not just preaching to the choir. Keep writing, please.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 9:25:00 AM
9:25 is right about people reading who have differing views, even some of the so-called "RM group". The so-called "RM group" includes a lot of people who actually think about the various issues, as opposed to a couple thick-headed individuals (i.e. Rholmgren, etc.) who do not have the mental agility to update their thoughts and who regularly flood this site with repetitive and hateful sounding words.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:28:00 AM
I hadn't read Kelly Bennett's editorial until now. I understand that their are two sides to this story and want to be clear that I don't think Mayor Enochs is without fault. I see Councilmen Seyarto doing the exact same things however that the Mayor is doing so it gets me to the same point. They need to get past this so as a community we can move on. The difference as I see it and again I don't have all the facts, is that Seyarto and McAlister are backed by bigger money and stronger players. I think when support for your campaign is backed by the biggest money in the area in the developers, the major and most smaller newspapers, the Chamber of Commerce, the Republican Party there is a reason. I see that almost half this community voted to recall Seyarto and Van Haaster was actually recalled. So more then half believe that they weren't doing a very good job and needed to be replaced, by basically inexperienced people. So now Mr. Seyarto, is focussed on the attack. not improving his standing as a Councilmen. Instead of attacking others, he should be telling us over and over what he is doing for us and how we can help. There are 80+ posts on here and many our mine. But what do I say in each post and what do I want as the theme? For them ALL to make this community better. I want them to work together. And Mike, I still feel that the operation of this community is a business and if it runs smoothly we can make progress but if it's not, it turns into what we have now. They are employees, whether voted in or hired in, employees and they take an oath of office I assume. With this oath comes the promise to do what's best for this community. I don't see that. I hate to keep making comparisons but if I am fighting with my wife, nothing in my home grows. I am unhappy, and she is too. Nothing gets done because we are either dwelling on anger or too unhappy to do anything useful. Thats whats happening here. Seyarto is unhappy with Mayor Enochs and he doesn't think too highly of the other two. Mayor Enochs doesn't think highly of Seyarto. They are yelling back and forth, through newspaper interviews. Kelly is more vocal and has said some very stupid public statements. But you don't have people in our Council that can really make this community grow or come together. I don't know any of them personally and you can ask the Rescue Murrieta crowd, I don't now any of them. But I can see this isn't working. I also believe that the developers have not given up here on Murrieta. There is still money to be made. I still think that they influence what is said and written in our city and think that they are pushing the return of Van Haaster agenda. I saw that "FAIR AND BALANCED" newspaper had a picture on the cover of Seyarto, McAlister and Ostling, and said in the caption...."oh. Mayor Enochs and Gibbs were there too". When development has eased here so will the tensions as the big money will shift.

All I have are opinions, but I am flexible in my thinking and willing to change. I don't think I'm never wrong, but feel my gut feelings are true to me. So to say that I believe that the money used to support these two candidates in defense of a recall, is and will be used to buy that support. Again.....why would they spend so much money unless they expected a payback??????????????? We see that payback with each vote by Seyarto and McAlister. Do you see their vote splitting on development issues?? The NRA doesn't spend millions of dollars lobbying and contributing to campaigns to see the candidates they support vote against their agendas. They buy the votes with support money. Well it's happening here too.

But not only is their support going to Seyarto and McAlister's staying in office, but I see their new strategy being to make any one of the other three look really bad and incompetent and possibly doing something illegal or unethical and next election, out goes either Enochs, Gibbs or Ostling and guess who all the money will go to support coming back. No one on here has said, no Jeff you're way off base. The newspapers even ran huge goodbye ads about him after he was drummed out for basically being unethical and performance issues. So we shall see.

The only reason anybody can defend the in-house fighting is that they know it will cause a change to the now Enoch power structure and then they have the chance to get back the Van Haaster power structure. If Seyarto changes and really turns his personality around and begins to work with the others, I would change my opinions around. But I feel his personality is not going to change and his opinions have been bought and paid for with support dollars. Kelly we don't need to hire anyone to increase your public image, what we need are projects for this community to get behind.

Hey can we get a Fry's Electronic store here?? (kidding).
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 1:20:00 PM
Jeff... You were not the only one who noticed that chamber of commerce photo. Any chance that photo could have ever been the other way around (I mean, showing Gibbs and Enochs, and saying "by the way, the other council members attended too?). Not a chance in H. The chamber is so politically prejudiced that it is nothing other than a political action committee. That would be OK, but their slanted local political agenda is being paid for by this city. That's not OK. That's a slap in the face of anyone who really cares about anything being "fair and balanced". Everyone sees the ulterior nature of the chamber's little tricks. Their squirrly actions contributed to the defeat of Van Haaster. And they are still playing right into the hands of their opponents. Good for them.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 1:53:00 PM
A follow-up to 1:20:

Yes indeed the newspapers lost their editorially endorsed guy when vanHaaster fell to the power of the voters. They could not even believe it happened.

And the huge political base of the good-ol-boys-and-gals network of Republican mutual back-scratchers could not believe it either, after getting almost everyone below the President to sign on to their mass mailing anti-recall campaign.

And the police and firefighters could not believe it either, after their incredibly biased propaganda attack with endorsement posters all over town.

And the fat cats, the big time developers could not believe it either, after half a million of their dollars proved too weak to bend the minds of the people.

Something remarkable happened in Murrieta's recall election. Something that is a testament to the power of the everyday citizen in a democracy.

I don't care whose side of this recall issue anyone was on, the fact is that we all have the right to admire the David vs Goliath kind of victory that happened in our town. A bit of history happened here. History that will perplex newspaper editorial staffs, political bigwigs, political consultants, campaign contributors, and local power brokers for a long, long time.

Mr. vanHaaster is not an evil man. The surface-level significance of his defeat, whether you believe it was wrong or right, pales in comparison to the victory of the average voter over a massive assault by every form of influence that could possibly be bought and assembled.

If Mr. vanHaaster's political hacks and self-appointed attack dogs do not continue to poison the political water in this town, I think Mr. vanHaaster could very well make a comeback. The citizens of this town have proven that they are independent thinkers, and they may well give him another shot at office. But if he comes calling with too much negative baggage (in the form of some of his so-called friends), he might as well forget it.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:05:00 PM
11:28 your writing style is familiar... Do not immaturely relate hate to my posts. THey are hard nosed but far from hateful. Your own mind is inserting the hate between my lines. Jeff since you read the Kelly Bennett piece in the Valley News; I was wondering if you also read the interview with our Mayor. He mentioned that it takes 85 days to build a house and 10 years to build a road. Home builders operate at the efficient pace that capitalist private enterprise demands. The construction of roads are dogged by the inefficientcy and red tape of government. Does it make sense to make productive enterprises less productive or unproductive government entities more productive? It is beyond incompetence that a road take so long to be designed and built. I was also concerned with Enoch's cavalier attitude toward low income housing occupants. There is a huge difference between the low income criminal element and the hard working low income people who seek upward mobility. Enoch's ignorantly lumped the poor together and presented them in a negative way. When affordable housing is done right it allows people a stepping stone on the road toward home ownership. We need housing in Murrieta for all income levels. Arrogant people like Enochs that have already achieved many of their financial dreams have no business throwing roadblocks up in front of the dreams of others. By the way Jeff I am not a Real Estate agent , but I do know many of them. 11:28 why don't you post again under your previous identity. Oh I forgot the silent watchers of this blog are so much more mentally agile than the rest of us. I was still wondering why W E got a pass when he lied about his room addition to the city. Does he live under a different set of rules than the rest of us(or Van Haster)?

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:47:00 AM
Just wanted to share an observation. Like Rholmgren seems to be doing, I've often tried to sort out some of the personalities in the blog by their writing style. What I find interesting is that, over time, some of the writers are apparantly picking up some of the style and lingo of other writers. To some degree, it has happened even among those who regularly identify themselves. To my way of thinking, it just proves that people do influence each other, even in something as loosely structured as this blog. And Jeff, by the way... Although I think some of what you said was taken the wrong way by a couple of blog participants, I wanted to say I AM in the real estate business. And like any other business or non-business pursuit, real estate has its usual share of decent and indecent personalities. In dealing with people from all walks of life, I've found the same kind of ethical mix to be true even among such honored professions as teaching and medicine. I've learned you can't determine anything about ethics along lines of professions.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:03:00 PM
Just what does RM group mean? I'm a Republican who is not part of any activist group but I voted against all three who were up for recall. Never went to a campaign meeting for any one or any group. Not part of any agenda group. Insult me if you want to. No one tells me what to do. I know others just like me.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:59:00 PM
2:59,
I'm glad that someone can come forward and not represent a total ideology and thinks beyond party lines. The point that I believe was made about Republicans was that the Republican party backed the "no" recall vote. It is also known that regular blogger Rholmgren is a hard line right winger. I have said all along that our councilmen are not going to lead us in civil rights or domestic policy and party lines often do not affect our city. But good for you, thats how everyone should vote, for the candidate that will benefit us most. I respect you for that, and don't want to insult anyone.

Now Rholmgren, I know nothing about Mr. Enochs addition. You'll have to clue me in. Did he paint pro abortion phrases on it or up with gay rights?? What has your underwear in a bunch (I believe that was your phrase).

2:03, I was not talking down about real estate agents when I asked Rholmgren if he was one, but this defense he is showing Councilmen Seyarto is as if he is benefiting from him or from Mr. Van Haaster being brought back. I thought if I was a real estate agent, the more houses to sell the better chance I can sell one. Just can't figure why anyone can stand up for someone walking the thin line with developers. Or someone who did something unethical no matter how nice a guy he was. I don't think second chances are in order, especially when someone has to get caught doing it and doesn't come forward on his own. I like how most councilmen and members of the planning commission come forward if they have a stake in agendas on the council and disquaify themselves. Thats how it should be. Mr. Van Haaster used the system and we have no idea how many other times he may have done it without getting caught.

I would like to challenge all of us as residents to push this council to work together and not work to other means. I think they should stop talking negatively about each other in the news and if they do, we know which ones are stirring an already spolied pot. Lets all answer them with our voices and say enough is enough. This is the hand you were dealt and the best ones will rise to the top and the others we will need to replace when the time comes. We have rid this community of a bad apple and if Mayor Enochs or Councilmen Seyarto are bad apples they need to be replaced with people who have one purpose and one purpose only. Working for the betterment of our community. They can acheive absolutely nothing while arguing, accusing and complaining. If there is unethical or illegal activity, this is not the place for it. The place is with the DA or the city attorney. If Mayor Enochs has the wrong license plates or did an illegal addition to his home, then Rholmgren should stand up and contact the authorities. PERIOD. I did just that. I have contacted the other council members about the comments that Mr. Seyarto made to me concerning the unethical and illegal activities on this blog. He needs to address them like a man and in public or shut the hell up. I as one resident wants this to come to an end. I will not tolerate anything unethical, taxes here are high enough and I for one want my money's worth. I ask you to stand up and call an end to this babyfit that these public servants are in the midst of. They need to stop or quit. One or the other. And these fair and balanced newspapers need to stop encouraging it, or we need to take our business elsewhere. I spend money like its water, and I can drive an extra mile and spend it in Temecula. We have shown we have the power here, they don't. We need to use it.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 5:36:00 PM
It's old news Jeff. W E lied about the square footage to a room addition on his house in order to avoid paying additional school fees. I don't know how it was resolved, but I always wondered why his illegal activities are swept under the rug while Van Hasters activities were paraded around in the media openly.I am also wondering why people keep accusing Mr Seyarto of activites that have no basis in fact. I read about Enoch's indescretion in the paper in one article and then heard nothing about it since. I am sure that the silent political insiders who read this blog know what I am talking about. I doubt they want to expand on this subject further. It would make the Mayor look bad. I also wonder why Jeff thinks it is important for the council to work in harmony. The only government bodies that operate with peaceful boring debate are in countries with authoritarian regimes. Lively cut throat debates are the blood of democracy.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 6:32:00 PM
Lively is one thing, but again we are not dealing here with political parties and ideological agendas. These are not live or die politicians, these are our neighbors. They are five not 200. If what you want is name calling, turn on Fox News. I want harmony with my money and within my city. God your blood hates one half of our society. I don't mind debates but name calling and personal accusations have no place in the public servants of Murrieta. Debates lead to good, but thats not what is happening. Does anyone else see this is wrong? Well Mr. Rholmgren, had Mayor Enochs activities been as dreadful as you say, all the" Fair and Balanced" papers would have had it on the front page with Mr. Van Haaster's family portrait. The " Fair and Balanced" slogan in this country has turned into a way to disguise right-wing propaganda.

I only see logical reasoning and I can be dead wrong, thats why we all should have an opinion. My opinion is not always right and it can change if I'm not right and proven wrong. But others can't change and don't know how to say they are wrong. Thats arrogance. All we have to do is look to our South to see what can happen when developers and Contractors get in bed with politicians, who may be good men. Tell me Rholmgren, why do these developers care who the Councilmen are????? They only care if they can get things easier by spending less money. They don't care if the councilmen is easy to work with or not. They don't care if he's a good family man. They care how much money he will put in their pockets. They are businessmen first and foremost. Van Haaster, Seyarto and McAlister voting block put loads of money in their pockets. What grade did you complete? Do you want councilmen that fall over when the developer comes calling r threatening lawsuits or ones that challenge them to do the best they can?? It seems that it just doesn't matter to you. Build Build Build is not an answer here. Build the right things is the answer.

You want lively hateful cut throat politics?? Well you have them and it doesn't look good. But maybe you want to pay for their time out of your own pocket. By the way, I would encourage a raise for them, after they come to work and play nice, but not at this time. So your proud of the politics leading to the need to recall three out of five of its Councilmen??? LOL.

All you do is label people and ways of thinking. You talked about being open-minded in one of your posts, but all you know is name calling. Especially if you can tag somebody with a name that appears to be unpatriotic. To tag them with siding with something other then Democracy. But Democracy is the only governemnt that encourages open-minded people and gives them the duty to speak out. All you know is that form of spin. If you challenge and ask questions you are against the flag or God or the government. What you can't see it's our duty to ask questions as citizens. Besides voting it's our only power to control what would be uncontrollable. And, above everything else, when the politicians change and ones you don't like are in office you will be the first one attacking them. Like I said, I have no reason to dislike Councilmen Seyarto or Mayor Enochs. But I do dislike people who are arrogant and disrespectful. If it looks like a horse and smells like a horse....it most likely is a horse.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:11:00 PM
Reading in the paper about how Jeff Stone is ruffling political feathers at the county and even at the state level. Glad to hear it. Most of these local level politicians eventually get settled in to a favor-for-favor political network and fade away into comfortable job security. By challenging the status quo, Mr. Stone will either get shot down or head higher up the ladder. Any bets as to which way this goes?

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 15, 2005 7:51:00 AM
As far as I could tell Stone did a good job in Temecula. A county supervisor in a big county like this has a lot of power. He can either do a lot of good or a lot of harm, so hopefully he'll play his cards right.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 15, 2005 9:48:00 AM
This Stone subject probably won't generate much buzz in Murrieta. Granted he's an important local political figure, but we don't know very much about how he will affect us yet.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 15, 2005 12:48:00 PM
I know this is a comment only a real estate person could love, but... Has anyone been into the new "Murrieta Spectrum" complex? (Across from the Best Buy). Wow. The developer actually put some real money into making that project top notch. Very nice.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 12:03:00 PM
Yeah, we drove by and saw it the other day. Not bad, but not exciting.

I don't get the Spectrum name. If anyone thinks its like the Irvine Spectrum, Wrong! Thats what they need it the triangle, somthing like Irvine Spectrum. Could put boring Murrieta on the map. Thats right it is borrrrrrrrrring here. This town is about as exciting as a nap.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 4:33:00 PM
433: You're 100 percent correct. What Murrieta lacks in excitement it makes up for with boredom.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 5:39:00 PM
539 again, I want to add that this blogsite is the most exciting thing in this town. That's not good.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 5:41:00 PM
Murrieta does kind of have a reputation for marching in place. Housing tracts and lots of small to medium commercial/industrial. But I've heard a few things about the Triangle that could get exciting.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:05:00 PM
JLM (or should I say, "Pollyanna"): We'll be lucky if the Golden Triangle is ever anything more than a rest stop. This town's political activists want to put every major project into the deep freeze. Why not just turn the whole damn town into a park?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:28:00 PM
6:28,
Hello friend. I don't recognize your input, so maybe you're new here. I've seen lots of angry words in this site, but very little cursing. Lets keep the rating "G", ok? There may be some kids who tune in. You'll get a lot more respect if you can express yourself without insults, cursing, and the like.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:51:00 PM
6:28,
What would make you excited if you made the decision on the triangle? How about you JLM? I for one would like something like the Irvine Spectrum with a restaurant row and a movie complex. It would be a great spot to showcase Murrieta. If we are the diamond of the valley, how about the diamond center?? OK....so I'm not a planner.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:23:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Did a little research on Mayor Enoch's room addition and got help from a friend, the Californian published something saying that Enoch did not have the permits required but then it was discovered by the City that he did and the Californian updated it's stories. The square footage of his home was also investigated and nothing illegal was found. They don't write what's not true. So Van Haaster still is the top dog of unethical activity in our home town.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 7:36:00 PM
Jeff he always has had the permit. That was never an issue.The issue was did he lie about the square footage.By listing a smaller square footage for a permit on a addition one can avoid paying additional fees. I read about it in the P.E. I do not have much faith in the Californian although I read it also.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:18:00 PM
Jeff... I really like your thinking on this. Most real estate is just routine business to me, but this piece of land is 100% exciting. I can picture an Irvine Spectrum type of arrangement, but with an even more upscale emphasis, because nothing yet has been built anywhere for over 40 freeway miles around us that serves this kind of need. And it is a rapidly growing need. If Murrieta does not find a way to meet it, then Temecula will. I've been around the world of real estate for decades, and I've never seen another piece of land with the kind of commercial potential this site has. Some other parcels in Orange County have come close in some ways, but the locally unique potential for future commercial revenues and sales tax revenues - and hopefully a very prominent local lifestyle enhancement - that could be produced by this location are almost too good to be true. Because of grandfathered rights that will leave the city out of most decision making on this land, we are all going to have to just wait and see. I believe Lewis (a major developer based in the Ontario area) is formulating the concept for the Dominigoni family, and laying the business foundation for what is to come. Most of what I've heard in the way of "informed rumors" sounds great, but still it's all just rumors and newspaper hints that we have to go on. It would be a shameful waste and a long-term misfortune if this site is not developed to its full potential. From what I've heard, I believe the city is trying behind the scenes to promote the commercial concept, but things are pretty hushed up at this point. Maybe someone from the city could share a bit of "unclassified" information in the blog...?
JLM

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:24:00 PM
jlm
i skim these posts couple times a week. know a little about lewis, triangle etc. won't say if i'm with city, lewis or ?, i like my position & want to keep it.
think i know who you are and you may recognize me. not real initials, right? i can say this/ the triangle is going to be big. you wont believe it. your ideas are not far off base, but not big enough. believe it.

someday we will talk.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:11:00 AM
Mr. Seyarto... Thanks very much. This piece of land is literally the commerical cornerstone of Murrieta. The commercial future of this city, and the class of tax revenues the city falls in, will revolve around what happens here.
JLM

8:11... If you can share more, please do. You make it sound as though some firm decisions have been made. I had not heard that before. You are right about the initials, and if you actually do know me you can probably figure out why I chose them. Please add to what you said if possible.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:35:00 AM
hey this is Warnie Enochs youngest son. I think its funny all the stuff thats being said. Your just lucky you didnt have to live with him for 17 years.. If you have any questions, I'd be more than glad to help you out because i am currently not living with him anymore. so feel free to ask. If you do not believe this is who i say i am, my email is fear017@yahoo.com you can email me your questions.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:23:00 PM
Hark, do I detect the stirrings of disgruntled youth? Are we now to be blessed with the babbles and wailings of a grown child who wants to strike at daddy for all the real or imagined lapses of good parenting during his childhood? OK, then. Give it your best shot, kid. Keep us amused with your version of "Daddy Dearest". Spill your guts. Tell us your family secrets. We can't wait.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:53:00 PM
It's the start of a political dynasty, right here in Murrieta. WE always put his finger to the air to see which way the political wind was blowing, and then he went that way. His boy can see that almost everyone in town wants his dad out of office, so that's the way to go. "Nothing personal, Dad, just politics." Dad should understand, because he's the very same kind of person. Your genes are coming back to haunt you Warnie.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:16:00 PM
Jeff go meet with Enochs and find out the truth. It would be interesting to witness how Enochs spins the truth about how he under estimated the square footage of his addition. He'll probably pull his dumbness with humility routine.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:16:00 PM
Complete agreement here with Mr. Seyarto. Whether in business or politics, a moral obligation exists to keep family matters out of the discussion. But beyond that, the child of any public figure should be warned that their parent is in an arena that shows no mercy. Regardless of what we may think of a politician's views, it takes a lot of courage to run for office, and to take the punches that are thrown. The mean spirited nature of what was said earlier is just a tiny sample of what a public figure has to endure all the time. Although I may not always agree with the politics of any council member, I personally admire Mr. Enochs and all the other members of the council for their ability to persevere through the merciless pounding to which they are always subjected. All of you have my respect for that.
JLM

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:25:00 PM
There is no need to air the Enoch's family dirty laundry here. Keep family matters private.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:44:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
Sorry I don't think it is the best interest of Murrieta if you were to meet with me alone, but I think that it is the best interest to tell the City Attorney or the States Attorney about unethical activity.

I agree that Mayor Enochs family matters have no business in a internet blog.

Was disappointed Kelly that your vote siding with Mayor Enoch on the salary increase was not made with your heart as stated by Ms Mitchell in her article today in the Californian. Your vote is a precious commodity and you were voted into your position to use that vote to make things better in Murrieta. Not to vote to show up the Mayor. This is exactly the wrong attitude that any Councilmen should have. If Mayor Enochs is playing up to the public with his vote and says he didn't do it for that purpose, what did your vote do except waste it on revenge purposes. Make your vote count for what you believe please. Thats why your in office. Or step down and let someone without an agenda to damage the reputations of others step in. Like all my posts say, you seem to be more interested in making the Mayor look bad then working for issues that will make a difference. If Mayor Enoch has a different agenda in his voting and you think it will damage this community, you should be on here explaining exactly why you vote a certain way and why it is a benefit to all of us. That would sway attitudes, but all I see is the Van Hasster re-election agenda going on here. If the Council doesnt need the extra $500 raise per month due all of you together, why not vote for it and donate it to the servicemen's families living in this town for the remainder of your terms??
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 18, 2005 4:38:00 PM
But Kelly, you made a vote just for the sake of creating an image that you make statements with your votes. It's all you are about. You didn't say that you voted what is best for Murrieta. Have you ever voted outside of a voting block, for things you believe in??? You said you are making a statement. But do the people who voted you into office want you to make personal statements with your votes?? I wouldn't think so. They want you to use your educated opinion to help this community. Why is that going over your head?

I have been told by someone who investigated Mayor Enochs permits and home addition that they couldn't find anything. This is from someone who regularly reads this string and does this for a living. This person appears neutral and has no personal agenda as far as I can tell.

IF HE HAS DONE SOMETHING UNETHICAL OR ILLEGAL AND YOU KNOW ABOUT IT, THEN REPORT HIM OR YOU BECOME PART OF THE COVERUP. You took an oath to report such things and protect us from this type of thing. But youre saying that you cannot because it may damage other people. Don't you have a duty to all of us that goes well beyond protecting others from letting activities go on that don't benefit this city but hurt it??? Could I possibly be wrong here about this duty?? Or is it the same duty or obligation you feel siding and protecting the Developers who spent all that money to keep you in the council?????

So why would I be involved at all in questioning Mayor Enochs with you? It surely isn't my job or responsibility, but why not get one of the local papers involved? Why would I explore things that you seem to have inside information on. My taking steps can only be steps that I have already taken as a resident and that's to report that you are alluding to things on here, showing this string and letting people who have the power get it resolved. When and if these people do get answers we will then find out if indeed Mayor Enochs is a fraud or you are? Convincing me is not an issue here.

I have no idea what issues you and the Mayor differ on as these are not areas you want to explain to us. I asked you to do that in my last post.

I am not in the least defending Mayor Enochs. If he was on here posting and I differed with him, I would be posting asking him questions also. The same with any of the Councilmen. You however are on here and I feel it is my duty in this open forum to ask you things that cross my mind. You have the right to answer as you have done in some cases and ignore me in others. Like why you are up in arms about something Enochs has alledgedly done that we have no knowledge of and why you sat on your hands when your pal (JVH) got caught with his hands in the cookie jar? No answer to such an easy question confuses me when you want to be so open. No answer to the re-election agenda of our (recalled for unethical activity) ex-mayor? Of course not, that would show the true colors of the current Mac-Kelly tag team. Some may be naive but not all of us.
So Kelly, show us ALL some proof. If you have no proof and you are just about unproven allegations then......who cares what you think? In almost every statement coming out of our City Council, whether it be open articles in our "BIASED" local Chamber of Commerce newspaper, or stories in the Californian, all we the residents hear is revenge, dislike, bad attitudes and a council that votes to make statements but does not vote for benefit of our city. All I hear from you is talk about the THINGS that Enochs has. His Big SUV and his CUSTOM home. Are you jealous??????????? Whats up with that?
I am not crying to you, not at all, but you seem to be like a big kid, telling us that you didn't do it.....he did it. I just think that people who aren't working as hard as they can for me, doing whatever it takes to do the job right, aren't worth $5 a month let alone $500. Do you know where Mayor Enochs City Council salary goes when he gets a pay raise he didn't want? Are you prevy to his tax return that he might not contribute it back to the community? I have also heard the Mayor has for years collected cars and motorcycles and has always had money.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:00:00 PM
Jeff you are still a coward. Are you afraid to discover the truth? The answers you seek are slapping you in the face. Your source on Enochs was wrong. Go find out the truth like a real man and ask Enochs face to face. You should be very motivated at this point to dicover the truth. If you stop now then it proves that you are more motivated by an agenda than by the truth.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 19, 2005 7:58:00 AM
Jeff,

I refuse to participate in the discussion with Rholmgren and Councilman Seyarto. It is really unproductive. Rholmgren is like a school-yard bully. He thinks by beating his chest, yelling louder and name-calling he's engaging in debate. He's simply rediculous.

As for Councilman Seyarto, he is in narcissistic denial. He thinks his pal JVH is squeaky clean. In fact, the night that Seyarto chaired the City Council meeting where the JVH day care center was approved by Seyarto and McAllister's votes, Seyarto told the residents in attendance that he would not even allow any discussion of the ethical problems with the JVH project. He said that he "could vouch for the ethics of JVH."

It was his action which caused Rescue Murrieta to be born that very night in the City Hall parking lot. Seyarto thinks he rules this City. He has no concept of servanthood. He knows best and we should all just shut up and let him do for us.

Well the residents rejected Seyarto's assessment of JVH. And, Jeff, you are absolutely right, Seyarto, McAllister, the Chamber, Dan Stevenson, etc. are all on the track to return JVH to the Council so they can continue to build whatever - where ever they want.

Personnally, I think you are wasting your time trying to reason with either one of these protagonists. I realized the futility some time ago.

Anyway, your perseverance is admired.

Edward Faunce

PS Kelly, I notice that you are still in denial over whether WE was behind the recall. (You said that some were naive referring to Rescue Murrieta.) You are such a fool to think that WE provided the energy of a year-long effort to rid the City of JVH. It's too bad we didn't rid ourselves of you as well. You have demonstrated, since the recall, that you are unable to move on. Rescue Murrieta has been very quiet, choosing to work through the City and its staff to address problems. You have continued to complain about those who ruined your view of where the City. But you need to accept the decision of the voters. After all, you got your message out with the help of $550,000 from your developer supporters.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 19, 2005 10:10:00 AM
This is getting interesting! Jeff, Councilmen Seyarto asked you to meet with him and Mayor Enochs to discuss the issues you keep bringing up and yet you have no interest in the meeting.

Let me throw this out there, Councilmen Seyarto would you be interested in not only inviting Jeff but the other bloggers (even non-bloggers) to join in this meeting? It would almost be like a “Mini Town Hall Meeting” where the members of the council can debate the issues without the restrictions of a regular Tuesday council meeting. I would love to see something like this.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 19, 2005 10:51:00 AM
It is nice to see that Mr Faunce has finally stopped being a silent watcher of this blog. I think that your characature of me as a school bully was pretty funny. Thanks for a good laugh. I wish that I was half the debater that you are. At this point most of us do not care to rehash Recall issues. I could care less about Enoch's involvement at this point.In a previous posting I had mentioned the double standard that has been practiced by the media and RM. I basically stated that JVH had his dirty laundry in the public spot light while WE had his indescretions swept under the rug. I want one standard for all. What Jack did was unethical and what Enochs did was illegal. Why would RM publically blast one unethical official and at the same time be allies with an official that has committed illegal acts? What kind of message is being sent to the Murrieta community? I think the message is this: Mayor Enochs lives under one set of rules and laws; the rest of live under another set of rules and laws. DO NOT be blinded by an agenda. The truth and fairness must be of paramount importance in our community. Mr Faunce if you want to see a real chest beater then go rent King Kong on DVD. I am only trying to use the force of my words to get my point across. If you and others refuse to particpate because you feel that you are too good to stoop down to my level then so be it. Political battles are won in the dirty trenches. I hope that you and others put aside your political arrogance and answer the hard questions.

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 19, 2005 5:55:00 PM
All,
To answer Mike and that guy that calls everyone names like a first grade Rush Limbaugh, what difference does it make for Seyarto and Enochs to address just me??? So I can come on here and tell everyone what I know and have the Rush Limbaugh juniors tell me that I'm wrong again. I want EVERYONE to hear it. Thats why politicians want one on one conversations so they can dispute what they say or put a different spin on it after the fact. I agree Mike, lets all hear it first hand.

If Mr. Seyarto knows all of this illegal activity and has proof of it and has such high standards he would report it to the right authorities. Instead he's typing it on here, in virtually a secret forum. Come on Kelly, tell the authorities or shut up. I won't ask you to have guts or to be a man as Rholmgren would ask me to be, I ask you to be OUR COUNCILMAN.

You are most definitely jealous of the things he has. You have mentioned in numerous posts how big or special the things he has are.

Van Haaster apologized for what Kelly? Because he's such a great guy and he didn't do anything wrong???? No because he tried to cheat all of us. How incredibly ridiculous an argument you make. Where were you when he apologized to all of us???? Still vouching for him. I have a bridge to sell you then, or maybe ones already being built by a developer you know. To compare Mayor Enochs speculated transgression against actual facts? Show us the actual facts and I will lump JVH with WE. But you haven't done that. All your posts have are accusations with no proof. Kind of what I did when I assumed that you are taking graft. I can think it and have an opinion but I have no proof. But you don't want to hear it do you. But then I'm not a public servant....YOU ARE. I don't go around exclaiming to everyone what my co-workers have or don't have. If I did they'd say the same things to me that I say to you. That you're jealous of them. I have no issue with your happiness and family. They are not part of this blog.

Character is how someone portrays themselves and how they act. Well we can see how you act and how you portray yourself pretty clearly on here. At City Council meetings we have seen your personality traits shine also.

So if the things you say are true and you can state them to the right officials and to ALL the residents of Murrieta I will back you completely in getting Enochs out. But all I have heard is come meet me in my office with Enochs in private. That doesn't work. What could I do about it?

I am not OK with any unethical and illegal behavior, thats why I have reported your comments to the right people and will watch the action they take. The people who don't take sides and investigate will tell all of us. You say it's a big problem with you and until it is addressed. WELL YOUR NOT ADDRESSING IT!!!!! I DID FOR YOU!!!! So how are my actions defending the Mayor??????

We are not as Naive as you want us to be are we Mr. Seyarto. Here is the one question I would like you to tell us. Are you for Jack Van Haaster coming back to serve this community, even though he was recalled and apologizing for being unethical??????? Don't answer anything else, just that.

I will do my best to spread the JACK VAN HAASTER Agenda message and will work overtime to do so. Telling us that you vouch for JVH, you remember him, the guy who apologized, is a lack of character in my opinion. It's like hiring OJ to come here and teach anger management classes. Maybe we can also get Cunningham to move here from Oceanside to serve on the Council, I hear he is looking for a new job and knows how to deal with Contractors.

Rholmgren, cowards live to call names and look down their noses at others opinions, but can't formulate their own without the help of an agenda or daily talking points. People who don't have a specific agenda feel things they hear and see and are sometimes wrong, but at least they think for themsleves. If you want Murrieta politics to mirror what you see as "real" politics in Washington DC today, you pretty much have it here, so you stay happy. As for me being a coward....well.....I have proof I'm not....where's your proof. Purple hearts usually don't lie. You know Chickenhawks don't know anything about the term coward. So turn your radio up and get your daily talking points.......do you abuse prescription drugs too.

Lastly Rholmgren, my source does investigating for a living.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Friday, August 19, 2005 6:54:00 PM
Jeff maybe your investigator needs to find a new line of work. Sitting behind a computer and running nexus searches is no substitute for real life face to face questioning is it? You are real mistaken if you think that I spend my day listening to talk radio in order to learn my next political stance. I am right wing from the inside out. I need no guidance from anyone. I have been involved in face to face inpromptu verbal debates in the past in front of an audience and I didn't need to listen to talk radio for a week in order to build up my talking points or nerve. In the past week I have listened to sports talk radio mostly. I am more of a sports fan than a political junkie. I listen to Rush from time to time and I also listen to KFBK 90.7 which is a left wing talk radio station. I think that KFBK is generally more interesting than Rush. Their broadcasts sound somewhat boring compared to Rush, but it is a good way to keep up with the twisted and decietful way that liberals( No I mean progresives - no no I mean moderates whoops I mean environmentalists ) view the world.If you take left wing stances in your posts don't be surprised when you are called out and labeled. It is not hateful and it is not name calling. You should not be surprised at being called liberal, or socialist, or cowardly when you openly support the positions of those groups or take a cowardly stance. I told you in a previous posting that you were brave when you served in the military in Vietnam. Being brave in the past is no guarantee that you will remain brave throughout the rest of your life. You are just like everyone else. Sometimes we are brave in some decisions and positions and at other times we take the easy and cowardly position. On many occasions your questions have been answered by Mr Seyarto, yet you still stubbornly re-phrase your questions as if somehow a different answer more to your liking will materialize. You state that you are not an Enochs supporter, yet your posts have never said anything critical of him. You are only critical of Mr. Seyarto. You must be an in the closet Enochs supporter. You are sounding more like Bill Clinton with each additional post. " I am not for or against this issue but........ " I don't follow an ideology but..... OH COME ON! I think that Mike's idea is brilliant. How about a town hall type meeting that is not constrained like a council meeting. It should be focused on ethics and and the legal behavior of the council. Also I heard that the Valley News interview with Mayor Enochs had most of the insulting and controversial materal edited out. Is there any way of getting an unedited version. I want to know what was said during that interview. Maybe in will add some insight as to whether the Mayor is really good for Murrieta.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:48:00 AM
The fact that anyone would say that an apology is for a "perceived transgression" says a lot about how sincere that apology is. It is completely insincere. The "perceived" part implies that the "transgression" was not real. It also implies that the person apologizing is humble enough to say "I'm sorry", even when there is nothing to be sorry about. Such artificial humility is a bunch of baloney, and anyone who swallows it will find it very, very hard to digest. In fact, we've been handed the same baloney for so long that it has started to smell. And the hand that keeps pushing it toward us is starting to take on that smell. That hand, of course, belongs to Kelly Seyarto.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:26:00 PM
I love that nothing ever gets accomplished here. Kelly and Rholmgren, the person I know has interviewed you many times Mr. Seyarto. Enough said. They know whats going on and assured me that the information you speak of is old and unture news. It's all you have against Enochs. Why the personal attacks. Because they are the only thing you have against Enochs? Tell me where he is hurting this community outside of his personal belongings, his home, his vehicles and his family. You know the things you are jealous that he has. All again are unsubstantiated rumors.

So Kelly if any of your sources had anything, it would be all over the news and newspapers. Because all of the Newspapers have been against Enochs, against the recall. They would jump all over it, so all it is is your wanting to stir up old news that was retracted from the Californian. Thats what one of our City Councilmen is all about.....nothing. I hear no arguments for what bad things Enochs is doing in the interest of this community and no good things that you are for. Does no one else see this. What is clear is that he is taking the higher road and not attacking you in any blogs Ive seen. I see you attacking his character everyday on here. So you are spreading what I see as rumors and alluding to things that you are not strong enough to present to anyone but us few. Van Haaster is a admitted cheat and anyone that stands behind a cheat to represent this community must also agree and think that type of politics is OK. But doesn't it fit really well. Lets see now. Kelly thinks what Jack did is OK. Jack and Kelly and little Mac have developers spending half a billion dollars to keep them in office.....two plus two equals what? Now lets talk political character. Those are the red flags that this community should see and did see in the recall election. Developers building houses up are rears and no infrastructure. Business doing whatever they want and no infrastructure. Traffic in two years worse then downtown areas of big cities. Instead of building the infrastructure and then the sub-divisions, we just build homes. Now homes that won't sell as the ones across the street from me. Just too many homes on small lots. But Kelly is on here worrying that the Mayor is teaching his unlicenced kid to drive and doesnt have proper license plates on his car. Yes, that really matters to me. I worry all night about it. What I do worry about are developers buying politicians. I really worry about that. I worry that our politicians are consorting with recalled cheats and maybe agreeing with scams on us. Thats what I worry about. I worry that our High Schools are overcrowed and kids are not getting what we the citizens paid for. I worry about my increased travel time to work, spending less time with my family. I worry about high and higher taxes. I see water still running down the streets near our new police station and the roads crunbling even though we live in the desert. I see contractors taking months and months to finish projects and we live where they can work 24/7 every day, not in the snow and cold of Chicago. The roads as a matter of fact are in better condition there. But mostly I see this City Council that is not doing anything but fighting calling each other names and worrying about license plates. Just go to work!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your not doing your job. How tough is that???

Rholmgren, unless you have once been brave how can you know what a coward is? How do you know youre right-wing unless you know exactly day to day what they believe in. Whatever they believe you believe. Well I know that Im open minded, but like Enochs said in that interview in the....what newspaper.....the Van Hasster Chamber of Commerce rag.....that I too want Murrieta, upscaled in comparison to Lake Elsinore and Wildomar and Hemet and Sun City. I would like to see less apartments and less lower income residents. I would like to see bigger parks and ball fields. More schools, more police and firemen. Higher paid service people. I wouldnt mind paying our City Council members full-time pay if that was ever an issue. Now how right-wing conservative is that view point? I don't want illegal aliens lining our streets. Im for the death penalty and abortion in most instances but not all. Im open minded. Im for my right to die, Im for higher pay for teachers and for police and firemen. I am not for tax cuts. I think that global warming is a fact. I am not for some sort of gun controls so criminals can't buy guns. Im for responsibility in Corportaions. And I believe in God. And I gave you Rholmgren 5 years of my life as a grunt in the jungles of Vietnam and today make medical devices for everyone.But a coward. No. It takes someone brave to do question when everyone is for something. It takes honesty to question. Trust me, Im not perfect by any means and have done things that Im not proud of but I have never taken anyones trust and damaged it, nor have i profitted from anyones demise. I will put up my credentials against anyones anyday and find out where I measure up. That mother in Texas who is standing up is no coward. She is alot braver then most Americans. The comment always is to soldiers who come back and protest against the administation, thanks but shut up. Bravery are the ones, either way they feel that stand up and tell us what they think. They earned that right.

So to both of you, tell me more that you know for facts about Enochs and I will stand side by side with you. But its no different then me standing here with no proof that Councilmen Seyarto and McAlister are taking something from developers for the votes they cast. Tell us facts and we will listen, tell us stories and you are unbelieveable.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:15:00 PM
Mr Seyarto,
This is the unethical and illegal behavior you have???? His son drove the car without a license and he didn't have proper licenses on his vehicle and you want me to ask him that???? I think my Father let me drive at 15 or 16 when I was a kid and yours probably let you and countless others got their first tastes of driving this way. That's your problem with Mayor Enochs and its OK for Van Haaster to cheat us with the Day Care Center fiasco. What are you doing in the City Council? You are better suited to be a traffic cop. Are you a frustrated traffic cop??? Is that what this is all about. I'm sure if you applied with your influence with the Police force that you could at least be the school crossing guard.

Come on Kelly, what is Enochs doing wrong in his City Council work??? What major problems is he creating? What ideas do you differ on? These are questions I have been asking and asking and asking. We know that you agree now that what Van Haaster did wasn't wrong. We now know your sources of illegal and unethical behavior are High School kids talking about Enochs family. Did his gardener measure the square footage of his home for you?? Smoke....no real questions that deserve real answers. What does Kelly offer that Enochs lacks besides proper license plates. It's as if the residents of this town care if you get a speeding ticket and then want to question your ethics? Come on!!! Dig deep. Let's weigh the ethics here. On one side we have Mayor Enochs committing major traffic felonies, alledgedly I might add. And on the other side we have a Councilmen that stands besides a recalled public sevant for REAL unethical behavior that he half-heartedly apologized for and also has rich businessmen funnelling hundreds of thousands of dollars into his small town election. Let me see,.....wait....the scale is tipping......NO.....it feel over.

Jeff, come and ask Mayor Enochs if he let his son drive without a license and didn't properly put his license plates on his vehicle. I not only would pass on it, I'd be embarrassed to ask. But follow down this path Kelly, it will be great for YOUR re-election campaign. Your signs that line the street will tell us all about you getting Enochs to drive safer. Thanks, but I'm the guy sitting in traffic as another concrete truck is blocking the road pouring another driveway.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 3:48:00 PM
Jeff are you sure you live in Murrieta? The town you describe is on some other planet. Global warming is a fact. The causes of it are not yet determined. There have been plenty of times in the past where the earth warmed and cooled on its own.I do like the fact that you believe in the 2nd amendment. I do believe in having adequate police and fire prorection but not at the expense of fiscal responsibility. As for corporate responsibility: I think with so much news and information at our disposal today it is getting real difficult for companies to get away with irresponsible acts without the public's knowledge. However most people base their decisions on product cost and quality and would probably overlook a corporation's sins. Kelly Sheehan may not be a coward, but she sure is making a public mockery of her son's sacrifice. Listen to KFBK. Last week they broadcasted live from her vigil. I am not going to repeat any of her quotes. I will say this: My right wing postings are saintly compared to what she has said and accused others of doing. Go do the research yourself. I dare you to back up her wacko rhetoric. Did you know that the president met with her privately before her vigil? Her vigil was more of a publicity stunt to further her own left wing agenda than to honor her brave fallen son. Now that Ostling has declared that he will not run again next year it is time to gear up to re- establish a rational city council not heade by W.E. I find it kind of corny that you think W.E's silence somehow equates to him taking the higher ground. Wow you are so out of touch! The higher ground is not the perch that W.E. operates from. He is staying quiet probably because he could not handle being scrutinized by the fee wheeling nature of this blog. If anyone is on higher ground it is K.S. He is involved and engaging. Look at all of the regional committees he is on and then compare that to how W.E. is barely involved regionally. The backbone of the W.E. support are the same people who brought you recall.Look at D> M. and his positive efforts at tring to have builders constuct houses that can be universally used by the ambilitory and the disabled.Can you name a positive thing that W.E does besides getting the city involved in developer lawsuits? I have many long time friends and I have stood by them even when they have made bad actions or decisions. Did it ever cross your mind that K.S. may consider JVH a friend? It is an admired quality to stand by and support a friend even when they have done something unethical.Everyone should be forgiven for their mistakes and then life should move on. If JVH decides to make a comeback then I am sure he is man enough to make the decision on his own. I think the politics of this town will prevent that in the near future. We are morphing into a political environment that matches the town's growing size. Murrieta's small town feel is gone and we now have to mature into a medium sized city. One more thing: Did you read about how the Feds massively short changed our area(Riverside County) in highway funding? At the same time the Bakersfield area had its funding go from 55 million to 700 million plus. It is surreal that an area with numerous traffic issues would be underfunded and an area with few traffic issues would be obscenely over funded. It's like I've always said: Houses will be built but government must keep up with infrastructure. Our representatives at the state and federal levels are failing us. The developers are just doing what they do best. As for your stance on migrants: Viva Mexico! Viva Guatemala! Viva Centro y Suro America! Viva los immigrantes que trabajan en Los Estados Unidos!

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 3:48:00 PM
Holmgren: From the outburst that closed your rambling paragraph I'd guess you had some spoiled refried beans for lunch. Maybe a little more time in the bathroom and less at the keyboard would be advisable. There's more than one way to get rid of excess gas. You put good causes to shame.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 7:09:00 PM
I guess that rambling answers are needed in order to respond to Jeff's diverse machine gun rhetoric. Sorry gotta go before the refried beans blow.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:41:00 PM
Wow Rholmgren,

I love the bathroom humor. Are you one of Kelly's High School sources?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:50:00 PM
Jeff,

See what I mean about trying to discuss with Rholmgren and Seyarto. You might as well talk to a wall. They are not worth the time you take to try to break through to them.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:58:00 PM
Mr Faunce you are also impossible to get through to because the Murrieta that you want is not the Murrieta that I want. The politcal climate that you and your organization has fostered is toxic to this city. You are right it is a waste of your time trying to convince me that your version of Murrieta is better than the K.S. version of Murrieta. My efforts on this blog are not to win you over to my side or find some middle ground with your or Jeff's positions. I am part of the demograpic that represents about half of this city. Your demographic is roughly the other half.I hope you and your bretheren are still full of yourselves after the recall. The next election may also have a similar slim margin of victory. Hopefully your side will lose. It could be a few hundred vote margin again. Please stop lumping me together with K.S. I am my own man with my own opinion. I am here on this blog not to win debates but to hear opposing views. I would rather listen than talk. I know some people who surround themselves with mostly like minded thinkers. They all see politically the same way;they agree on most issues;they get along quite well. I prefer a mix of views and company. The conversation is more interesting. Jeff as for the bathroom humor lighten up.It is Saturday night so get out and socialize and use the sense of humor in the real world that you never use on this blog. Aloha J is waiting have a sober night.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:27:00 PM
Rholmgren,

You misunderstood me when I said to Jeff it was not worthwhile addressing you. I was not referring to convincing you, I was referring to simply discussing issues in a rational way. You are so in love with labels, (you say you're a right winger) you can't get past them. Basically, you're boring.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:42:00 PM
If Van Haaster bent the rules of the city, he probably did the same in his tax accounting business. It's no stretch to say that people who break the law in one area usually do it in others as well. I guess it really depends on whether he thought he could get away with it.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:27:00 PM
Kelly, you never have to answer anything I ask as I am trying to expose you for what you are. Someone who is right no matter what and if you challenge him then you are not worth his time and he doesn't represent you. Does that remind you of someone that works in Washington DC? and you can see where his approval rating is going.

I am Murrieta and so are You.

If a politician does something he apologizes for then he has tried to get away with something and has cheated you and I. But wait, you agree with this behavior. Now you told us in the above post that he did nothing wrong and his apology was basically so he could keep his job. Great Mayor. Let's bring this guy back.

Again, all you have are allegations against Mayor Enochs. It's a joke. Let's assume that he intentionally put false information on a document and it saved him on his taxes. Why isn't he charged with a felony and perjury???? Most of the authorities in town don't back him. The police and firemen choose to back the three village guys. The Chamber of Commerce knows where their bread is buttered, and the newspapers backed by your group are all unfair and unbalanced in everything they wriet. There is nothing concrete out there. Nothing. Show us the proof that he's being prosecuted for doing something illegal. I'll help you run him out of town if he is brought to court for perjury or a felony. I just offered you help. But I won't have to help you because it will never happen. Now, be my Councilmen and take him to the authorities for this illegal document......but alas.....you can't.

Now the next accusation is a mysterious "big" black truck that is out destroying signs. Oh, yea,....it was reported by who????? Oh yea the CEO of one of your developer friends was driving down our streets and he saw the Councilmen Enochs, jumping around, hammer in hand, hiding in the shadows at 3 in the morning. Well this CEO was so distraught becuase his 19.99 signs were disappearing that he was patroling. And you are one of our Councilmen telling me this. You know I heard that W.E. was really Osama Bin Laden, but that came from some High School kids I know. This is how stupid what you allude to is. Again I say, you actually work in the City Council???

Of course Jack is your friend. We saw it with each vote you made and with the defense of his unethical activity right now. Can you guys send me the spreadsheet where the developers calculate how much money they have made with each vote they paid for. I'd really like to see how much money they will spend next time to get Jackie back in. Couple mil right?

See, again what I mean about how you treat friends when they do something unethical.....Its no big deal right? But then I should trust you and your "friends" with my tax money and handing out money decisions? We see where that got us handing out this trust, into a recall.

I can't believe I have to keep telling a Councilmen to grow up.
You're right you don't represent my interests. Neither do Van Haaster or McAlister, you represent the money that backs you. That is my allegation and MY RHETORIC. You make me laugh, because you DO work for me, the $500 a month you get comes out of my (Murrieta residents) pocket. Just like I work for the shareholders that own my company. I am a taxpaying share holder of Murrieta. Of anything you have said, that you are not mature enough to understand that, makes me feel that another recall should be done and one of your High School sources brought in. Quit bugging you.....LOL.....thats how you earn part of the $500 bucks a month you make. You wanted it and you have to deal with it. Life in the "little" big city. These e-mails are not being written to you really, you're just answering me. I wouldn't come on to a public forum and act stupid and say really irresponsible things. I would be telling you the great ideas I have. Everyone, then would see how important to this community you are. Instead we hear about missing license plates, a dad letting a son drive the car before he has his license (which most of us have done in our lives), a big black truck with an older guy running around at 3am......does this sound real to anyone. Was Enochs kid doing drugs in the car to or just drinking beer. Maybe Enochs was looking in windows too while he was sneaking around in the dark. This is almost laughable but it's coming from a public servant, not a 11 year old kid that makes it kind of sick.

You need not answer any of my posts. It won't stop me from asking and Rholmgren will keep answering and some of your other friends too. But I think any of these backers on here are slowly backing up alittle. Maybe if you don't answer me you can make some more deals or you Jackie and Dougie can plan how your next power play will work. No fun anymore. Take your ball and go home.

But....Kelly......you still haven't told me what Mayor Enochs is for that is so hurtful to Murrieta. You still haven't said anything about your great solutions for us. Oh yes you did....you wanted a public relations person.....isn't that right.....after your postings on here, maybe you should hire a complete office of people just for you. And you want ethics enforcement. Well that may just happen, close your eyes and wait.........
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Saturday, August 20, 2005 11:37:00 PM
Our arrogant Councilmen Kelly Seyarto is standing before us and saying that former Mayor Van Haaster didn't try and cheat this city, by improving roads in front of a day care center, proposed by his daughter. A day care center where Mr. Van Haaster's wife earned between $10,000 and $100,000, for part-time work. This is also a daughter's who's home and day care center at the time were in Jack Van Haaster's name.

So improving the street at the cost of the city so that Jack and his family could benefit alone is not cheating this city? If this project was going to be such an incredible benefit to our city by such an incredible Mayor, why didn't he fund the project out of his own pocket?

Every comment I heard was that this act by a City Council Mayor was an act of impropriety. Voting on this traffic improvement that would potenially profit him and then saying that the City Attorney OK'd that his vote was proper is defintely misleading us and trying to take advantage of us, or for a better word, cheat us. Here is a quote from a legal expert. It's very bad judgment on his part," said Dan McNeill, an editor with the Josephson Institute of Ethics. The Los Angeles-based nonprofit, nonpartisan organization strives to improve the ethical quality of society by advocating ethical decision-making. McNeill said van Haaster has created a perception of impropriety.

This is the very perception that Councilmen Seyarto and McAlister and former Mayor Van Haaster displayed encouraging developers to back them with half a million dollars ($500,000). These are the same three Councilmen that voted as a block for almost every development, often against the wishes of the residents that surround these developments. Often complaints were ignored and arrogance displayed.

This is the same arrogance and acceptance of impropriety that Councilmen Seyarto has displayed in this blog. If you don't accept his take on something or his lame brained accusations, he doesn't want to represent you anymore. The residents of this town is are too naeive to understand things, only Mr. Seyarto has a clear picture. This Councilmen wants to tell us if we don't agree with him, then he has no time for us. Are these the qualities we want in our Councilmen? Is Kelly Seyarto a person that benefits our community? Impropriety is OK with him as long is it's a good friend. But if you are a Murrieta resident that differs then you are scum and a dummy. If you challenge him as Mayor Enochs has done, he will dig up every little item he can, throw them against the wall to see what sticks and call him unethical.

No Kelly, I'm not defending Mayor Enochs, thats his job. Im defending me the resident against you the arrogant Councilmen. I hope that the small amount of voters that were bombarded with daily flyers in your defense, that could have replaced you with a trainee, see you for what you are. An unethical politician, hungry for power, better then us in his own mind, backed by the money of the people we need protection from. The almighty developer, who would build on top of building if he could. The developers who continue to build bigger and bigger homes on smaller and smaller lots. Who narrow streets to the smallest dimensions. Who cut corners to save more and more money. While we pay higher and higher prices for less and less.

Now you are out of power, and you are crying like a baby, because you aren't getting your way or should I say your power base is not getting its way. Are they nad at you too? Are they disappointed in spending all that money on you?So you resort to irresponsible attacks on the new power base. You're just OK with Councilmen Gibbs is what your last post said.....who cares what you think?? You're OK with a cheat controlling the destiny of your family. You want to throw up the good family man line at each and every turn. How good a family man someone is does not mean he will be best for this community does it. You say that Van Haaster is a good family man, but that didn't protect us, because he put his families finances above the finances of our city. I want a man who is not only a good family man but a good listener and not high and mighty. I want a good family man that when making decisions about our community wants to help all the other good family men not just his family. But we can see what youre about. You may very well be a GREAT family man, but don't disagree with you or you'll turn your back on us. Unless we voted for you in the recall to continue on, you dont care about us. We are all your employers here. You are paid to serve all of us. And yes, you are a public SERVANT. We see that your purpose here is destroy Enochs and if Ostling and Gibbs vote with him, them too. Your purpose is to get your stated FRIENDS back on the Council so you can have fun again belittling and brushing aside the regular guy standing up for this home. Well keep up the Enochs bashing, because it makes you look really crazy.

I read where your a good conservative boy and a God-fearing man, now I get the Rholmgren defense. Well it says to turn the other cheek, and revenge is for the weak. Haven't you read that and taken it to heart? Next election you will sit on the sideline and watch and we will elect a trainee to fill your shoes. We should just look for a good family man that sees ALL the members of this community as his constituates.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:15:00 AM
Participants who keep their entries to the point will get more attention. Some posts contain interesting points, but people have limited time to spend reading. I fully read the short posts, but just skim through the long ones. I want to read what everyone has to say, but keep it to the point, please!

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:23:00 AM
11:27 , Whatever tax preparation problems he may have are between him, his customers, and the IRS. Who cares about that? His illegal activity problems in this city are between him and us. From what KS says, JVH has never really been man enough to actually admit his guilt. He just says he's sort of sorry for "perceived" things he's been caught doing. Makes you wonder what he go away with on the sly that we never "perceived". This guy was our MAYOR? And now we have WE. What a pair. After those two we have nowhere to go but up. Little Mac is looking good by comparison.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 1:33:00 PM
Jeff,

I notice your quote of Dan McNeill stops just a little bit short, here’s the full one taken from the Press Enterprise, in bold is what you left off:

"It's very bad judgment on his part," said Dan McNeill, an editor with the Josephson Institute of Ethics. The Los Angeles-based nonprofit, nonpartisan organization strives to improve the ethical quality of society by advocating ethical decision-making.

McNeill said van Haaster has created a perception of impropriety. However, McNeill said that before critics rush to judgment, they should look at van Haaster's voting pattern, because it "sounds like he is doing what he always does," by voting for street improvements.

I guess it kind of waters down your point.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 4:51:00 PM
Good afternoon to everyone. Just stopped by the forum to see what the talk is all about these days. After glancing through a large number of posts, my impression is that the subject matter and comments have become (with a few important exceptions) mostly repetitive and superficial. The only reason I’m commenting about this is that I feel this wonderful new internet communication resource is not being used in a way that maximizes its potential to benefit our community.

I don’t know if this will help, but I’d like to make a suggestion. Most of us, I believe, take a few minutes every morning to see what’s happening in the local newspapers. Quite often, a news article mentions something about Murrieta schools, economic development, community events, and a wide array of other subjects that affect life in our community. Also quite often, a reader of a news article will know something more about the article subject than is being reported in the papers. I see this forum as an excellent opportunity for local news to be expanded on. Whether it be a tiny bit more information, an opinion, or even just a compliment to the efforts of a high school athlete in a sports article. And then, if someone wanted to expand on it, they could do so.

I see a great potential for good coming out of forums such as this one, and I think it’s just a matter of time before the potential starts being realized. Right now we are seeing the bumpy start of something that will eventually be very important to our community, our families, and each of us individually.

Thanks for taking a moment to read my post.

Tom Suttle

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 7:09:00 PM
Councilmen Seyarto,

I apologize for the stupid comment, it was uncalled for but I voiced my opinion. I do accept your answers and if I have not agreed with them, that is my right. I have the same right to state my disagreement on this blog and will continue to do so. Much of what you say has been alluding to things and to me that is not an answer. I don't apologize for saying your arrogant. You are. I have just tried to get you to see how childish I think, which is my right, your allegations and the in-house fighting you are part of has been. I think this community needs just the facts from you. Rumors are for us, not public servants. My opinion is my own.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:00:00 PM
MR. Faunce if you find my posts boring then go read something else and don't waste your time. I doubt that anyone would classify posts as exciting.It's too bad that a regular guy like me is unable to be interesting to a man with an attorney's keen intellect. I guess you operate in higher mental rarified air. As I see it many people want Murrieta to become a more exclusive higher income community with expensive housing. I prefer a more inclusive community where a wide variety of people and incomes can coexist. I cannot stand it when people develop the attitude of:" I've got mine and now I want to make it harder for others to get theirs." I believe that throwing up roadblocks to upward mobility are morally wrong. And in general RM or whoever they are today embraces that elitist agenda. Everyone should have opportunities in life. I hope that every parcel in Murrieta that is zoned multi family is developed as zoned; Especially those near Nutmeg and Washington. I also hope that we can build as many affordable housing units for both seniors and the working poor as possible. Maybe they should be clustered all along the Washington cooridor. Jeff please shorten your posts I want to read a blog not a book.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, August 21, 2005 10:59:00 PM
Answer this Kelly--- Did you know about the proposed vanHaaster daycare on Douglas Ave. when you voted for the Douglas Ave. road improvements?

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 12:25:00 AM
Agreeing with 7:09. Not much change in most entries and not much substance in things being repeated over and over. Word fights accomplish nothing.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 7:36:00 AM
7:36 again, one more thing: 7:09's suggestion about adding or commenting on daily news is also interesting. Maybe this blog can turn into more than just feathers flying in the hen house.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 7:41:00 AM
Rholmgren, I guess I didn't make my point clearly. What's boring is the continual Ad Hominem argumentation. "Ad Hominem" is a Latin phrase which means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).

So, for example, when you call someone a coward and use that label as a basis for rejecting an idea, it is a fallacious argument. Attorneys do it quite frequently, but judges hate it. They often remark how the animosity and name-calling does nothing to assist the Court in the resolution of the issue under consideration.

Similarly, when posting it's often easy to just "emote" without editing. All bloggers are well advised to stick to the issues. Make your point and give your authorities and arguments in support. Leave out the personal labels and the post is much more interesting.

Edward Faunce

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 7:56:00 AM
Geez Mr . Faunce. I understood Ad Hominem. You argue your way and I will argue my way. You don't have to read my posts if you don't want to. I am not try to be impolite here, but I am getting straight to the point.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 8:53:00 AM
Mr, Seyarto,
I have no need to make a post on here and disguise who I am. I have posted everything under my name. Arrogance comes in many forms and yours come this way, not wanting others opinions, just your opinion counts. So, no it wasn't me that never got a straight answer from you, someone else didn't feel it either.

Rholmgren,
Why would you want me to limit the size of my posts? Do what you told Mr. Faunce to do....don't read it if you don't want to.

Others,
Yes, see how Kelly wants to refocus away from Jack's unethical behavior. If this improvement was so important to our community, then why didn't it get done? The ethics isn't measured by financial benefit to Councilmen Seyarto but to the Ex-Mayor, you know, the guy he'd trust with the future of his family.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 5:36:00 PM
Hey Jeff it was a sarcastic joke. Write as much as you want.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 6:09:00 PM
Jeff,
Keep up those long posts. You are asking questions we have all thought about. I for one don't agree with everything you say but the answers the councilmen is giving has changed my thoughts and my future vote. As a matter of fact my neighbors and I went to breakfast Sunday and your posts were talked about and many minds have changed allegence.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 7:46:00 PM
7:46 Do really think that breakfast story sounds credible? I think your group already made up their minds and allegences long ago. Does anyone in your group want to buy a 2 bedroom 1 bath house on a 6000 square foot lot in Murrieta for 2 million? I just thought I would ask. If you believe Jeff then I guess you would be gullible enough to make an offer on the house.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 9:59:00 PM
Did the city own that portion of Douglas Ave. or was it privately owned by the owners on either side of Douglas at the time of the vote? Did the city vote to pave a private portion of road? Did the city pay the citizens of Murrieta for the portion of Adams closed between Juniper and B Street? How does this help traffic circulation in Old Town Murrieta?

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 10:16:00 PM
Jeff: The breakfast post is a crock. And what's with this knocking Anons thing??? Only a couple people in this whole blog use their whole names. You think some generic name like "Jeff" is better than "Anon"? What a joke. There's only about a zillion Jeff's in the world. "Jeff" might as well be another word for "Anon". But don't worry about using your last name, Jeff. No one really cares what it is. By any other name, you're just another Anon to us. If you have an interesting thought, it will be just as interesting whether you stick a name on it or not.

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 10:23:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
To argue back and forth with you on who is rude and who is not is as worthless as Mr. Faunce mentioned above. I truly believe you don't get it. This string is not the tip of the iceberg of the attitude that I heard during City Council meetings over the last year. You have alluded many times how either I or others that have the same opinions are that we just don't get it. I will never change your opinions, but like the above post mentioned, maybe I am opening some eyes to the tactics of our City Council that must be changed. If I am the one that you think is rude and nasty, who was that Councilmen I saw at the meetings. But that is here nor there now. I too want to keep this city on an even playing field as well and with Developers throwing hundreds of thousands of dollars around on a certain portion of the Council, how can that be level? I showed you respect when I apologized for the uncalled for stupid comment. But I have disagreed and you have continually said I don't get it. But I do get and have called you out on some of the far out accusations I heard. I didn't say these things, you did. You are also held to a higher standard then I, as your opinions direct our community. I believe that you still don't get the fact that you work for me and all Murrieta residents. It's not being subserviant, it's a fact. What you decide ends up our issues. I have mentioned so many times that I am not perfect, but then I'm not serving this community, you are. I only deserve you to do your best and I finally saw a line in your last post talking about a traffic light. Thats what the articles in the Valley News should be about, because every resident will stand behind those issues. The Mayor's unethical issues are your opinions and as you are a public servant have no place in a public forum. So, tell me what's wrong with a resident asking you over and over to tell us about your ideas and improvements and asking you to compare them to the Mayor's ideas? I have mentioned that over and over, yet no reply. That question isn't demeaning, it isn't belittling, it's straightforward.

Again you said "supposed" unethical behavior. And again I call out that anything you have mentioned about the Mayor is just as "supposed" as Jack's. Although Jack admitted his in an apology. So I guess his isn't so supposed.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Monday, August 22, 2005 10:52:00 PM
Compliments to Kelly Seyarto for his infinite patience in reading and responding to the wordy poster. There are plenty of readers here who would not blame you if you stopped responding to him, because his desire to repetitiously run on and on exceeds anything anyone cares to read. If your responses have been inadequate to him or to anyone else, that's just the way it is. Enough already.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:20:00 AM
Mr. Seyarto: I was just adding up all of the recent road funding news and when it is added together it adds up to government irresosibility. First Riverside County was grossly short changed by the once every six year highway bill. Secondly 170 million dollars in TUMF fees has been collected by the county and supposedly none has been spent yet. Thirdly the county is considering another addition to the TUMF fee in order to expand the 215. Lastly the Highway 74 project is way over budget and will be a year late in completion.
And on top of all this the state of California continues to steal money from the highway fund to pay for social programs.When taken all together it looks like a continued downward spiral in traffic conditions. I think you are on a few committees that deal with the TUMF. Where is the TUMF money going and how soon are any projects going to get started? Is there any reason to believe that Federal officials looked at the TUMF fund and and used its existence to justify their inadequate highway funding? How large of an increase is being requested for the 215 project?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 4:23:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,

I really liked that answer, that's the kind of information we need.

To 11:20, it seems the theme is to talk about the length of my posts which is not at all surprising. This is how the Developers push back at opposition. I found out first hand today when I found out through these posts that someone had connected me with my development asking where I live. That's why I have been so wordy, because the people that spend so much money don't want to hear real people oppose them. It's just how the world works, but I will not back down from the backers of the Van Haaster's of the area. Each post except Mike's have not commented on the content only the length. If you are worried about the length as Rholmgren said, don't read it. Half this community agree with my thinking and the more divided this council gets with in-fighting that number will grow.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:57:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto I also had a question about the concrete plant on Jackson. Does the city want it to relocate or shut it down. Concrete prices are already sky high and less competition and supply in the area would be a concern. If concrete suppliers are forced to fringe areas, then customers are going to pay for higher tranportation costs. There must still be some area(s) within the city limits where cement plants like these can operate. An area close to new development would be preferable.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 7:38:00 PM
If anyone disagrees with the proposition that Jeff is certifiable, please say so.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:02:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,

Speaking of road improvements, I really haven’t been keeping up, but Cal Oaks and the 15 is a nightmare. I know they’re trying to ease the traffic with the new construction and improvements have been delayed because of state budgets, they really do need to make everything a right turn onto the freeway.

But at what point will this improve into a cloverleaf on-ramp that is planned? I’m pretty naive on the political process, but what roll does CalTrans play here when deciding when to improve this freeway on-ramp and what control does the city have over this intersection? It’s just pretty frustrating to me when this on-ramp on Cal Oaks to I-15 has been here for over a decade, and yes I live in this area, it has yet to be improved. I would have thought the state would take into consideration our status as one of the fastest growing cities in the state for priorities in statewide improvements.

Another intersection is, Clinton Keith and the 215, from what I remember from a council meeting months ago is that the new project was approved for the Orchard (I think that’s still the name) in which they have given or are going to give land and millions of dollars to improve that intersection (correct me if I’m wrong). At which point does the city start using this money for improvements and once again when does CalTrans have a date to improve this area and does the city have the ability to negotiate with them by using the money that was given us for the improvement of that intersection to let them know we’ll help pay for the improvements, can that push the timeline up? I just don’t want to see us in the bind that we are now in at I-15 and Cal Oaks.

By the way long answers are just fine with me.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 9:17:00 PM
Rholmgren and Kelly,
Rholmgren is suddenly feeding very nice lop pitches into Seyarto, as if this was batting practice. Where is the sharp tongue Rholmgren? And you two don't know each other......just like Van Haaster isn't going to run again. Here's the pitch.....bam and Kelly hits another home run....I smell set-up. Kelly, truthfully I was driving Enochs around at 3am pulling up signs and my garage is wallpapered with them. Ladies and Gents, you are seeing the beginning of the Van Haaster agenda at work.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 10:09:00 PM
This is 8:02 again... Just here to say the invitation is still open... Anyone?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 10:34:00 PM
You know, I like to read all the posts on here and whether I agree or not, they all have truth to them. I can't say Jeff is wrong. He brings out many interesting points and Mr. Seyarto was coming off the wall with certain accusations.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:01:00 PM
Most of us who supported the recall already know about the builder's new focus on bringing back JVH. Jeff isn't that smart to tell us what we already know. But I like that he's showing KS some spunk and giving it back to him. That's something different around here. Be calm Jeff, don't lose sleep over this. KS is on borrowed time and his day will come. Rescue Murrieta still lives in all our hearts. Jeff, where were you when we needed you?

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:07:00 PM
Jeff I save the sharp tougue for conspiracy theorists and RM truth twisters. SHould I do as you do and rephrase my questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over or should I just accept an intelligent answer? Jeff I I hve no social involvement with any council member. I have no idea what JVH is up to.I just admire people who have integrity and guts. I also dislike the hidden agendas that groups like RM represent.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:11:00 AM
Kelly Seyarto-- I am still awaiting your answer on dirt roads in the city of Murrieta. Did you find out if Douglas was owned privately or did the city take possession at an earlier date before the vote to pave? Will the city eventually take possession of all dirt roads and maintain them?

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:17:00 AM
I thank Jeff for his hard-hitting persistant attitude. KS didn't have very many true friends in this town, but he had lots of surface level supporters who did not really know him. People now are starting to know him better, and when they do they understand that KS is not their friend. The only person KS really cares about is KS. The political world of Kelly Seyarto is not yet a lonely place, but it is getting there.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 8:58:00 AM
8:58 is another RM groupie. They will do or say anything to tear KS down. The truth is not important to them. They try to change perceptions with half truths.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:48:00 AM
8:58 is WRONG!!! Kelly has dear, dear friends in the development community. He will never let them down, and they will never let him down. True love. When it comes time for a vote, the developers just say, Give me a little KS.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:57:00 AM
1057: OMG! Too good! I needed a laugh this morning. This one could go on, If a builder can't get a KS, he runs to Sue, and then Kelly crys and throws a tantrum.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:05:00 PM
8:58 - Right on target.

12:05 - Keep your day job. Good enough for a smile, but don't try to follow a class act.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:23:00 PM
10:57,
That is the perfect answer. He has dear friends in the development community. YES, WE KNOW THAT. That's a problem when he's the one making decisions for this dear friends. If that isn't a supportive comment to the JVH agenda and to the fact that this is why you developers spent so much to keep him around. True love...and give us a little KS. That's the exact response developers have when you ask them why spend a half a million dollars on a City Council election. Are the rest of you all not seeing this?
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:37:00 PM
Rholmgren,
I asked the same questions because the answers in my opinion were not answered intelligently. To say that the behavior of Enochs is unethical and illegal, you would figure that Kelly was going to tell us about underhanded deals or hirings or money deals. But the intelligent answers were Enochs was driving around with one license plate, or his kid was driving with no license or his square footage wasn't precise, and EVEN that he was driving around at 3 am destroying signs. If you find that an intelligent answer then what can I say. I asked many times to do what all of a sudden he's doing in rapid succession within a few hours with you after asking him for two weeks. To tell us his plans and ideas.....kind of setup questions from you and Mike, don't you think? Like it was planned or something, but what do I know? I'm naive. I asked because Mr. Seyarto added things as we went along and I pulled even more INTELLIGENT comments out. Thats why I asked over and over because new information keeps spewing out. Like the Black truck at 3 am stuff. I got partial answers, like well a room addition and then it was a square footage problem. The same question yes but the information grew each time and now the right people are hearing exactly what he has written and time will tell what gets done.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:48:00 PM
Some day when I grow up I wannabe just like Jeff.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:04:00 PM
2:04 - If those are the words of a little mind in a grownup body, just accept who you are.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:04:00 PM
NEWS FLASH... NEWS FLASH... NEWS FLASH

The AP is reporting that the same developer who saw the black truck at 3 AM in Murrieta has now seen black helicopters hovering outside his bedroom window. He's pretty sure Warnie Enochs was at the controls of one of them.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:17:00 PM
Sorry its lob....underhand.....if your from chicago it's with a 16" softball...barehanded. But just think of the style questions and when they were asked and the rapid fire way they came and you will understand the meaning.......these are also not my friends....but your community residents.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:17:00 PM
we finally have someone here asking the question we have all been wondering about. why did all the people from outside our community with money invest it in those three councilmen. it all makes sense. makes you really think what we dont know and how many in this community dont think about it. unless they read this post they dont know. jeff's views on the war suck as he is a liberal sob but i think he hit the mark on whats happening in our council and what the future holds in the next election. mike are you and rhlmgn involved with developers.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:41:00 PM
Anon 4:41,

No I don’t have anything to do with developers, but I guess since I don’t subscribe to your point of view I’ll get labeled as being in the pockets of developers, but…hey…that seems to be a popular label in this city.

Jeff, nope not throwing K.S. easy questions, I honestly what to know what the progress is on those freeway intersections and I have to drive through them almost on a daily basis since I live in this area and don’t have an alternate route to avoid that traffic nightmare. Jeff you seem to be stuck on the infighting on the council, for me the subject is getting old, I just wanted to talk about city issues, so you’ll have to excuse me for “throwing out lobs” maybe you knew the answer, I didn’t.

Mike

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:24:00 PM
Kelly,
There is the disrespect that you pointed at me coming out in your posts again Mr. Councilman. Again you allude to illegal things that people (BEING ME) do just as you did about Enochs if it serves your purpose and protects your unethical friends. I have never taken a drug or smoked but you want people to think that anyone who has a differing opinion is a drug addict. THERES THE INTELLIGENT COMMENTS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT RHOLMGREN. Wrong again Mr. Seyarto. But please keep talking and digging deeper and deeper that hole. Don't you have a Developer's love fest to attend? Now do you and Dougie have a special re-election bank account to put money donations into? Hey, Kelly, a BIG black truck just sped by. I'll just bet it's going to do something illegal and unethical.

You have history to create and you can turn all the misfortune of the recall around and make this City Council special. But, that wouldn't look good either would it? If really good things came out of the meetings. Then it would look like Enochs, Gibbs and Ostling were getting beneficial things done. JVH and your loving developers wouldnt want that, now would they? Go waste another vote to make a point and prove the Mayor wrong. That's why your in the City Council.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:25:00 PM
KS swings below the belt every chance he gets. A man who accuses opponents of drug use in latest blog entry, and has a long history of speaking and writing a variety of such lies and filth about everyone he dislikes. A man whose nose is parked firmly in the exhaust pipe of a rich contractor’s lexus, and whose followers are bent down in a similar manner directly to his rear. A man who is at his core a third rate thug, an elected Gotti style figure, out for vengeful retaliation against those who he perceives to be his enemies, and who says
/we’ll see who has all the belly laughs in the end./
In the end, he says. And just what kind of terminal point does a mind such as this define as
/the end/ ?
He shows every warning sign of a dangerous personality. On the surface, he’s like the guy next door. Good job. Nice family man. But not the kind of person you would want to meet alone on a dark street, unless it was to discuss an apartment deal. Most definitely not the kind of person you’d want to leave in charge of a day care center.
People like this have a place in our world. A place where they can be watched, very carefully. But until then, we must do the job.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:29:00 PM
Mike,
Sorry to keep posting on here in rapid succession. I don't know the answers, thats why I want the in-fighting to stop. I asked the Councilmen to stop and do his job many times, but that wasn't his purpose in previous posts by him. The posts were made by him to continue the in-fighting and make the Mayor look bad. Making the Mayor look bad is the hope of the JVH agenda so he would not be re-elected and JVH can get back in. There is a purpose to Seyarto right now and it's to make the power threesome appear incompetent. But, if you say you were not in his plan then it must be so. I too want ideas to come from him and solutions to our problems and things that build this community up. Thats why he makes the big bucks.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:32:00 PM
Jeff or anyone else: Can you name one positive action that Mayor Enochs has done on behalf of Murrieta over the last 10 years? I am not talking about his "stick the finger in the air" voting record. I want to know if there are any projects that he spearheaded or organizations that he belonged to that led to a constructive tangible result in our community. Is he more than just a council no man and a roadblock? Is he more than just a toxic social troublemaker? Does he DO more than just show up for social events and stick his finger in the air and vote which ever way the political wind is blowing during council meetings? Is W.E. involved enough regionally and does he have any working relationships with the movers and shakers or is he a solo show? It is easy to make a target of KS when he sticks his neck out in the community so many different ways. I just do not see much action or involvement from W.E.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:11:00 PM
Kelly,
You may be a fireman and thats all great and good and we are proud of you, but on here.....who cares. We look to you as our Councilmen. And when you go and say things in the same manner that you accuse any other person or the Mayor, it becomes misleading. It just wasnt me was it.

Didn't you read the post by the developer on here? How would it be if there were fires all over by your firehouse and arsonists were saying what a nice firemen one of the firefighters in your house was and writng letters to support him for fireman of the year. You'd say there is something fishy going on. You arent suppose to have close relationships with developers. It all comes down to perceptions. This city needs to cultivate a great perception and one that we are tough with developers but fair. But the appearance is that we are in bed with them, at least two of you. This is not held by just me, but by many on here and from the recall vote at least 48%. I didn't ask to have them come on here and make comments, someone else did and what Im hearing from a majority is that your perception isnt good. Thats not good in the world of negotiation. To me the perception is youre a push over for a vote if you are offered backing and support. This comment isnt an attack on you, its the truth. You are the only one that can change perceptions. But instead you defend your perception and fight those who have it about you as "crazy" or "lost their mind". But its you I feel that is grasping, as what politician would come on a blog and strengthen a very poor perception about himself. Instead of doing what you did in the last couple of posts you came on here and made flamatory statements. You attacked critics. Instead of stating that the Mayor has bad ideas or goals and here are your great goals you attacked him with license plate stuff. Come on. Im not attacking you but stating the facts of why the perception of you is the way it is. I really down deep think you do really well on these outside projects, but have gotten so involved in protecting and defending Jack and the developers that it is all your about now. You vote to show revenge. Thats not good judgment. And I think my neighbors and I want Councilmen who have good judgment and are not caught in the middle. I would realy have liked for you to get on here and said...Jeff, I told the developers that I would fight the recall with my own resources not yours and that it was biased to be so strong a proponent for developers that the money would look tainted. You do look tainted no matter how good you are on these outside project teams. McAlister got the same support by the developer building at Nutmeg and Jackson and McAlister ended up looking like a crook taking the money. Its all about perception. You created the bad perceptions and easily fell into the traps of commenting in defense of the perceptions. Now you have many many people in this community who would rather see inexperience in your place rather then...you. I don't believe that your as bad as that one post says, but i dont know you personally. I do know that you do attack those that disagree instead of asking why they feel the way they do and caring that they have that perception.

So you want to wait, just like you wanted to show us what would happen during the recall......didnt you say something like " bring it on". Well we did, and I am the one laughing.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:29:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Good basic question about Enochs. Actually there is only one thing he might ever be remembered for, and that is sticking it out as a protest vote until the trio was dismantled. In the minds of a lot of people, that was an accomplishment. His life on the council was ONLY that of a protest vote, and that is the ONLY reason a lot of people voted for him. But no, there's not even one other thing. WE's job is now done, but unfortunately he's something we're all stuck with for a while. Part of the unfortunate lasting legacy of JVH. Yes, we have JVH to thank for the fact that WE is now our mayor. Such irony. Shakespeare said, "The evil that men do lives after them."

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:33:00 PM
Rholmgren,
It's hard to get things done when you are on the opposite side of a block of votes. I agree that Kelly does well on other projects away from the developer aspect but his "holier then thou" attitude just doesn't cut it. I dont know WE because he doesnt come on blogs. Kelly is learning the mistake the hard way and you see the reaction. He's going to disappear because he cannot take the criticism unless he can belittle it. It is overwhelming the last few days. That may change if he makes a few phone calls and his friends post on here or developers get on here and start posting to sway things, but the initial reaction doesnt appear good.

WE has had just a couple months with the voting block switched his way and I see that he is standing up to the pressure of that one developer and saying....NO. We should have said many NO's over the last few years. Thats the first step to our improvement....not being steamrolled.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:36:00 PM
Amazingly frail attempt by Seyarto to backtrack on his clear accusation that anyone who opposses him is using illegal drugs. Is it any surprise that he puts the blame on his work environment. It's the influence of those bad firemen. They made me do it, he says, with the way they talk around the firehouse. Please. Your prior post puts the lie to your assertion. Being a hero or even just a man is not as simple putting your name on your blogs, Mr. Seyarto. It is telling the truth, and acknowledging the kind of person you really are. And please, don't insult the intelligence of everyone in this town by saying you already do.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:37:00 PM
APPALLING.

The Mayor Pro Tem of Murrieta, Kelly Seyarto, spent last night trying to explain away the fact that he accused those he disagrees with as drug users, and the fact that he made a veiled threat. And in the same statement, he makes a pathetic joke of the fact that there are people who have the common sense to keep him from knowing their names by posting entries anonymously. This is a man who slanders people, threatens them, and then, after he has committed his crime, he attempts to dress himself up and walk away from what he just did, and as he does, he turns around and throws another insult at his victim.

Mr. Mayor Pro Tem Kelly Seyarto, HAVE YOU NO SHAME?

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:54:00 AM
KS has treated people in this town like garbage for years except big developers from orange county. Some of you are acting like this is news but its nothing new. If you didn't vote against him you deserve him.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:18:00 AM
It is just as I thought W.E is/was just a protest vote. No vision No leadership No imagination. All of you anon wimps are getting just what you deserve. Maybe you are not drug users, but you definitely have a delusional psychosis of some type. Go visit your doctor and get treated!

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:05:00 AM
I am a member of an informal local political discussion group which makes a few comments from time to time in this blog. A few of the recent comments about Councilman Seyarto came from this group. I represent an opposing view to those which have been stated. Mr. Seyarto is indeed an opinionated public figure, but he is a good citizen who is doing what he can to help this community. He sometimes uses phrases and words which can be taken two different ways. His opponents tend to take those words, and magnify and distort them to make their own points. It is my hope that Mr. Seyarto will use these verbal exchanges to sharpen his own skills in dealing with his opponents. In fact, I think he is already doing so. And I hope Mr. Seyarto will continue to serve the City of Murrieta with distinction, as he has done so very well for so many years.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:14:00 AM
8:14,
Would I be wrong in thinking that you are a right leaning conservative group?

Rholmgren,
Isn't hard to defend Seyarto without attacking his critics? Kind of reminds me of the same thing you having going in trying to defend the President.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:06:00 AM
8:14,
Thinking more about your comment on the way Mr. Seyarto expresses himself. It really isn't his choice of words. I knew what he meant when he talked about the smoking dope comment. It's his "look down his nose" comments. It's the arrogant attitude, that he knows best and he knows everything and all the rest of us should just deal with his decisions. Many of the comments he has made on here, as a public servant, not a citizen, are pretty serious and somewhat off the wall. They are not what you'd expect and it isn't just a word taken and twisted. If he alludes to the fact that the Mayor is driving around at 3am in his black truck destroying signs, there isn't a word in there that can be twisted. If he talks about unethical and illegal activity by the Mayor and then brings up his license plates and his kid driving without a license that shows stupiity on the part of the Mayor more then anything unethical. I mean would we do a DMV search and find that Kelly has a traffic ticket or parking ticket and call him unethical. No we'd say he did something we all have done. Thats the disconnect in your statement. I wanted to push my point that he is arrogant when dealing with opposing views on the smoking dope issue. Mr. Seyarto may be a good citizen but that doesn't mean he is a good City Councilmen. Like I said, he has rubbed many people the wrong way and you'll see that with all the posts over the last 30.
Jeff

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:12:00 PM
Jeff... I am "8:14", and to answer your question: No, the political discussion group I'm part of is not right wing conservative.

Several of the most negative sounding comments in this forum over the past couple of days came from members of this informal group, and those comments were not from conservatives. And yet, yes, I myself am a conservative Republican.

We're a mixed bag of "old timers", long acquainted, some with a bit of political experience, but certainly not all "allies" in the political sense of the word.

Do we ever change our minds or influence one another? Sure we do. We listen to one another, just as we listen to others. People cannot help influencing one another if they interact. And in the same way, when I read your posts, your thoughts affect mine. And they do so most effectively when they are delivered in a diplomatic fashion.

I have not always agreed on every matter with Mr. Seyarto. No one is perfect. But I have usually been, and am now, a political supporter. Like most of the other politicians I support, I've never met this Councilman, and don't have any plans or need to do so.

Anyway, I enjoy reading your posts and those of most other participants. I think this is a wonderful way to air political differences.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:15:00 PM
I take exception to our conservative friend’s description of our group as “old timers”. Some of us barely qualify for the senior discount at the movie theater. You might see us sharing our friend’s computer in a coffee shop in Murrieta or Temecula, but not in a retirement home. We agree on few things, but what we have agreed on is that our political arguments will speak for themselves. Our words are our only identity in this particular setting, although some of you would recognize a couple of our names if we said them. Before I sign off, I want to emphasize that our friend who likes Mr. Seyarto is in a very small minority in our group. Very small indeed. It is a fault in him we look beyond.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:34:00 PM
Anon 7:34 I took the “old timers” comment to mean the years you all have live in the city not in your age as a person.

From the comments that the two of you have made it sounds like you have nice group that can disagree on political views and yet get along with each other.

By Anonymous, at Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:08:00 PM

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