World news
I read in the comments that at least one of you guys out there would like to debate world issues here, if so, let me know and I will do just that.
In the meantime, Pres. Bush had stated that he would fire anyone in his administration found to have leaked the identity of a covert CIA agent's name. He has since qualified that statement by saying that he would fire any member of his cabinet found in the investigation of the leak who has commited a crime. Carl Rove, his faithful sidekick, has been implicated by Matthew Cooper of Time magazine.
Two interpretations,
1. Bush is confident in his ability to suppress any findings of a federal investigation (see 9-11 commission).
2. The investigation will eventually determine that there is insufficient evidence to charge anyone due to the Bush administration's willingness to exercise the executive privelege whenever the hound get too close.
A Bush without a Rove would be a shadow of his former self.
In the meantime, Pres. Bush had stated that he would fire anyone in his administration found to have leaked the identity of a covert CIA agent's name. He has since qualified that statement by saying that he would fire any member of his cabinet found in the investigation of the leak who has commited a crime. Carl Rove, his faithful sidekick, has been implicated by Matthew Cooper of Time magazine.
Two interpretations,
1. Bush is confident in his ability to suppress any findings of a federal investigation (see 9-11 commission).
2. The investigation will eventually determine that there is insufficient evidence to charge anyone due to the Bush administration's willingness to exercise the executive privelege whenever the hound get too close.
A Bush without a Rove would be a shadow of his former self.
posted by J. L. Kunkle at
Monday, July 18, 2005
86 Comments:
How many times do we let this President mislead us? Each time he has not been clear in his response to his errors, always blaming and pointing the finger at someone else. Who said the buck stops here? So far we have statements that have said to us that Osama Bin Ladin and Hussian were linked and that the War on Terrorists is the same as the War in Iraq. He continues to link the two. He told us we were in danger of Iraq and their WMD's. How many times did he and Fox News mention the phrase "WMD"? Now they blame everyone else, Britian, France, Germany, Clinton for deciding through prior intelligence that Iraq had these weapons. Do we as American citizens really want our boys fighting against insurgents, dying daily. Do we want to spend 300 BILLION dollars on rebuilding another country when we can't properly take care of our own? Look at protecting our borders, healthcare, social secruity, our roads and infrastructure. Who out there would not want that money spent on healthcare, education and safety here? And the latest of G.W. 's misleading escapades. Do any of you think for a second that Bush doesn't know exactly what Rove did and said? Would your boss not question you and demand answers from you about your conduct at work? Would he not personally investigate it if you put fellow employees at risk? Of course he knows all that happened, he's had two years to discover all of this. If Rove lied to Him then he should already be gone just like you or I would be at our jobs. If he knows the truth, he again has misled all of us in another scandal and again he and his friends point fingers at everyone else. Democrats are at fault. I qualify all I say above to those who will read this and write that I'm a bleeding heart Bush hater, when actually I am an Independant who's last vote was cast for Bush. One mistake I accept but when they go on and on, I call a liar a liar.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:58:00 PM
The question is, would Karl Rove let Bush fire him? Bush has the bluster, but Rove is the brains of that outfit.
By
J. L. Kunkle, at Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:03:00 PM
Rove can do the exact same job from an office in Texas or across the street from the White House can't he? Do you think if he gets fired that he won't contribute the exact same rhetoric to the President and all Republicans. Does anyone think they will check the President's phone log? All that can't happen is Rove getting a check from the government. There are many Republicans in the county of Riverside who would send him a paycheck. If not Cunningham down in Oceanside might have some extra cash. Like you said in your first comment, Bush does not have the brains to run the party ideology by himself. The only thing the firing would portray is further dishonesty in the White House. Who would explain to Bush what WMD means?
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, July 20, 2005 7:18:00 PM
I guess this is the delusional liberal string. Are you cowards willing to die for your country? How do you negotiate with people who are determined to kill you?Calling out Bush as a liar has become stale and old. Can you think of something more original? The WMD arguement has also been retreaded for a couple of years now. There were other reasons for a war right? Was Saddam financially supporting terrorists?
Was he sending $25,000 to the families of Palistinian suicide bombers? I do believe there were also terrorist training camps in Iraq. Any other country that does the same should also be taken out.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:49:00 AM
Rholmgren,
You dare call me a coward. You know nothing about me. Where were you in 1969????? You weren't next to me on Hill 37 and Hill 55 outside of DaNang. Did you watch your buddies die next to you? If the answer is yes, then you have earned the right to say anything to me. If not, well, just go off. Isn't this the same logic the President uses. When you cannot answer, attack the source by calling names and making things up. I fought for my country with the 3rd Battalion of the 1st Marine Division and then stayed here when I was discharged. I earned my rights. I would gladly fax copies of my discharge papers, but when you get them you need to stand on a street corner with a sign saying your a coward for questioning anything that differs from your idelology. I don't care how much money he sent to Palestinian suicide bombers. And I don't care if he had terrorists training camps in his backyard. If that was the reason then we should be attacking Iran, Syria, Niger and perhaps another twenty countries. Go turn on Fox News and keep getting stroked. Like I said, I voted Republican and our President is as big a liar as Nixon. What other talking points has Rush, Sean, Bill and the boys taught you. I have no one leading me, just my heart and mind. Let's bring my brothern home and protect the homeland. So tell me your service to the land I love? Oh, delusional? My delusions are from my missing fingers on my left hand. Some delusions right? Oh and Bush cut our medical benefits this year.......thanks for your support bud.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:28:00 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen... Let me interupt the serious discussion for a moment with some lighter news: Guess who Murrieta's newest millionaire is? Well, according to a confidential source of mine, Warnie E. just (today) put a property he owns into escrow in Murrieta for enough cash to allow him to sail off into the sunset. That's all I know. At this point it's just hearsay, but it comes from someone I've learned to rely on for good info in the real estate biz. The question this raises of course: Assuming escrow closes successfully, will Warnie stick around town?
JLM
By
Anonymous, at Friday, July 22, 2005 11:22:00 AM
1028: Im not part of this discussion up to now, but just wanted to say thanks for your service. I was in the army at the time, but had it easy next to what you went thru. I may not agree with you in some political ways, but Im proud to know youre a neighbor in town.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, July 22, 2005 2:14:00 PM
Thank you 2:14. I don't want people to have to agree with any political view I have. I just want a voice and to not be called a coward if I do my duty of challenging my President and this administration. I am one of the troops as I still am under the benefit umbrella. So thank you for supporting my right to speak freely as that is what I fought for. Thank you for serving with me. In 1969 I too thought people who didn't support the war effort were not right, however, I saw that when we pulled out after the killings ended and in the 30+ years since, that I don't know what we were fighting for, do you? What has happened over there that is so wrong since. How were they a danger to me today or then? They weren't and aren't. The Government used fear, just as today to scare the people into hatred and then put a patriotic theme behind it. Should we have gone after the terrorists in Afganistan? YES. Should we go after Asama Bin Laden....YES. I just don't want to be misled as I was in Vietnam. I don't want someone to tell me, like they did then that something is coming to get me when it really isn't. We have the strongest military in the world. Our nation will never be attacted my another countries military. What we need to be doing is protecting our borders, our docks, our airports. We don't need any more bombers, tanks and artillery. We need more intelligence, more police, more security here. Yes, we have to protect our Allies (do we have any left), and our resource interests. But are we spending enough on our own oil, and yes I am for drilling in our own areas. What are we doing cleaning up Iraq's mess. If the people hated Saddam they should have stood up to him. There are millions of them. Just like we did in the revolutionary war and the civil war. Now all they have is a civil war with us and our boys stuck in the middle. But it is a war that can't be won. It's not two armies slugging it out anymore, its snipers and suicide bombers. You can't protect yourself from them and they can be anybody. We should call it what it is a war of religions and ideologies, the Islamic people against each other and them against the Western culture. So I respect everybodies opinion and the right to have them. That's why we are free. I wish more people had an opinion and less a prepared ideology using Fox News talking points to live there life by.
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Anonymous, at Friday, July 22, 2005 4:43:00 PM
4:43 You've laid your life on the line for your country. You have every right to take whatever stand you choose. Your right to make that choice was paid for by your blood, and by the life of someone very near to me. The fact that we may come down on different sides of the same question, will never mean that I don't understand the terrible struggle between ideals and duty that lead to differnt conclusions. Some questions have no answers. Some wounds never heal. 2:14
By
Anonymous, at Friday, July 22, 2005 5:20:00 PM
Sorry 4:43 but I do not watch Fox news much and I only sporadically listen to talk radio. I tend to read my news. I never thought that 30 second news reports ever did a story justice. I love the way you tried to over shadow your cowardly position by injecting the fact that you served in Vietnam. You were brave to serve then, and I commend you for it. That was in the past. Today your positions on the war are cowardly and your writings have isolationist leanings. I would much prefer that the majority of the world's battlefields are overseas if that means we can enjoy a safer homefront. The only mistake that was made in Vietnam was that we didn't go in there with all guns blazing. We fought like we had one hand tied behind our back. We should have won that war and beat back the communists. Hopefully we will stay in Iraq and finish what we started because that is what life's winners do. I am sure that people like you would love it if this war caught the same disillusionment infection that destroyed our resolve in Vietnam. Replublicans like me are holding steadfast. Faux Republicans like you are not needed in our party. Go join the so-called progressives. You sound more like them than us.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:21:00 AM
10:21 - Pinko communist scum. You a clearly not a Republican if you claim to be one and then spout off with rehtoric that is clearly designed to be humiliating to whatever cause you claim to be part of. If you mingle among true Republicans, let all be aware that a kind of terrorist is present. By your very words, you do serious damage to whatever cause you claim to affiliate yourself with, blowing up your own reputation in the process, but like any fanatic not really caring about who or what you are destroying, even if it includes yourself. You are a disgrace to yourself, and to whatever system of misguided thought you are truly part of. If you think you are actually a Republican, heaven help us all.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:33:00 AM
Look, look everyone! The right wing loonies are starting to consume each other!
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 23, 2005 3:23:00 PM
11:33 are you mentally challenged?Your comments are so whacked that I have no logical response to you.
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 23, 2005 4:34:00 PM
11:33 has the same cut and run philosophy that infected post Vietnam anti war whackos. When the the going gets rough they take the easy way out and fold. You must be a bad Poker player. The only Commie in this string is you.Look in the mirror. Are you separated at birth from Hanoi Jane? You two sure share alot in political common.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 24, 2005 1:51:00 PM
Rholmgren,
This is my third post on here. I don't call people names for what they believe. I have my views and you have yours however, my action included service in the name of my country. Tell me about your service. I never said I was a Republican. I have no ideology that dictates my life. I voted my head and heart. My conservative rhetoric about fighting and winners. I don't think the British believe that fighting in Iraq keeps them safe. I don't think the Iraq insurgents are flying to the US to attack us. So now that you have again challenged my cowardly views, tell me how you have served your country in action. I don't hide behind being a Vietnam Vet. I am proud to serve when called. I want to hear how brave you have been and what experience you are basing any of your bravery while others die. So 11:33 wasn't me....I don't stoop to calling names. I only proudly and freely express my views. Go listen to Rush and Sean and boycott the Dixie Chicks and let the men talk.
J
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:44:00 PM
Serving in the military is one of many honorable ways of serving our country. I absolutely do not think that it gives one expert authority on whether the war is right or wrong. It is hardly a qualifyer as to whether one is right or wrong. Did Clinton serve? He commanded the military for 8 years. I am sure that his opinion mattered to you. It is sad that you have no ideology that dictates your life. What an empty existance. You are right that insurgents( mostly non Iraqi terrorists) are not flying here to the U.S. I said earlier in this string that it is better that the war is fought overseas. It is better that terrorists are shooting at our professional killers there rather than ordinary citizens here. If you cannot handle a little heat when it comes to labeling then maybe you need a thicker skin. Stoop a little J and get your hands dirty. There is a lot at stake in Iraq and it would be stupidity to quit before we finish. Before you demand that we pull out Iraq maybe you should: Demand that we leave Germany and Japan( WW2 been over for 60 years)Or how about bringing our troops home from Korea.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 24, 2005 8:59:00 PM
Rholmgren,
Again, how can someone who has never stooped and got their hands dirty tell me to. I don't follow an ideology like a sheep and repeat it's talking points. I am man enough to think on my own and decide issues like a man and like a man I am not always right. I have taken so much heat in my life that you have no clue and how old are you? You keep bringing up the talking point of Bush's that the war is staying over in Iraq. We just saw two instances where it didn't in Britian. Why aren't we putting an extreme effort to find the source, Bin Laden. We will eventually get him but not until he has created a giant that we will never be able to stop. We have given him an extra 4 years now. You're right about one thing. We will stay the course like Korea and be in Iraq forever. And every year, a son or brother of one of these insurgents will grow of age and will avenge a death and one of our brave soliders will die. Being in the military doesn't make me an expert, but watching world events for almost 60 years does improve my ability to decide. The insurgents will never fly to america and attack us, it will be one who has been raised or lived in the states, like the 9-11 bombers that will. Just like the British citizens who bombed London. God forgive us if they come. But wouldn't it be nice if we had spent some of the money here instead of there to protect ourselves. Why are we in Iraq really?? It wasn't the WMD's. Bush was told by the inspectors on the ground there, by many intelligent sources that they weren't there. Now we are finding the coverups that the administration did to get us there. Powell resigned when he was made a fool of. Again, what has your ideology told you to do. Be patriotic and defend Bush no matter what. You will defend him and in the end, will look bad doing so. When they find in a year that his staff lied, will you come back on here and write to me apologizing. No, you'll call me unpatriotic, Godless and a coward for finding out. But I am doing the citizens most patriotic duty of challenging my government and my President to hold the highest standards. I am asking the questions that should be asked, not following like a sheep. When in the end a thousand or ten thousand more American soliders lay dead for a cause that no one can explain to me, who's ideology tells me why? If it was because Hussain was a bad guy, there's many bad guys in the world, including one that crashed planes into the World Trade Center that we have not attacked. Many bad leaders of nations in this world that have mass genocides against their people that we don't invade. Who tells me about why we really attacked Iraq? You, calling me names for asking? You haven't told me anything that Bush hasn't stood up and said. I don't trust him and 65% of Americans don't, 55% think he was wrong to invade. So I am on the side asking and questioning and you are on the side that defends and doesn't have any answers for me except to say shut up and be patriotic. Well sir I am more patriotic then you'll ever be because an ideology doesn't allow you to be flexible and change. Like Bush cannot say he did things wrong, youre defense is to call names. You deserve your ideology.
J
By
Anonymous, at Monday, July 25, 2005 6:36:00 AM
If we were to follow J's position we would: 1)Bring our troops home from Iraq 2) Spend money on a police state and take money away from the military for their hardware. This would lead to: An attempt to hire enough police and security personel to guard hundreds of thousands of vulnerable targets throughout the U.S. (We would need to guard malls,water treatment facilities, pipelines, water storage tanks, conventions, stadiums, downtowns, electrical grids as well as the docks borders and airports that J mentioned. This country is so target rich that it would be virtually impossible to guard all vulnerable areas adequately. And withdrawl from Iraq will only embolden Terrorists more. It will also be easier for them to organize and train for future attacks. The statistics that J used are disputable. Most pollsters can get the results that they want by simply asking the right type of question to the right type of group. Every polling organization has some bias. Zogby leans to the right and ABC and the New york Times lean to the left. Did the poll that J used have a high percentage of Democrats as participants? Was it even scientific? Did it draw from and small sample or a large one? Were those who were polled from urban areas or the suburbs? There is way too much variability to trust a poll. J wonders why we attacked Iraq. It is to stop the spread of Islamafacism. If such extremism spreads to the rest of the Muslim world's governments then our oil supply would be threatened. WMD's were just a small part of the overall reasoning behind the invasion. In a couple of posts J mentions how I use talking points from Rush and Sean. Sorry but like I said in another post I only listen sporadically. I was a conservative long before Sean and Rush hit the airwaves. I do not need their guidance. It seems that J listens to Rush and Sean much more than I do because J has a good familiarity as to what the talking points are. I also wonder how J has such great inside information on our efforts to find Bin Laden. How does J know if our efforts have been extreme or not?
Today Jane Fonda said that she is now going to start protesting the Iraq war the same way she protested the Vietnam war. Look who is on your side now J. We do not need the Vietnam War loser philosophy to be applied to the Iraq effort. You are free to follow your peacenik socialist thinking. I will stick to my hawkish Republican guns.
By
Anonymous, at Monday, July 25, 2005 10:08:00 PM
Rholmgren,
This is my last post on this subject as you are a nut and it would be impossible to argue with someone that holds such bias and prejudice. I can't believe that you actually stated your true bias. We are there to stop the spread of Islamafacism??? How many readers on here knew that fact??? So what you are saying we want to convert Islam to Christianity and all governments to Democracy??? Who gives us that right in your mind?? So what we are doing is creating the ancient Crusades in your mind and that is the bigger picture. Well, like I said, you are a nut, plain and simple. And then on top of that you state the real reason. OIL!!! You don't give a damn about the Iraq people. You care about oil and the conversion in ideologies. That's exactly what the Republicans are trying to keep from the people by hiding behind the WMD talk. Thanks for being nutty enough to say it.
You are wrong stating my position about pulling out immediately from Iraq. We can't. We are stuck in the short term to helping clean up the mess we have and the 300 billion and more to come can't be used elsewhere, it's already gone. My statements go back to J.L.'s original question and what I believe was the reason for the war but you admitted to it. Oil and Conversion. Republican's don't care about all the poor people there. Conservatives want the power and the money that can be gained for the Oil companies and military related companies. But they shot themselves in the foot when what they assumed, would be roll over dead people, didn't roll over and die. We were wrong to send our troops in, period, but there is nothing we can do about it now except bite the bullet. You also use Vietnam as an example but it's another place we used fear tactics on the American people about Communism. Beware, once Vietnam falls, next Japan, next all the Pacific Islands and then US!!! Did that happen. Of course not. Again to state my thoughts clearly. I said all of that money could have been better spent on homeland secruity, our infrastructure, our schools, our healthcare and our social secruity. Why should we spend it on Iraq??? Homeland secruity is the defense of our borders, our ports, our transportation systems. But our education, healthcare, feeding the poor and my retirement. This is what is important to me and my family. Not bombing Iraq cities to shreds to stop Islam. LOL. If we wanted Hussian out, we should have sent in our Intelligence and taken him out, even if it took some time. Instead we bombed their infrastructure and now all the money that could have been spent here on our roads (do drive in Southern California?) our schools, hospitals (Do we have too many hospitals here), my retirement (where do you think this 300 billion came from to finance this war?). Yes, we can always be there to help other countries but not alone like we are today. Who died and left us responsible for being the World's police? We can't be. But oil is involved here. Thats why we attacked, you stated it in your e-mail. It's to stop Islam from expanding, well brother we will never stop it. So with your reasoning, we should be almost ready to attack Iran especially since the new Iraq government is negotiating and sign deals with them. Are they not the Islamicfacism that you are talking about? And lastly, yes, I believe that we should keep a strong military but not a military at war which increases the cost by hundred times not to mention the more important loss of life. Ask your neighbors if they would rather have had that 300 billion dollars spent on our people and it's infrastructure or the pressing need to occupy a country. Again, Hussian was a terrible man, but he and his family could have been dealt with in a different manner. You are exactly what the Republican party doesn't want the American people to think they are, but it's exactly what many in todays Executive branch are. Nuts. So you must be a young guy. Talk to me, if I'm still around in 20 years. I too was a war nut in 1968 and voluteered my service and was not drafted. I did two tours, not one. I rose to the rank of Captain, from the bottom. Today I work in the business world. I have seen three wars this nation has been involved in and only one made sense and that was the Gulf War. LOL. Grab your Republican gun and go help fight. Show your moxy and go enlist. You are all talk and nothing else. I was a child when I had my patriotic fever and now I am a man, who has seen what you brag about and I don't like it. Killing is not good in any shape or form. I know because I have killed and it is something that stays with you every day of your life.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, July 26, 2005 4:44:00 AM
J You may be senior to me in age but you are light years ahead of me in ignorance. Islamafacism is the cult that the extremist terrorists advocate. They in no way represent mainstream Islamist preachings. Defeating Islamafacism has absolutely nothing to do with trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. Google the term and educate yourself before ranting about crusades and nuts. Why is it so surprising to you that I admitted that the war is to secure oil supplies? It does not take an Einstein to figure out what would happen to our economy if our Middle East oil supplies were cut off. Why are you so preoccupied with age anyway? Would it surprise you to know that I remember Nixon and Johnson? Does it matter? I am sorry to hear that you have written your last post. Go cut and run and start writing letters to your Congressman. Keep demanding more socialist benefits. You can also join Hanoi Jane on her bus tour. Your present political positions mirror hers.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:24:00 AM
R,
You are on the conservative hate train. Thats all you seem to know is personal attacks. Anyone who reads your comments sees your personal attacks against me not just my opinion as just that. You give no basis for your reasoning, just attack. Let's think of who else does that.....let me think.....oh yea, the Bush administration and all far right conservatives. They want to lie and scheme to decieve and then when challenged instead of talking they attack, attack, attack without saying anything except calling names. Did you watch the way they reacted to the Rove scandal? They attacked any Democrat around. As soon as they are caught it's Hilary this Clinton that. I have no need to call you names. I do have advice. If you so strongly think that the world needs to rid itself of people that have a different style and I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT TERRORISTS, pick up your Republican gun and go fight. You haven't answered that. Go fight. If you can't, volunteer for a civilian job that helps the military. All I hear from you is coward this and coward that. I did my duty, what about yours??? Go do your duty, come back to me after you do it and tell me how proud you are of yourself. If you do I would gladly shake your hand, on second I would shake your hand either way. I am proud to be an american and have the right to express my opinion. Jane Fonda has a right to her opinion too. I fought for her to have that right. Im proud she can stand up and say it just like im proud that you can say mine too. I just wish you had the backbone to prove your bravery. Bravery isn't in following like sheep but in the test of challenging those who manage and guide our freedom. I don't want freedoms taken away, but strenghtened. Is that what Jane Fonda believes in, great Im glad. Does she believe that this land is the greatest country in the world, great me too. Does she believe that we all need to do our part not just spew hatred. I don't hate anyone, except those that desire to shut up my freedom of speech. You have it too and you don't even have to do anything for it, me and the other vets already did it for you. LOL.
J
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, July 26, 2005 2:01:00 PM
J You think my postings are nothing but name calling and attack attack attack? Oh please! I have been exercising extreme restraint. How have I attacked you personally? I am critical of your ideas and sarcastic about your reasoning . Nothing more.Anyway get used to the democrats being Republican whipping boys. The Dems power has been erroding since '94. It erroded further in the 2004 elections. You had better get used to us Republican nuts being in charge for a while. I also do not understand how you can conclude that being a Republican makes one a hater.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:19:00 PM
What personal attack???? You called me a coward and you have no idea of anything about me. You called me a Vietnam era loser. Every post that you have sent degresses into a hate for any view but your own. I don't call you a coward. You have the right to your opinions and as long as you don't call me names without knowing me I will continue to dispute your talking points. I really am not a Democrat nor a Republican. I am neither a committed liberal but surely not a conservative. I voted for Bush this last election because I decided that it is better not to change mid-stream when already committed to the war in Iraq. But I really hope that the Democrats put up someone that has some direction and I will turn my direction. We see daily the lies and coverups of the Republican party. Look at the conservatives to the South of us. The Rep in Oceanside and the Mayor of San Diego are both crooks. I see this major swing of abuse and corruption. You can't defend that. These men are being pushed out of office because they have been caught. Bush has lied period. He really is an embarrassement to Republicans. Why would you think so many cabinet members left the administration mid-stream after the election? You have Bush pushing and pushing Rove and Cheney's agenda. It gets clearly with each corrupt step they take. Bush barely won both times and instead of this great country bonded by a War on Terror, you have a divided hostile nation. We do, and no matter how you spin the polls, we are clearly divided. We become more and more divided when people can't see past ideologies. If the conservative side says stand for this, you all stand for it whether in your heart you believe it or not. You follow like sheep to the slaughter. There is no questioning, no reasoning. Look at the lady in Florida who was brain dead. Every Republican went crazy over this. They had no rights. They blamed the judges yet every level of court sided against them. They wanted the police and military to step in. They tried to create a law to stop one family from rightfully doing what the laws of our great land allow. Even after the autopsy came out, prodical son Bush in Florida wanted the DA to investigate further and the DA came back and said, what are you kidding me. They just want to take our personal freedoms away. I fought for these personal freedoms. I want them to be strenghtened, fortified.
You still have not answered my question. If I have cowardly beliefs, then why don't you tell us about your bravery or tell me how youre going to get involved with the military and join or work in a military hospital or on the docks on North Island or in the commisarry at Camp Pendelton. You love the war mongering and your words are full of killing, go back and re-read them. So tell us, what are you going to do. Why is it the first thing Republicans do when they are in trouble or something goes wrong, is jump at Clinton. He is not my hero and he isn't President anymore. He is just as Daddy Bush is, just a former President. GW has to answer alone for the things that are happening. The buck stops with him. If something happens in his administration it is his fault. So the subject we started with is Rove and thats where it should be. Rove was fired by the first Bush for leaking information and he did it again to attack someone with a different opinion. Whether the opinion was right or wrong, he gave up the identity of a CIA agent and then lied to the Grand Jury about it. Is any logical person out there going to tell me he didn't have a plan to do that? Is anybody out there going to tell me his Boss didn't know? Or if not immediately, soon after? With Bush's misleading statements before the attack on Iraq, does anyone really truly believe anything he says when it comes to his protection of his ideology? More then 50% (how's that for not using poll numbers), believe he doesnt tell the truth and he is not straightforward. This is my President we are talking about. So if he is not straightforward on one thing, why do any of us think he would on any other issue? I want my President to come before us and tell me everything he knows and when he knew it about this Rove leak. But this is Richard Nixon all over again. Stonewall is all they are capable of doing. Even Republicans have come out and said the Supreme Court nomination came out a few weeks before he was going to so as to try and change the subject. R, we shall see who is right and who is wrong and if I am, my ideology does not prevent me from getting back on here and saying I was wrong. Does yours??? Conservatives are never wrong are they??? They just attacked Bill and Hilary if they are!!! LOL. It is a running joke and it keeps running away from honesty. So follow all your current honest and truthful leaders like Delay, Cunningham, Rove, Dick Murphy, Doctor Frist, the Govenator (how much did he get for preventing a law on steroids) and George Bush. The Republican party even tried to step in here in Murrieta and stop the recall but Murrieta slapped them in the face. Maybe it would have been better to keep that 300 billion dollars here for the lawyers they need to protect themselves and the balance they could just have given straight to the oil companies. It would have saved lives.
J
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, July 27, 2005 7:51:00 AM
What happens when a couple yo-yo's share one really long string? (See above).
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:01:00 PM
5:01, I disagree with calling people names. This goes for you with your "YO YO" nonsense, and Rholmgren or Holmgren, whatever his name really is, with his "communist" and "liberal" name calling. It is good when people can air their differences, but the name-calling puts a foul odor in that air, and that does no one any good. When one person calls another a communist, and then that person replies with "Hanoi Jane", they are both coming from the same level, and that level should be below the dignity of the truly respectable people who want to enjoy reading the exchange of views in this web site. I have noticed that when people start lowering themselves to name calling, the number of participants on the site starts to decline. That is, I'm sure, because very few people want to get into an area where mud is being thrown. Let's clean it up. Even the terms "liberal" or "conservative" which are not dirty words, becomes dirty when used by someone with dirty intentions. We have seen examples of such dirt in this column of exchanges.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:36:00 PM
5:36,
I agree that I degressed some after stating my opening opinions in this string of exchanges and repeatedly stated that I did't want to be called names or my opinion stated to be unpatriotic and defended myself but if you read back you will find that I do respect his opinion and his right to have one. I will disagree with you about the words liberal and conservative in todays political world, because they have become dirty words. They are dividing this nation. I wish that people thought and spoke with their hearts and minds and not because a selected group or ideology has instructed them. If I offended or hogged this string please step in and I would be glad to talk as neighbors, because I am yours.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:29:00 PM
Nope. I still say yo-yo's. All this stilted political garbage from know-nothing-nobodys. A lot of hot air. You guys are a bunch of cartoons.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:50:00 PM
Dear 7:50,
If what you wrote is an example of what you add to life in general, you are a negative in this world. There are a whole lot of people who spend their lives and thoughts wallowing around in put-downs, hatred, and negativity. Such people are not leaders. On the other hand, people who add something to life are those who find something good, form a strong foundation, and build upon it. They have no time for negativity. You have no idea who I am, and I have no idea who you are, so don't take this personally: I wish you the best in life. Productivity. Happiness and love. But all those things will remain in the background of your possibilities unless you first forsake your self-satisfying desire to be negative, which is nothing other that a form of self-gratification that leads nowhere. May you live long and prosper.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, July 29, 2005 8:44:00 AM
Good Morning,
This string began with a "World News" heading and quickly digressed into name calling and bickering. I would like to suggest a change of direction. Without getting into words of political bravado and lashing out at others, I want to ask readers how we, in Murrieta, see our future as a community in relation to world events. If you look at London, it seems amazing that the city is being philosophically torn apart at the seams by horrible yet relatively small bombing incidents. Do you think our local population is psychologically ready for disaster if disaster arrives locally? Even if not terrorists, how about if natural calamities or man-caused accidents were to occur (i.e., the accidental release of major toxins in a horrible accident). And let's think about the local impact of potential major terrorism. Let's think large scale, but local area. These are potential real world concerns, and deserve a closer look. It will do no good to start taking swings and pokes at each other in attempting to answer such questions. This is real world stuff, not fantasy, and we can all be affected by it. I've put my name on a few comments in earlier months, but I'm holding back now until things get a bit more civil in here. A couple of recent comments show that there are still some readers left who are thinking outside the confines of self-centered emotion, and it is those to whom this comment is addressed.
Anon for Now
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 30, 2005 8:39:00 AM
8:39,
I am the poster being called the names and you are right, bickering doesn't have to be listed in this forum. I was just defending myself and answered the subject in question which was Karl Rove. I agree that the citizens in Murrieta can really ask themselves how world events will affect us. I don't think that terrorists will ever attack our homes here, as there are more sensitive areas about the US, but we as a community should look to the days following 9-11 as an example of what we should do and pull together. We are being hard pressed I'm sure as a community with the rising price of gas, which has to be part of this unstable world. This has to be one of the biggest challenges to each and every family. I don't mean to belittle families that have sons and daughters at risk. I wish I had an answer for all of us, but it really seems to me that what we are doing today can't be right? Can it?? I see congress has given the roads some valuable funds and this is important and a big step in helping Murrieta conquer issues that have also affected all of us daily. I would love to hear others opinions. I only degressed because I was called a coward and felt, as anyone would a need to give my opinion to the attack. Another area that could affect Murrieta is the lack of a high quality, hospital to match the growing population. If we were ever damaged in an attack, where would the injured go? Do our hospitals have the capability to handle a major bus crash on a freeway? Do they have the staffs? The facilities? I don't have a clear answer but it doesn't appear to be so. I think that we need to focus more on us the citizens of Murrieta and less on the growth and secruity abroad. Let the intelligence people, now that they are funnelling funds into them address that and lets keep funnelling funds into our community infrastructure. Our police and fire departments and our municiple departments could also expand? Are these not the issues weighing heavy on our minds?
By
Anonymous, at Saturday, July 30, 2005 7:26:00 PM
Oh the irony! It is so common in today's political climate to have a blogger (Or politician) state that they are neither Republican nor Democrat. They then proclaim that no ideology defines them. They are "open minded." Then they proceed to spew out the leftist Democratic dogma straight from the playbook. A conservative Republican will proudly proclaim party affiliation. A liberal Democrat will act like a slippery grunion and flop their way around the label. One day they are progressives the next day they are moderates. It is a disingenuous strategy that exposes them for the cowards that they are. J or Jeff you are just too predictable. Be proud of your liberalism the same way that you are proud of your military service. Don't start your postings with all those lame political qualifiers ( I am not Republican nor a Democrat or I have no Ideology) and then proceed to puke out all the liberal democrat propoganda. And don't be so easily offended that I labeled your political positions as cowardly. Go back to school J and take a few debate courses. There will always be a few labels (names) thrown your way. Take it like a man and stop complaining.
One more thing: If Bush is a liar then was Clinton? Was Bush 1? Was Reagan? Was Carter? Was Nixon? Two of the above Presidents got in trouble for lying to cover their own asses. The rest are liars when it comes to National security and wartime (or cold wartime policy).
Is it wise to tell the truth when National security is at stake? Do you think that there are still secrets that the public has not been told? A generation passed before we learned about the Indian Code talkers of WW2. We probably will not know the complete truth about this war until 30 years from now.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:16:00 PM
Rholmgren,
I have read other posts you have on this site and find them offensive. I did take debate courses in college and can tell you have never since the first rule of thumb is to never, ever, call your opponent names because it expresses uncontrollable emotion. LOL. I have a coursebook that you can borrow if you like. On the day you learn to talk respectful, then I will reply to your comments.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:29:00 PM
Rholmgren,
One last things Mr. Holmgren, we are neighbors as I live just a few blocks from you. Good luck in all your comments on here. One day it would be nice to be able to discuss politics without the disrespectful rhetoric. It makes the people who live around you uncomfortable.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Sunday, July 31, 2005 9:37:00 PM
Sorry J I moved. And if you knew me you would know that my emotions are always in check. I really don't care if you respond or not. I will never stop posting. Have a nice life.
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, July 31, 2005 10:39:00 PM
"In check?" Clearly not. Check out his past posts in this and earlier strings. But is he dangerous? Not likely. At least we know who he is.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 02, 2005 1:06:00 PM
Is he one of THEM or one of US?
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:01:00 PM
Thanks Rholmgren,
20 more servicemen are dead and they're families morn. 20 more families are without sons and husbands. And what did we accomplish? Not one thing. 20 more dead and the chickenhawks don't care. They never went. They sit back and send 20 more. They just wrap themselves in our flag. They say we who challenge and ask questions aren't patriotic. We are told we are cowards and whimps. But they ask 20 more families to send their sons and husbands and they sit back and pound their chests with pride. How many more die? But, they say the Iraq will have a constitution soon and they will vote. How does that stop this? The bombing and the murders? It won't. They can have a President and a Vice-President and still the bombers will come. Still 20 are dead and you can't bring them back to life. 1800 are dead and thousands wounded. When does this end?? Help me understand this Rholmgren?? Tell me how these deaths have changed anything for the better for me the American citizen. The resident of Murrieta, CA? How am I safer? These are not terrorists we are fighting. These are civilian insurgents, Iraqis, Syrians, Arabs and yes a small amount of Al Queda fighting in their homeland. But these are not people that want to jump on planes to attack America here. They would have already if they could. They are people who used to be in power and want it back. They were not the ones that flew airplanes into our towers. Help me understand. If not you, then someone out there, tell me why we are there?
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:22:00 PM
Retreat! Retreat! cries the embittered veteran, as those who hate America around the world cheer him on.
I once knew a man who was a "conscientious objector" in WWII. He was every bit as convinced that WWII was the wrong war for America as you, Jeff, are about the current war. He could back up his arguement with about a million very convincing words, and he was just as good at doing it as you are. And yes, you do it well.
I respect you, and I respect my WWII acquaintance as well. And I know your arguements about this war are far different, but every bit as sincere as his were about the war of his day.
My old acuaintance could not see the shades of gray in the premise of each and every arguement he made. And he could not be argued with, although he claimed to have an open mind. He always had a way of turning everything back on those whose politics were different than his own. He even found a way to make the holocaust the fault of the Republican party, and to the degree Roosevelt was not all the way left, he blamed Roosevelt as well.
People like my old acquaintance, and you sir, are so closed minded that words will never have effect. The only thing that might have changed the mind of the old conscientious objector would have been, I imagine, a panzer division marching down the main street of his home town. And the only thing that is going to change the mind of some people today is the modern day version of that panzer division, in the form of something like a plague of biological agents.
Sure, I know you're going to spit fire back at me now. Like my old acquaintence, your potential for arguement is probably endless. And I have no doubt that you and people like you are going to win. We will end up withdrawing, for it's the path of least resistance, and few people have the stomach for a long fight. I just hope you have the answers when the other shoe falls.
I'm going to leave you to your words now, just as I learned to do with the old objector. Because your mind is set in its ways, I'll not argue with you further.
Thanks for the time you served your country, and to the degree you think you still serve it, thanks for that as well.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:55:00 PM
Sir,
You told me that I am like another you have known but the question I asked was to tell me why these men are dead and more will be tomorrow. I am looking for reasons. I am not a lefty but a realist looking for real answers and you didnt answer that. I respect everyones right to thought and respect that you have challenged me. I welcome that, thats why I write this but I am bothered. I am not for wihdrawing immediately. I am stating my opinion for not rushing into wars unless we are attacked. We were attacked and I supported Afganistan. I would gladly have gone to find Bin Laden. But we changed directions for another purpose and I can't for the life of me understand it. Please communicate and I will never attack someone who talks respectfully and honestly. Thats how people come to sensible compromise. I support John McCain and I support the Presidents right to select a fair judge and Roberts seems to want to be fair. I am not some raving left person but surely all who read this must realize what a terrible unwinable situation we are in. I do have the stomach to fight any battle that is worth fighting but not one we are fighting for someones agenda. Thank you for the thanks but I have already been thanked. I am not so set as to not be able to compromise, just prove me wrong is what I ask. Show me the purpose.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 4:09:00 PM
Sorry to butt into the conversation, but I read the last two entries and a very interesting question came to my mind. In world war 2, japan attacked us in the pacific. But germany did not attack us. Should we have waited until german paratroopers were raining down on Washington before we took action against germany? We waited too long as it was. If we had stopped germany when we saw Hitler invading france and poland, we could have spared the lives of more Americans than you could ever imagine. A policy of waiting to shoot until after we've been shot dead is a formality only our enemy could appreciate. Such delay cost the lives of many good men in the 1940's. It can happen again. The difference is, our enemies no longer need tanks and million man armies. They are like snakes in nests throughout the middle east, just waiting to slither toward us. Our soldiers are doing all they can to take the fight to those snakes. It's too bad those snakes have allies in America.
William S.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 6:48:00 PM
Hi William,
I was thinking along the same lines as you are. We could have used some earlier pre-emptive action in WWII. There's a lot of other examples in our history that point out how stupid it is to wait until its almost too late to take action. I support both our troops and the commander in chief. Monday morning quarterbacks don't help anything.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:20:00 PM
Woah you all... heres some real war talk, I heard WARnie Enochs is making a deal with a DEVELOPER for some land he owns. WARnie is going to be richer than a skunk. Bet he LOVES developers now!!!!!
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:33:00 PM
7:33: "Richer than a skunk"? What does that mean?
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:42:00 PM
If money stinks, WARnies gonna smell bad. If money's a bra size, Warnie's about to go double D.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 7:50:00 PM
I can't believe 6:48 and 7:20. So you're telling me that it was OK for a pre-emtive strike because you think that Iraq was on par militarily as Germany in WWII? What risk did they pose us? You are afraid they were going to drop paratroopers on say Hemet???? They didn't attack us nor did they attack the World Trade Center. Over the last 8 years there military had been decimated. They had no navy, no air force and virtually all their tanks had no repalcement parts because of the embargo. Their military virtually surrendered. We were told prior to attacking that they had no WMD's but as we are seeing today, the White House misinformed us, for lack of using a word that you can't accept. If we had delayed, nothing would have happened to the US. The Iraqis didn't attack us nor were they issuing threats to us. It was Bin Laden that was doing that. Wow, I can't believe that you have no clue and then answer my post. From 6:48's post, I assume he would be for just blowing up the whole Middle East and let the medics sort them out. I love how anyone who questions Bush is a traitor. Go wrap yourself up in the flag and send your sons off to war and say nothing. And then come back and tell me in ten years after we accomplished nothing what they died for. Lets not wait on Syria and Iran either, as Iran is much more powerful then Iraq would have ever become. Can either of you point out where Iran is on the map? We live in the different era then the 1940's when we didn't dominate the world as we do today. The Iraq's and Iran's can never attack us, it will be the Bin Laden's from within and by stirring up that snakes nest over there all we do is encourage them to strike. Unless you are willing to wipe out all the snake nests at once, by taking a stick and stirring them up all you will do is get bit. William, what happened during WWII cannot happen to the US in a conventional war, ever. What can be repeated is the same terrorist attack at home that happened on 9-11. Turn up Fox News or Rush Limbaugh and cheer them on and shake your heads up and down and 20 more brave men will come home in body bags and I still don't know why.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 9:15:00 PM
Mr. Seyarto,
Isn't the internet great. If you really want to research something, all you have to do is click your mouse and it pops up. I read that this developer contributed ten grand to the fund not to recall you and had made threats that if his plan was not accepted after some changes that he would sue. The city attorney said in the article that his suit would likely not hold up in court. It said that two members voted against it because they asked this developer to change his design and he rejected that. I assume he is pretty angry that his $10,000 didn't get him his project. He said that this decision was done in retailiation, yet again I bring up the planning commissions decision. Are they too retailiating against this developer too. Isn't it a funny that the two men that recieved contributions in support of "no" recall voted for them. You'd think that you would state reasons beyond trying to help young kids live in our community, as to why this developer shouldn't meet the requirements of the planning commission of changing their design. You are right, I was not informed but the more I research the more I learn about you. Since you felt so confident bunching me with others, should I feel just as confident to put two and two together to figure this one out or do I act with more respect and ask you why that you didn't demand the same changes and a modified plan by the developer? Mr. Seyarto, am I asking a public servant too many questions when it appears that a disservice to our community has taken place? You talked about a code of ethics in your bylaws in the Murrieta Insider. Who enforces these ethics? Is there a governing body that watches our City Council? It's funny when someone gets angry when questioned and turns to attack. I would feel every member of our community should ask questions and I believe it your duty to answer.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:27:00 PM
6:48 and 7:20 Jeff's not a liberal but he sure speaks like one doesn't he. He sounds alot like England's Chamberlain prior to WW2. Jeff stop with the body count already. You are disrespecting the men and women who are fighting so you can live safely here. The best defense is offense. Kill those cowardly rat bastards (terrorists).No I,m sorry. We should go back and handle them like Clinton did .Get attacked (world trade center 1) threaten legal action... Get attacked (U.S embassays bombed in Africa) Threaten more legal action
....Get attacked (Somalia) Threaten to arrest and prosecute ......Get attacked (U.S. Cole is bombed) Threaten more and still do nothing..... words words words and impotent legal responses. Sorry Jeff I want action and I salute those serving and protecting us now. I have lost loved ones during my life and my heart bleeds for those relatives who have lost loved ones in this war. People like you kick dirt in the face of their sacrifice and disrespect their service. Today's service members are the bravest of the brave and you Jeff are still a lowly lefty coward.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:35:00 PM
Mr. Rholmgren,
You are the perfect chickenhawk. Action, this is action. What are we doing. Nothing. We are sitting ducks. Roadside bombs by insurgents that we cannot defend ourselves against. Action would be attacking Bin Laden. But no, he doesn't make oil companies rich does he. I support the troops far more then you do as I want them in the best situation possible. You my friend are the unamerican coward. You don't want free anything. You want everyone forced into conservative values. You have no views except to follow what conservatives tell you to believe in. Again, you have not stood up to my question of what you are doing to support the troops. Sitting in your house telling others to fight the battle I find cowardly. Yes, friends, send your kids to die. You still haven't told me why. No one has. You say nothing except I am a liberal coward. You have no answers. You don't know why Bush lets them die. Oh, yes you do, you mentioned it in your other posts. OIL. I laugh at you Rholmgren, because you are a coward and have no ideas, except anything the conservative party offers. We see what they offer....Rove, Delay, Frist, Brother Jeb (is he still after Schaivo), Mehlman, and Bush. Well if all you have for me is I'm a coward and it's good that are brave boys are dying, thats not an answer, its the Republican way....attack when you know your wrong and call them liberal cowards. I'm surprised you haven't attacked my religious beliefs but thats coming I just know you. I support our boys, that I am allowed to call brothers by service. All you have is calling me a coward, but sir, those who send boys to their death and never have been in action remain the cowards. How many Senator's sons died of the 1800? How many CEO's sons died of the 1800.....I'll bet none. Conservatives like you are the cowards. So Mr. conservative, you still haven't told me why are boys are there. Don't tell me about fighting them there nonsense. No Iraqi insurgents are getting on planes and paratrooping here. If you want to fight Al Queda, get Bin Laden. We aren't. Were are building water plants for a nation we tore apart, and getting blown up driving to our bases. What great patriotism and conservative values that represents. I never kick dirt in the faces of my brotheren. But you send them to die and I still dont have my answer, because you dont have one.
Jeff
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 12:10:00 AM
Jeff you are right. I have no answer for one that thinks in irrational circles. Good luck during the next election cycle. The twenty year trend of the Democrats losing power will continue. They will keep wondering why and still stubbornly think the way you do. Thank God your way of thinking is on the left wing minority extreme. Go have a drink with your buddy Kennedy.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:35:00 AM
Jeff, I know you're way too young to remember WWII, but maybe you've heard the story of General Patton slapping the soldier who became afraid after seeing too much of the war. General Patton was right to try to slap some sense into that soldier, but he was persecuted for that correct action until the day he died, and our enemies benefitted from it. You, sir, are that soldier. But there is no General Patton around to try to slap some sense into your head. And anyone can argue the difference in any situation - your silly suggestions of comparing current concerns to paratroopers landing in a local town just shows that you don't really get it.
General Patton...
A posthumous "Thank you!" And... We need more men like you in our military. Not just those who have found courage from time to time.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:09:00 AM
Rholmgren,
Like I said you have no answers to the situation our neo-con President has put us into. Every reason has been discounted and all you can do is call names when someone challenges you for answers. How weak is that?? I thought you were this great debater, but you have nothing. Do you realize that your hate for Democrats includes about half this country. More then half this country agree with me, that this war was a mistake and that Bush has lied and we have no plan. More then half think youre wrong. By the way Cunningham down in San Diego needs some of the right wing lunatics to help him move. And he'd like you to buy his house for say three or four times what it's worth and he'll support any agendayou like for doing it. Or if you ask ole Karl, he'll give you a few names of CIA agents if they believe different then he does. And of course Jeb down in Florida needs an investigator to track down Terri Shaivo's gravesite. He wants to try to dig her up and revive her. Or Tom Delay could use your name to do some money laundering. These are all useful guys for you. I laugh at you because you talk nonesense. You still haven't answered me and you never will, why we are in Iraq and our boys are dying? And another died yesterday as you sit and say RAH RAH. Be proud of yourself because you have no ideas of your own. Anyone reading each post should see that you say nothing of what you believe in yourself. You say nothing of what we should do or why we are really in Iraq. You are like a child and when caught in a lie or failure you hitback instead of reasoning. Like those two guys yesterday who compare attacking Iraq with not attacking Germany in WWII. What planet do they live on??? But we can see where they get their news. It comes from propaganda. It comes from being told that Iraq is part of 9-11 by the right wing, although a US commission came out and said that had no basis. They hear the President tie in 9-11 with the war in Iraq because he knows how to scare and mislead you. I repeat that you have no answer to my question. You attack and readers will see that in your next post. You call names and attack just like your other right wing chickhawk friends Limbaugh and Hannity. Go turn on druggy Rush and get your talking points for today. Let's see, Kennedy sucks, Hiliary is gay, Kerry is a coward, Durbin is unamerican. Oh and there are new ones too. Perkins and Dobson havent invited Dr. Frist to their Sunday school revival because he came out for stem cell research. BOO HOO. And another brave solider comes home dead.
Jeff
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:17:00 AM
7:50
How much money does WE's "double D" come out to? A couple million? And how were you able to get that kind of information?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:29:00 AM
Add my vote to the Patton comparison. People can't just choose to be courageous when it feels good.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:35:00 AM
9:09,
I was being facitious. LOL. You didn't read the other guy talking about WWII. I saw the George C. Scott movie too. You also come on here and say I don't know what I'm talking about but I would love to hear your argument. I just want the answer to why our soliders are over in Iraq dying, today and almost everyday. I want to know the plan that is in place to bring them home? I want to know when they get home why it was worth so many casulties? You all keep saying I'm misguided yet you don't give me one answer that makes sense and please don't tell me that we needed to strike first because we didn't in WWII. Iraq was not in a position to launch an assault on the US or on anyone else including the island of Aruba. Don't say we thought they had WMD's because we now know that Bush pretty much had been warned that it wasn't true. If you say to protect the OIL. Well I would ask why thousand of lives are worth oil we weren't getting anyway. If you say to rid the world of a terrible Dictator (which he was), I'd say why just him and not say Iran? North Korea? or even China? Niger? The Sudan? Or is it that you all just trust whatever the President tells you. But isn't it a fact that most Presidents lie to get their agenda. I didn't have sex with that woman? I wasn't involved in the Watergate break in? I didn't OK arms to the Contras? Do you think our President doesn't know everything Karl Rove does and doesn't sit in on planning things? Do you for one minute want to tell me that President Bush didn't know about Rove leaking the name of that CIA agent? Let's figure out why half the Bush cabinet quit after the first term including Colin Powell. Maybe because they felt used and lied to. Maybe because Bush and Rove stuck a speech in Powell's hand that contained lies and made him look and feel a fool? So tell me Sir, why are we in Iraq and why are my neighbors dying? Why is the boy with three kids next door going in September? What goal are we going to fulfill? I want to hear so I can undertstand. You say I'm wrong, so tell me why your right. With all due respect.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:37:00 AM
Does anyone else think this string is turning into a talk therapy session for Jeff?
Hey Jeff... Some of us did not have to see the movie to know what happened in WWII. You, on the other hand, do sound like someone who gets their information from the movies. Probably got your philosophy of life from "Born on the 4th of July". Do you have fantasies of being the star of that show?
Since Vietnam, have you ever done anything other than feel sorry for yourself and complain about Republicans?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:46:00 AM
9:35,
If you haven't read all the posts here, please do. I am a Vietnam war veteran. I did serve two tours, not one. I volunteered was not drafted. I killed many people including woman and children and everyday hurt because of it. War is nothing as it is portrayed in the movies or even on the news. Nothing. Courage hurts and doesn't feel good. It isn't like scoring a touchdown. It's sickening. I am proud that I fought for the men with me, but none of us really knew why. Just like the boys today. You say the word courage as if it is what you receive but there is only duty and fear and fear and duty that come from war.
But if you'd like to see if you can find courage in war, I'm sure there is a bus at the recruiting center that can take you to it. Tell me how much the word means when you come home. And it is all of us that feel and felt that way unless you never got to see the destruction war brings. Courage is a word used by politicians.
Jeff
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:48:00 AM
9:46,
Still no answer to my questions. How come??? Maybe because you don't have any.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:49:00 AM
9:46,
We don't have to mention Vietnam again, there is no purpose as by your words you are not a brother. I just said in my last post, movies have nothing to do with war and are not real. I am the only thing real about war. And I just want answers. I don't want therapy. I don't want name calling. I want an answer. How tough is it for you??? Maybe this is Rholmgren just posting Anonymously.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:54:00 AM
This guy Jeff seems to want easy answers to the questions of life. He does not bother to answer anyone else's questions. Just whines and complains and cries "fox".
Answer up, Jeff. How about the questions that were just asked?
9:46
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:58:00 AM
9:46,
I don't want you to answer questions of life. I want to know why I'm wrong about thinking the war in Iraq was wrong and why we have sacrificed the lives of our brave soliders. Thats simple for most people to answer. You just keep posting with no answer. I have stated mine long ago on this string. You have said NOTHING.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:07:00 AM
Sure Jeff. Sure. You've convinced everyone our government is wrong by crying "fox" till you turn blue.
Now we know that what we should do is send the peace corps into the states which border iraq, singing "give peace a chance."
And if only we had know that song existed when Hitler was rising to power in Berlin.
You are sooooo right. Where can we join the protest march? Do you have any beads to share, for those of us who had left the sixties behind?
Complain, whine, complain, complain. It worked. I'm convinced. Good job!
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:16:00 AM
No. You're way is the right way. Another body bag. Again you just don't have any thoughts, just blame everyone else. Oh yea, it's Hilary's fault. LOL
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 1:02:00 PM
To the person who said "courage hurts". That's not true. It is the lack of courage in a situation which requires courage that hurts. I'm not ashamed to admit that I am a person who has seen this from both sides. Indecision, moral indecisiveness, and timidity hurts. Courage is a decisive, determined state of mind. In some people courage is an automatic thing. Others, like me, had to earn it by sticking it out through hard experience. Being in the middle of conflict not only tests what a person is made of, it forces them in one direction or another. Some of us become better people for it. We get stronger. We grow and evolve with courage. Others among us start thinking of routes of escape, and say they were courageous just because they
were in a situation where courage was needed. Some were there who fell short of that requirement. I don't blame them for that. The weight was too much for them to bear. Some grew as a result of the experience, and some withered. Regardless of what I've just said, I am not among those who believe Patton was right to strike the shell-shocked infantryman. We cannot rely on fragile, damaged minds to carry out military requirements. And we cannot rely on such minds to guide public policy.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:14:00 PM
2:14,
If you say you are a courageous person, I cannot argue. Whatever tough situation in life that you have endured I congratulate you. Each of us can define courage and bravery in our own terms.
I am laughing here though. This string goes on and on and still there is not one Republican or Conservative or Right wing thinking person that has displayed enough courage or conviction to tell me why we are fighting in Iraq? All the posts keep calling me a coward, or a left wing nut. But I have not heard a person out there step up to the plate and tell me your reasoning. You all keep telling me what I think and feel but you have no clue. I just want to know why YOU think we are there. I can't believe you all would keep posting, yet no one tells me anything near a reason. I won't protect my service as it doesn't need protecting, especially from the right wing looneys (not you 2:14) that jump up and down for the military yet berate and call veterans like me for having the guts and stamina to stand up and question my government. What terrible people we are to challenge it. What cowards right??? I believe the cowards are those that get in line and follow behind without saying a word, telling me to shut up. No friend. If not for peoploe standing up and challenging the President and his ratings falling to all-time lows each week, that now they are talking about pulling out. Even right-wing looney Bill O'Reily had two military people on last night on Fox News that admitted we are losing and it is time that the Iraqis stood on there own two feet. He's right. That's all I want. I want us to train them as quickly as possible and get out of this disasterous mistake. I don't want to cut and run today. I know more will die and it may take months. But we will never win this war. They have a different culture and it doesn't tolerate ours. Still Mr. 2:14 you haven't answered why we are there?????????????????
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:51:00 PM
We are laughing too Jeff, because people like you never do get it.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:53:00 PM
Hello. I for one agree with Jeff, but not in all ways. I think it was right enter Iraq. Iraq is a strategic centrally located position among the countries which foment terror. An ally there provides a long-term wedge of sorts to impede terrorists. None of this can be proven, it's just a best guess, and sometimes we are left with choosing among guesses.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:04:00 PM
3:04: You have to be kidding. You and LOL(ipop) are both suckers. Why don't you get together with Jeff and smoke some hash?
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:34:00 PM
No sir,
It's you that don't get it. But I'll try to make you get it by listing how many more brave and trusting soliders have died, not to mention been wounded. You are the one with no clue. Three more and 27 in the last five days. Hopefully not one of our family members.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:22:00 PM
Yeah, Jeff. And their blood is on the hands of everyone who is encouraging the enemy. You and your murderous self-righteous chums who provide the one thing our enemies can never gain without your help, and that is subversive propaganda. They can't survive without it. You are the killer of our soldiers. You rotten, vile, murderous, self-centered and self-aggrandizing hero of your own mind. You live in a circle of denial and delusion. You are, beyond the shadow of a doubt, the true killer of our sons and daughters.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 7:29:00 PM
Ayman al-Zawahiri (bin Laden's #2 man) has said that those who fight America with propaganda are "of the camp". "al Qaeda", translated, means "the camp." I agree with others reading this column that there is someone here who meets al-Zawahiri's stated definition of al Qaeda. These are not my words, but the words of al-Zawahiri, who would be proud of his friend who lives in our town.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:06:00 PM
7:29, and 8:06: THANK YOU for saying what needed to be said.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:11:00 PM
Hey Jeff I never claimed to be a great debater. Those people who posted above are head and shoulders better than I am with their comments. They prove that brevity is truely the soul of wit. Do you think long winded postings like yours are necessary to counter your small minded position? Your long answers deliver enough rope so you can hang yourself. Keep deluding yourself and believing that over half the country is on your side.
The reality is if over half the country were on you side then the Dems would have won seats instead of losing seats in the last election. Reality check Jeff. Your positions are losing elections. Why? Could the "polls" be a little off? Will the 20 year trend of Dems losing power continue next year? I hope people like you keep posting so that another Republican victory will be ensured.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:08:00 PM
I feel for you losers. It's me that is killing the troops? In what way do I support the insurgents? You all don't know. Another dead solider today. You back this White House but it's my fault. In what way do my comments interfere with our troops. THEY DON'T. But it scares the hell out of you for some reason. My words question the White House's agenda and it's my right. Where in your thinking does opposing this absurd conservative agenda that is leading us down a dead end road does not support the troops. I will defend each with my life and think although we stupidly went in there we need now to send more and quickly finish what we have done halfass so far and then get the hell out. All you brave bloggers sit on your asses and pound your chests. Get the assault weapons out of your closet and go over there and help the civilian contractors. You all don't believe in freedom of speech. You don't believe in freedoms do you? If you did you'd see past name calling. But that's what stupid ignorant, uneducated people do because they don't have the logic in their comments to answer without spilling hate.You believe in being sheep, followers. I love it. What stupid, stupid people. And boy, 8:06 you know far to much about the comments of al-Zawahiri don't you. What are you studing to be an al Qaeda operative. I'd watch him you Republican sheep, he may slip into your homes. LOL. If stating that one loves America doesn't do it for you, you attack when you can't defend. None of you know why we are there. It's incredibly funny that you have no clue what you are defending in these posts. I wish that I was a salesmen selling you encyclopedias, you all need them because you all have nothing in your heads but hate for those who don't have the same opinion as you. Now what churches do you fine patriotic people go to? LOL. I could call names but I'll leave it to all you smart intelligent people. Or for that matter we could meet and I could show you my hand which has only two fingers. I got it so you could be free to call me names and I guess I would do it again if I went back in time. So you will know me, I go to Albertsons off Cal Oaks and I already told you how to identify me. You all hide behind Anonymous. LOL.
Jeff
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:24:00 PM
You pitiful soul. Your hand is that of a brave soldier who died on a battlefield many years ago. Your brain is that of a present day subversive.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:22:00 PM
Your heart is just full of hate. I love when an agenda shows it's true soul and spirit. This is what the Republican party stands for...hate and name calling....don't you just love it.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:42:00 PM
Excellent string.
It is no small coincidence that synthetic psychedelic drugs acheived their dubious distinction as a technological art form in the late 60's and early 70's. It's a proven fact that their mind altering effects include increased succeptibility to suggestion, and permanent alteration of various neural structures.
The culture that promoted and used these drugs was inherently anti-establisment. The fact that Vietnam was largely a Johnson war did not keep the left wing idealogues from focusing their attention strictly on Republicans. Again, no coincidence. The focus of attack by drug users on Republicans was primarily due to the fact that Republican values have traditionally opposed the use of
narcotics and psychedelic drugs. Of course, the Democratic party does not promote drug use either, but by definition they tend to be more liberal, which to the druggies made them the path of least resistance.
Make no mistake. It is a scientific fact: The drug-induced influences and physical brain damage were not temporary.
I would like to ask Jeff if, in the 60's and 70's, he ever "experimented" with such substances. If so, that could explain some of what we are hearing from Jeff. But if not, then it may be that other motives are driving him to do exactly what binLaden and company would like him to do.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 8:06:00 AM
Excellent string.
It is no small coincidence that synthetic psychedelic drugs acheived their dubious distinction as a technological art form in the late 60's and early 70's. It's a proven fact that their mind altering effects include increased succeptibility to suggestion, and permanent alteration of various neural structures.
The culture that promoted and used these drugs was inherently anti-establisment. The fact that Vietnam was largely a Johnson war did not keep the left wing idealogues from focusing their attention strictly on Republicans. Again, no coincidence. The focus of attack by drug users on Republicans was primarily due to the fact that Republican values have traditionally opposed the use of
narcotics and psychedelic drugs. Of course, the Democratic party does not promote drug use either, but by definition they tend to be more liberal, which to the druggies made them the path of least resistance.
Make no mistake. It is a scientific fact: The drug-induced influences and physical brain damage were not temporary.
I would like to ask Jeff if, in the 60's and 70's, he ever "experimented" with such substances. If so, that could explain some of what we are hearing from Jeff. But if not, then it may be that other motives are driving him to do exactly what binLaden and company would like him to do.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 8:35:00 AM
Jeff, Your frequent and perverse use of the word "love" shows emotions as twisted as your philosophy.
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Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 9:03:00 AM
as a reader i just want to say that some of you are making interesting points but a couple of you are wrecking your own arguments by putting down other peoples political parties
if i can't even watch a tv news program without being hated for it then how can i respect the person who hates me
what about that?
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Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 12:14:00 PM
Has Murrieta forgotton whats important? What is going on with Warnie E. ????? Is he really getting rich and leaving town???? I have an enquiring mind, and I want to know!!!! Someone out there has the latest scoop. Please Share!!!!
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Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 2:30:00 PM
JLM had some info at one time. If he's tuning in, maybe he has some news. You out there, JLM?
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 2:57:00 PM
I am having a difficult time trying to understand Mr. Enochs. He's has a Rescue Murieta agenda (anti developer) and yet is possibly profiting enormously through a transaction with a developer. He's supposedly cruising around town in new exotic cars with a licensce plate that says Mr. Mayor. And in the past he has accused other city leaders of being in developers pockets. Hmmm I don't get it.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 4:20:00 PM
Rholmgren,
I have no idea if you care or not but in the other string it seemed that maybe you held out hope that we can talk normally and not attack beliefs that are unlikely to change. I am not as deep seated in my beliefs as you as I make mine up as I go and really don't support a certain side. I enjoy the other talking but not if I'm called a coward and traitor. Because you know that I'm neither. I know you truly believe what you post here and I truly respect a man that has the guts to stand up for it. I think even higher of a man, on either side of an argument that has the ability to ajust his opinion. Some this last day or two have really said some crazy things to me about subversive and other really stupid things. I don't need these people nor do I care when they say unintelligent things. Drugs??? I grew up in the sixties and to this day I have never even tried something illegal. Thats the truth and even if you hate me for what I believe, no one can call me a liar. I have seen drugs used and been with people who used them and seen them killed because they had no idea what was happening around them. So I won't keep posting if you Rholmgren don't call a truce to the name calling. I think you could become reasonable as can I if we took the time to understand or at least listen to each other. I don't know you. Even if you come back with more abuse, I will walk away thinking that at least we have the right to say things freely here in this country. So whatever you decide, I have taken a second look at some things you have said. Some men only know how to call others names, especially when they can hide behind the internet. I have told the bloggers how to find me and a clear identifier but know none will walk up to me. My hope is that you are more of a man and see past and can show respect to the other side even if you don't agree. Love.......the blogger who mentioned it, doesn't know what love is, because he can't see that I defended him for 8 years because no matter what he calls me, I love him and his family and this country. So good luck to you whichever way you answer this post. I'd like to know more about the Mayor's connection to developers. Has this been reported or is it just speculation.
Jeff
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Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 6:38:00 PM
8:35 I'll back up Jeff that he's a straight shooter. Don't know him, but he rings true. His main problem is that he comes on like a bat out of hell, rails and flails and insults and accuses everyone and everything he dislikes, and then acts all put off that people come back at him. Well, duh Jeff, what do you expect?
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Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 8:19:00 PM
Jeff the drug thing was a little over the top and you are not a liar just like Bush is not a liar. A little mistaken perhaps but not a liar. One thing is for sure I believe everyone has a right to express their opinion. I would never advocate anyone's posts being removed. Do not believe for a second that my beliefs are set in concrete. Tomorrows news may alter my opinion and I can almost guarantee that your opinion will still be the opposite of mine.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 8:21:00 PM
Jeff one more thing: None of my posts are motivated by hate. The only thing I hate is evil. Evil people must be stopped. Murderers, Terrorists, Rapists, and Child Molesters to me represent pure evil. I could never hate someone for expressing their opinion. Just do not commit any of the crimes above. I know these debates can seem harsh, but I think we use sharper words to compensate for the fact that there is no face to face communication. There is alot said by facial expressions and body language. I think postings are harder hitting because of a lack of personal contact.
By
Anonymous, at Friday, August 05, 2005 8:34:00 PM
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