Traffic gets an F-
Click on the title, here's an interesting article from Laura Mitchell regarding the traffic around here. Though things are apparently at an impasse regarding highway improvements, permits for large developments can continue to be issued. A developer can build and cash in, and then after the fact upgrade infrastructure. Does this not seem a little backward?
And remember, traffic is only the tip of the infrastructural iceberg.
And remember, traffic is only the tip of the infrastructural iceberg.
posted by J. L. Kunkle at
Thursday, June 02, 2005
13 Comments:
Can the city legally force developers to pay more than they already do for road improvements? Is it fiscally possible to install roads before development? Why can't we use more private sector contractors and engineers to speed up overpass and on/off ramp improvements? There is no way that the slow as molasas Cal Trans will ever keep pace with rapid and efficient private development.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:52:00 PM
Sorry to highjack this thread, but I just finished reading Rick Gibbs story in the June issue of The Murrieta insider and feel the need to set the record straight. First the citizens and city council of Murrieta did not covet land in Wildomar as Mr. Gibbs implied. Murrieta was approached by a group of Wildomar residents residing most in southern Wildomar along Clinton Keith who were told when they bought their homes that the area was to be annexed into Murrieta. To imply that the push for this originated in Murrieta is incorrect and a continuation of lies spread by Rescue Murrieta for their on political purposes without regard to what those Wildomar residents wanted.
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Anonymous, at Monday, June 06, 2005 4:46:00 PM
To: the self described hijacker, aka Anon 4:46: Let's see here. I think what you said is that because the annex move was "initiated" (or at least, apparantly so) by Wildomarites, that it is not possible anyone in Murrieta might have coveted Wildomar land. And then, Mr. or Ms.Hijacker, I think you proceeded to use this bit of reasoning in an attempt to paint Mr. Gibbs as a liar. Wow. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'm just having a hard time making sense of what you said.
Also, could you possibly enlighten us further by explaining who committed the fraud of misinformation which induced those poor homeowners to make their home purchases in an area doomed to never become part of Murrieta? I think lawsuits are in order. Fraud is a serious crime. If someone like Mr. vanHaaster was supplying developer's tract sales offices with empty promises, I think something should be done about it.
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Anonymous, at Monday, June 06, 2005 5:43:00 PM
Commercial landowners in the Clinton Keith area were approached and questioned as to if they would support annexation. The city council was well aware of the tax dollars in the Wildomar area. Murrieta was trying to do to Wildomar what Temecula tried to do to it over ten years earlier, suck up its southern Commercial base. That was one of the main reasons Murrieta pushed for incorporation. All Murrieta wanted from Wildomar was the commercial area in and around Clinton Keith. That is apparent when you see the support Jack and Kelly gave to Supervisor Buster’s proposal that Murrieta take all of Wildomar.
So, yea they didn’t covet the land in Wildomar, just the five million in tax dollars the commercial area will generate at build out. That was based on a study by the county about five years ago, so its probably higher now.
Also, I sincerely doubt the builders represented the area as being annexed by anyone during sales. Especially after they tried to get the school district switched to Murrieta and the County School board denied it saying it was for economic reasons only. Another issue the residents weren’t told was they would still be in Elsinore School district even if they annexed.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:37:00 AM
The people of Murrieta who oppose the annexation of the stretch of Clinton Keith in-between Murrieta’s boarders are either short sighted or just not care about their neighbors in northern Murrieta. Don’t people remember how hard it was and is get to I-15 when they opened the Albertson shopping center on the east side I-15. With Stater Bros on the North West side and phase two coming to the south west we are going to have to drive around to cal oaks just to get on the freeway. There is no Wildomar city council to go to and it is obvious the county could care less about traffic.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, June 07, 2005 7:54:00 AM
HA,
The county has had plans and funds to improve the Clinton Kieth overpass for some time. However when Murrieta began eyeing the area, the county held back. Why should they use county funds to improve a road that Murrieta was going to own. So if anything the residents in the area shot themselsves in the foot, at least over that traffic complaint.
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Anonymous, at Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:23:00 AM
Exactly, anyone that thinks Murrieta would have been improving Clinton Keith anytime soon only needs to look at Cal Oaks/Kamia at I-15 and Clinton Keith at I-215. It wasn’t going to happen overnight, just like the promise of a Fire station the minute they annexed. Murrieta has had Hot Springs for what now, four five years? They are just now getting a fire station, portable trailers that is, so let’s be truthful about what the annex was about. People saw dollar signs for the annex. The residents found a way to get property value up by adding Murrieta to their address and the City council saw a way to grab some commercial tax base.
I have no problem with increasing property values, but don’t do it at my expense. These annexations deplete our resources, fire and police. Before Murrieta took over Hot Springs, they ran three patrol cars and a rove car. When they took over Hot Springs they initially ran four patrol cars for the whole city. I don’t think that’s progress and Hot Springs took a lot of their time. I do not wish to see the quality of life here slip because someone is greedy. We are down Police officers and annexing Wildomar would have made the situation worse. Once you loose control of the crime in the area, you will not get it back to being the Gem it was.
Expansion to fast will hurt us all. If those people wanted to live in Murrieta, they should have paid the premium for buying here. When I bought I paid about 10K more for the same size house to live in Murrieta over the county area. So, you get what you pay for. I’m not going to sacrifice my quality of life for my neighbors to the North or South. In addition a whole incorporated Wildomar benefits us more than a cut up pie. If that makes me short-sighted then so be it.
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:10:00 PM
It would be interesting to know what housing tracts were making what representations about annexation. Tract salespeople get their talking points from their developers. Developers typically get their information on topics like annexation from city politicians or planning commission members. Tract sales people are ordinarily not allowed to make or even imply representations unless something is a "sure thing", because incorrect representations translate into major, expensive legal problems down the road. In short, a "sure thing" annexation means more sales dollars. Developers like to make political contributions to politicians who can deliver on such "sure things". The recall election may have thrown a surprising twist of events into some council member's or planning commissioner's promises with regard to annexation. Whether directly or indirectly, whether it is denied or not, it is a fact that the recall shook things up that went way beyond some of the more obvious matters on the surface. This may or may not have been one such matter, and it may or may not have involved "trades" of annexation promises for present or future campaign donations. Only the developers and the politicians know for sure. The rest of us are left to wonder. Before some councilman or planning commissioner goes off the emotional deep end in responding to this entry, I want them to be assured that no one is accusing them of anything. There's just something that doesn't seem right about people buying new homes with the expectation of an annexation that was not a "sure thing".
By
Anonymous, at Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:43:00 PM
Any word on when Wildomar plans to incorporate?
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J. L. Kunkle, at Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:20:00 AM
I don’t believe Wildomar will even incorporate. Wildomar is really a group of two people. Those in the newer southern end who want the services of a city and don’t mind paying for them and those in the north who don’t, and like the 1% property tax that comes with living in the county. I know this because I lived there for many years. I remember a survey sent some time ago which asked. 1. Would you like to be annexed into Lake Elsinore? 2. Would you like to be annexed into Murrieta? 3. Would you like it to stay unincorporated? Number 3 won overwhelmingly followed by a distance number 2 and last number 1. The parks in Wildomar were shut because people voted not to pay for them. A lot of people in northern Wildomar like the freedom of being able to do what the want with their land and lives and don’t want the bureaucracy of a city council. I suspect Bob Buster realized this when he changed his mind on Murrieta annexing Wildomar provided they annex all of it. Wildomar is growing rapidly and starting to look a lot more like a city. I am sure it is costing the county more than it takes in to provide police and fire services and they would love to unload it.
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Anonymous, at Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:01:00 PM
The composition of Wildomar has changed dramatically in the last five years. There have been many new tracts throughout the area in question. In addition, if you look at the County’s general plan for the area, it is being set up commercially for incorporation. However, if you take away the tax base at Clinton Keith as Murrieta tried to do, there is no hope of incorporation. This would create a “county” island that would be a drain on servicing, much like Home Gardens by Corona and that is why Buster pushed Murrieta to take all of it. I think the limits for incorporation have been hampered by the State changing the way incorporation must occur and taking away some of the monies. I think it can incorporate given enough time.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:57:00 AM
I didn't say it couldn't incorporate. I said a significant number of citizens don't want it to. It would be interesting to survey the entire community again on this issue, fully disclosing any change to their taxes before the vote. Unless a lot more and I mean a lot more commercial comes I don't see income fron sales tax alone as enough. Two shopping centers anchored by grocery stores, which generate little sale tax won't cut it. I know people who supported Wildomar incorporation now in Wildomar's battle over annexation with Murrieta because they didn't want the area to become part of any city and the higher taxes that come with it. With Murrieta gone these people will take on WIN when the time comes.
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Anonymous, at Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:20:00 AM
With the amount of new home construction going on, I think it’s only a matter of time before those who want incorporation outweigh those who don’t. If you look back to Murrieta, there was a point were the weight shifted as well.
You also have Wal-Mart making overtures for a super center at Bundy Canyon and I-15. There’s commercial room at Baxter and there’s a lot more on the books for Clinton Keith than two supermarkets. I think the 5 million tax base at Clinton Keith is a good start considering Murrieta’s budget this year is what 31 million? I don’t think Wildomar is going to have quite the problems folks think it will.
By
Anonymous, at Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:30:00 PM
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