MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.: A message from Ms. Nugent

Monday, February 14, 2005

A message from Ms. Nugent

Good morning everyone,

Two important meetings this week - the GPAC on Monday at 6 pm City Hall, and then the City Council meeting on Tuesday, 7 pm, City Hall.

Mark your calendars and make the time to attend. The GPAC should have an interesting agenda and you will see two of our candidates there as Rick Gibbs is Vice Chair and Gary Thomasian is a voting member on the committee.

Word is that the Chamber of Commerce is going to continue speaking out against the Recall at Council meetings and making efforts to derail attention from the trio to Warnie, etc. We need to be there to speak about staying focused, our issues and concerns....... and the Public Forum 3 minutes is a wonderful way to keep pounding away. I am speaking on a consent item - the Redevelopment Agency second series bond issue for over $12 million dollars! Review the agenda, make the time to come and learn what is going on currently in our city and see the process in action. One visit to a meeting and you will understand why we are so involved and so adamant that changes must occur in our Council.

Also check out the www.rescuemurrieta.com to read new comments, take the Wildomar Annexation poll, learn about the candidates Rescue Murrieta is backing for City Council. We need your help, your active participation, and appreciate your willingness to answer the calls we make on your time. Hope to see you this week at City Hall.

28 Comments:

I for one congratulate the Murrieta Chamber if they elect to speak out against the recall. From a purely business perspective, a recall does not encourage business investment in the community--particularly since one of the Council up for recall was just elected. This paints a picture of the residents of the City of Murrieta as anti-business--not a good idea in my humble opinion.

Murrieta resident since 1993

By Anonymous, at Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:33:00 PM
Well here's another perspective. You said that the recall "paints a picture of the residents as anti-business."

But what is the true picture of Murrieta that needs painting? If there is no recall, then does that mean that there is no disconnect between thousands of Murrietans and the Council? Of course not.

Wouldn't businesses be better served if the residents and the Council were cooperating? Or do businesses only care if the Council is favorable, the residents be damned?

What about the businesses in Old Town? Do you think the Chamber has been sticking up for them? My understanding is that many of them have been severely hurt if not essentially put out of business.

Maybe you're focusing on the businesses that profit from the developer mentality that has ruled this community. You know, banks, real estate, big retail, etc.

And why should Murrietans subordinate their desire for a quality of life community just because some big box store wants to see a pretty picture of the Council in charge.

Frankly, if this recall goes through and the Council begins to reflect the community values and vision, businesses will be better served.

In the long run, it's better to deal with reality than to paint a fantasy.

Edward Faunce
Rescue Murrieta Spokesman

By Anonymous, at Friday, February 18, 2005 12:25:00 PM
Mr. Faunce not everyone is going to have the same view or opinion of a fantasy or reality picture. That's the true nature of art.

In your website it is stated that 20 percent of the registered voters are in favor of this recall. That just tells me that the other 80 percent do not agree with this recall. If I were you I would take a step back and look at the big picture. It seems to me that you are too close to notice anything else around you including the beauty of the 'reality' picture. I am sure you have heard the phrase 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder' well that is 80 percent of us Murrietans.

To me it seems that 'rescue murrieta' is disconnected from reality. A generation gap if you will. The old men / women that have nothing better to do than to whine about the city. Then formed a militia in a parking lot like bored teenagers looking for chaos.

I dont see anything wrong with developing Murrieta. Bringing in retail with better places to eat and shop. I would rather shop and dine here in Murrieta than in Temecula. I dont have a fact sheet in front of me but I can almost bet that is why businesses in Old Town have lost business. Murrieta can not compete with Temecula or surrounding areas. I cant wait to see new and improved Old Town after the construction. So quit stopping the GOOD development from coming into Murrieta.

Now as far as the Candidates on your website. I dont want to see resumes for something like this. Anyone can lie on a resume. Then the age group.... Have you noticed again the generation gap??!! The Candidates on this website should have a website of thier own. It lookes bias to me.

The way I see your website and the way of thinking of this militia doesnt serve the good for the majority of Murrietans. I wish you luck in your future endevors. You dont have my vote.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, February 19, 2005 6:47:00 AM
Ms. Working Middle Aged Murrieta Mother,

You said: "In your website it is stated that 20 percent of the registered voters are in favor of this recall. That just tells me that the other 80 percent do not agree with this recall."

This is a non sequitur, the conclusion does not follow from the facts. It takes 20% of the registered voters to place a recall election on the ballot. However, it's not necessary to canvass the entire community. Once the 20% has been reached, there's no point in pursuing more recall petition signatures.

In fact, my personal experience was that very few Murrietans said that they did not favor the recall. So, if you think that the other 80% are against the recall, I believe that you are probably off by at least 60%.

You also said: "A generation gap if you will. The old men / women that have nothing better to do than to whine about the city. Then formed a militia in a parking lot like bored teenagers looking for chaos."

Really? You think that there were no middle age working mothers in the parking lot? You think that only "old folks" stood out in front of markets gathering signatures? Again, you are completely wrong. And, incidentally, as far as having nothing to do and being bored, you might find it difficult to keep up with some of the old folks -- who are still working full time jobs and volunteering their time to try to help families, like yours, who are going to be left paying for infrastructure long after the developers are gone.

You said: "I dont see anything wrong with developing Murrieta. Bringing in retail with better places to eat and shop. I would rather shop and dine here in Murrieta than in Temecula."

And neither does RM. At one of the RM meetings of the volunteers, I asked for a show of hands to see how many anti-growth people we had. There were none. When I asked what kind of development they would like to see most, they said good resturants, upscale shopping and businesses which would pay salaries sufficient to support a Murrieta life style.

The problem with Old Town is not that it is being improved. The problem is that the entire area has been torn up going on a year. The scheduling and completion of the construction is the negative for the businesses. If you had a business, would you want your ingress and access essentially destroyed for a year?

As far as the RM website putting information on the candidates, remember, we endorsed those candidates and we are simply putting information on line relating to our endorsements.

The other option is to have the developers, i.e., the Southwest Taxpayers for Responsible Government, pick up the tab for running for council. Do you feel more comfortable having out of town, and even out of the County, developers bankrolling who the candidates are for our City Council? If so, then you will probably support the three council members up for recall.

We won't count on your vote. But then don't whine when Murrieta is over 100,000 in population and still has the infrastructure, traffic, and lack of shopping that we currently have. How's that for a deal?

Edward Faunce
Rescue Murrieta Spokesman

By Anonymous, at Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:06:00 PM
hummm ~ "it's not necessary to canvass the entire community" ~ EXACTLY! RM is NOT the entire community. Please don not help me. I didnt ask for your hand. I am a grown woman with much more stamina and stability than you could ever imagine.

It seems as if you have surrounded yourself with very negative people. In Fact most of us Murrietans who live here dont have the negative outlook on the City. I have talked with other parents, neighbors, and family members and business owners who live here regarding this issue. Your mind would be blown away on how upset they are with this 'recall' and how it looks on the true community of Murrieta. I wouldnt count on many others to vote for the recall.

You have stated in your comment that ~ "At one of the RM meetings of the volunteers, I asked for a show of hands to see how many anti-growth people we had. There were none."

I call bull because your website says the opposite of what you are telling me here on this blog. If you think I am pulling that out of nowhere... look under Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow.

The reason why I came to Murrieta is not for Ranch style homes or non growth. I came here because of the growth , development and the affordable living. Growth and development require construction which leads to traffic. Expect it!

As for the candidates that RM has 'endorsed'... If you want to try and persuade me, give me something better than a resume. I still think they should have their own website stating that they have a 'special interest' group 'RM' backing them for this recall. I have already seen that you lie just like the rest. Be sure that I am speading my opinion on the impression I recieved from RM.

Please step back and look around you... "outside the box"!!

By Anonymous, at Saturday, February 19, 2005 2:44:00 PM
Wake up!!!! Thats right open your eyes take a look at the New Murrieta. Its been developed while you were asleep. See what happens when you fall asleep at the wheel. Old farts dont need to drive. Get out of the way go back to the Coloney.

This town is all about the young blood now. If you havent noticed most of us are in our late 30's early 40's with full time work and families.

IF you want to persuade me, find candidates that are more "in tune" with the average family that live here. I dont want to replace a vivacious group of men for old farts that fall asleep on the job.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:53:00 AM
I dont have a bone to pick with you Murrietianeyes. I am looking way beyond your silly little comment. By attacking me is not persuading me one bit. It is actually making me lean more towards the other side. It is obvious that you are reading my comments and getting involved in my converstation with Mr. Faunce. If my thoughts are boring to you, dont bother to comment on them.

I might be stereotyping just a bit but who doesnt. You just did with me. My rants are from the heart and how I feel about this serious situation. I am your typical Murrietan. If you were one of the candidates that RM has endorsed, I would say that you are not "in tune" with your community. A great candidate would have my interests at heart no matter how uneducated I sound or where I came from.

It is a fact that the majority of Murrietans are in the age group of 30's and 40's. Why cant RM 'endorse' a candidate that is in my age group? Someone who knows how the working family of Murrieta feels. I want growth, development ,places to eat and places to shop. Like it or not I have a voice. I am a Murrietan and I am not going anywhere for the next 20 years.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:40:00 AM
Thank you Mr. Seyarto for filling me in on RM's Agenda. I have taken a few days to learn about them and what they stand up for. I wasn't impressed. Even more so now with the calibur of people that responded to my comments. Instead of trying to persuade me they attacked.

I understand we have a great group of Senior Citizans. My comments about 'old farts' was directed more towards the candidates RM has endorsed. If they are stating that most of us Murrietans are for this recall I believe they should have endorsed someone in my age group.

Instead RM has endorsed candidates that are disconnected with the majority of the community. A HUGE generation gap. I dont want to have 'seniors' speaking for a younger generation nor do I want to see resume's posted for positions like this. Anyone can lie on a Resume! If they want to change my vote or pesuade me. RM needs to do a much better job in finding others to endorse, that are younger and actually out in our community that know what the rest of us feel. For now my opinions still stand unless they can show me otherwise.

I will not replace a vivacious group of men that know how the working families of Murrieta feel. I want growth, development ,places to eat and places to shop.

I have said it before...Like it or not I have a voice! I am a Murrietan and I am not going anywhere for the next 20 years.

By Anonymous, at Monday, February 21, 2005 8:14:00 AM
Working middle aged mother in Murrieta....I find your comments very offensive. How dare you call the seniors in Murrieta old farts. Do you know how many of them served our country so you can have freedom of speech? Do you know how many mothers and fathers used to be middle aged like you? Have you ever tried to have a conversation with them? These seniors have history and knowledge and even volunteer in Murrieta schools to share with your children. Get a clue middle aged mother!! I am middle aged and treasure them. I wish my old fart senior grandparents were still here.

By Anonymous, at Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:27:00 PM
Working Middle Aged Murrieta Mother

I think it makes more sense to have council members with the time to fully evaluate decisions before the council. People who are old enough to look carefully at the possible negative outcomes of council decisions. I am 41 years old and I work, and if you can find a young person to sit on the council, I’m all for it. Perhaps you might think of running?

Your “…vivacious group of men…” on the council I feel are making decisions with an obvious self-serving slant and are acting with arrogant disdain towards anyone with an opposing viewpoint. If this is what young politicians do, perhaps a little more elderly wisdom on the council would be a welcome change.

By J. L. Kunkle, at Friday, February 25, 2005 4:29:00 PM
Kelly Seyarto, You keep saying your sticking up for what you believe in but its not what the Murrieta citizens "believe in" for their community. It is your agenda not the citizens agenda. When the citizens tell you what they want you immediatly go into a civics lesson why your agenda is the only way.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, February 26, 2005 10:08:00 PM
First off Mr. Murphy. I would appreciate it if you call me by my right name and that is "Working Middle Aged MURRIETA Mother". Second Mr. Murphy, I am not in a English class nor do I write for a crappy newspaper. This is a blog not a spelling contest. I am not a sociologist either. I am your average Murrietan who lives here and works here. What I stated was FACT about the average age in Murrieta.

Now I am not running against anyone here I dont need to persuade anyone. I am expressing my opinions. You will here me even at the Ballot box.

I was turned off by the people of RM. I have read many many things going back and forth. I was looking forward to seeing what they had to say during the forum the other night... but NO ONE SHOWED to Support RM. What a waste of my valuable time you cause me.

Mr. Murphy you need to find a better job with less amount of stress and bull...

Those folks you are hanging out with are bad for you.

By Anonymous, at Friday, March 04, 2005 7:51:00 AM
The Murrieta Chamber of Commerce (consisting of predominatly Temecula business people including Nancy Stevenson) is primarily funded by the "trio" on the Murrieta city council.

Why would anyone who disagrees with the trios' agenda appear at this tainted and biased venue? Do Murrieta residents think that question framed by the Traffeculans will solve our city's problems?

This is just another example, in the lenghtening list of the dirty Charles Colsonesque tricks, being perpetrated by the developers and their grateful servants on the City Council. (Question - who do you think is counting on developer money in a possible run for Ray Haynes' job?)

By Anonymous, at Friday, March 04, 2005 1:17:00 PM
Working Middle Aged Murrieta Mother said...

"I am a Murrietan and I am not going anywhere for the next 20 years."

(At least not by car). I think she may find this forecast uncannily accurate without a successful recall. I have now found something that we can both agree upon.

By Anonymous, at Friday, March 04, 2005 1:34:00 PM
Of course the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce and "The Ranconian" (fka "The California) oppose the recall. Like James Carville said, it's the money, stupid!

By Anonymous, at Friday, March 04, 2005 3:11:00 PM
Ok as I am reading this I wanted to point out that this statement in quotes is way off.

"The Murrieta Chamber of Commerce (consisting of predominatly Temecula business people including Nancy Stevenson) is primarily funded by the "trio" on the Murrieta city council"

Nancy Stevenson lives and works in Murrieta. If you are going to put out information like that be sure its correct. Murrieta Chamber of Commerce is not based entirely on Temecula Businesses. Murrieta Unified School District, Southwest Healthcare System, Walmart, Home Depot, Cryoquip, City of Murrieta, Target, Sams Club, and Lowes are just to name a few big ones that are members. This information is available to anyone. So call Murrieta Chamber to get better information next time.

And the other question was "why would anyone go to a tainted and biased venue?"

To make a statement and validate your points, show how and why the forum is tainted, to get out there and make waves if you really have waves to make or just to blow your own horn. I was there the night of the forum. The questions asked did not seem biased to me. That was a bad political move for RM.

By Anonymous, at Friday, March 04, 2005 6:35:00 PM
I am curious how do you think that the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce is running a scam??? How is it that promoting local business, promoting local activities, promoting our wonderful community and encouraging strong and wise economic growth is a scam. Maybe it is... There is a vast conspiracy to increase the quality of life, business and value of our community.

Is it because you have bad blood and unsaid issues that need to be overcome???

For those of us who are undecided and interested in this recall, It makes more sense for the candidates to be at every debate/forum and to be forth coming in all thier claims beliefs and ideas.

It shouldnt matter who puts it on or how it is presented. What matters is getting out there and being vocal on who can do a better job for the seat.

Personally I want to hear what each candidate has to say. To be knowlegable about what each and every candidate is offering my city.

There should not be a debate about the debate. The forum on the 2nd was very open and allowed the candidates to confront each other and ask questions of each other. I like that. No question was covered up or swept under the rug and claims were asked to be backed up. Maybe your claims cant be backed up by anything other than slander and finger pointing. Show us some proof... Show us something other than allegations... I have read "YOUR" publication and all I see in it is a very biased one sided rant,but I dont see any proof of any allegations.

If something illegal has been done, if a conflict of interest has been breeched... Show us where. Dont just complain because all I see you and your followers doing is standing in the way of progress. Murrieta is not some little far off burg anymore. It has grown into a very sophisticated and desireable community.

If you want an out of way backwoods community, might I suggest Wildomar or Hemet. There are probably many people of your interest's and value's more than happy to accept you and yours.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, March 05, 2005 9:16:00 AM
Working middle aged father said:

And the other question was "why would anyone go to a tainted and biased venue?"

Anonymous replied:

"To make a statement and validate your points, show how and why the forum is tainted, to get out there and make waves if you really have waves to make or just to blow your own horn. I was there the night of the forum. The questions asked did not seem biased to me."

-----------------------------------

I wouldnt expect an ardent anti- recallist to find the Southwest County Developers (SCD).. er.. a.. I mean the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce, (now deserving of the title -- Murrieta Chamber of Gridlock- (MCG)), questions unbiased or leading.

These 2 groups have very little credibility.

1. The "SCD" name itself is a farse unless the Orange County Developers who contribute are located in south-west Orange County.

2. The MCG's questions sounded like a Larry King interview of Michael Jackson. Real hard hitting stuff.

3. If the "MCG" can be vocally against the recall, and yet be unbiased, perhaps they can get their friends at the "SCD" to reveal the "neutral" survey questions posed to Murrietans by the Pro-Marketing people.

On another subject, I loved the Californian's story today on the new park's opening in October. What's next, a city council newspaper photo of the voting bloc doing a ribbon-cutting exercise on an overpasses that won't be completed until 2011?

I have no personal financial gain to achieve in supporting this recall. All I want is maybe to get a little more time with my family after a long, and getting much longer commute. Also, as expressed my many others, It would be advantageous, I believe, to have a more balanced growth pattern. This will never happen with the current bunch on the council.

Even Jeff Stone after winning the Count Supv. job, with heavy developer support, said something to the effect of "more roads before more roofs."

If indeed that's what he said, I more than agree.

By Anonymous, at Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:59:00 PM
Working Middle Aged Father and Murrietaneyes were either one of you at the forum? It seems as if you dont want to have a open mind. HATRED never works plus it causes stress and health issues.

EVERY candidate including the one holding the seat should at least show up to give the average citizan the best information they can. So when at the polls we can make the best decision for our city. As a citizan of Murrieta not only will be present at each and every one of the forums/debates that ANYONE puts on, I will also be reading all newspapers and watching the forums on TV.

The forum on March 2nd was informative for me. They even asked a few questions that I have heard before from Mrs. Knight.

So is it true that Murrieta is 80%-90% built out? If so that means there is not much more developers can do except bring in big businesses. Which the city really needs.

In one more thought, Bashing the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce in the hatred game looks bad on the person doing so. The Murrieta Chamber of Commerce has been great to my family business. It is because of them I made up my mind to move here.

My understanding is that the Knights had something go down with the Chamber some years ago regarding the Murrieta Insider. Took the Chamber/Insider to court and lost. I also believe that Mr. Knight used to work for the Chamber and was let go. These are the same people on this blog and are associated with rescue murrieta. They also own the Bugle.

Every story has 2 sides. If my understanding is not correct or I am missing something fill me in.

By Anonymous, at Sunday, March 06, 2005 1:06:00 PM
It seems RM has now set their sights on the Chamber to start a misinformation campaign about. Doesn't anyone question Ed Faunce? Is there no accountability in either the community or RM? A cursory glance at the Chamber website would be all it would take to put the lie to the statements made by Faunce that the Chamber is predominantly Temecula members and Directors. Of the existing Directors featured on the site at least 9 either have a business or residence in Murrieta or both - and those are just the ones I know.

Enochs and others have also repeatedly been corrected as to the sources of funding for the Chamber and it is not primarily the City. The City has a contract for services with the Chamber that they fund just like any other city contract. Whatever credibility RM may have is damaged by repeated misstatements that are easy for anyone to verify if they are truly interested in the facts.

By Anonymous, at Monday, March 07, 2005 1:12:00 PM
Seeking knowledge said:

"Bashing the Murrieta Chamber of Commerce in the hatred game looks bad on the person doing so. The Murrieta Chamber of Commerce has been great to my family business. It is because of them I made up my mind to move here."

I think the the "Chamber" has been good to you and many others. I feel that we may just have to politely agree to disagree on this one. The Chamber chose to oppose any membership changes at the city council. And in so doing, knowingly put themselves in the line of fire, so to speak

Remember I'm a commuter, like many here, not a local business owner.

Simple facts:

A) Jack has been leading the voting bloc for 12 years. As you point out, most of the city has been built under his watch and his vision.

B) For 12 years at our local ballot box, the bloc has won every time. Democracy in action? Right?

C) Well....... Most voters reject the bloc in every election. Unfortunately, as we all know, too many non-bloc candidates run...diluting the non bloc vote... and putting Jack back in office everytime. It, frankly, feels like losing the Presidential race in the Electoral College every year, while carrying almost 60% of the popular vote.

D)Even if you choose to disagree with A, B, and C; one thing is true, it been Jack's agenda for 12 years.

E) Can the non-bloc have just a little input on what remains to be built? We've been shut out of the process since 1992.

I've been here since '89. Back then it was Moreno Valley that was booming (population now 155,00), and Temecula had just won the battle to keep Temecula, not Rancho California, as its name.

That was a very long time ago it seems.

I think a change in this city's vision and leadership is long overdue.

But, change or no change, .......put away your hatred fears .......we'll still be neighbors, and I'll wish only good fortune for you and your business.

By Anonymous, at Monday, March 07, 2005 8:45:00 PM
Mr./s Anonymous:

You said:

“It seems RM has now set their sights on the Chamber to start a misinformation campaign about. Doesn't anyone question Ed Faunce? . . . A cursory glance at the Chamber website would be all it would take to put the lie to the statements made by Faunce that the Chamber is predominantly Temecula members and Directors. Of the existing Directors featured on the site at least 9 either have a business or residence in Murrieta or both - and those are just the ones I know.”

Info from their web site: Murrieta Chamber Board of Directors:

Chamber Officers:
Chairman Tim Kuzelka - Temecula attorney
Chairman elect Tim Freeze - Mission Oaks Bank, Temecula
Vice Chair OB Johnson -Westmar Commercial, Temecula
Treasurer Ron Holiday - LPL Financial, Temecula
Secretary Nancy Stephenson - NLS Insurance (I couldn't locate city)
Immediate past chair Gene Wunderlich - Coldwell Banker, Wildomar

Chamber Directors:
Vickie Ashmore - Wells Fargo, Murrieta
Alex Braicovich - Waste Management, Riverside County
Scott Crane - Southwest Health Care - Murrieta and Wildomar
Chet Francisco - MVUSD
Lori Moss - Murrieta City Manager
Shane Lesovsky - Temecula Valley Communication, Temecula
Jerry Regier - Cutting Edge Marketing, Temecula
Rick Shoenfield - Kia of Temecula (formerly Kia of Murrieta)
Roger Ziemer - Southern Calif. Gas Co.

The charge was that the Chamber has a lot of Temecula businesses and people who actually live in Temecula running the organization.

If those associated with Governmental agencies are removed (Francisco and Moss) it seems that Murrieta residents and Murrieta businesses have very little to do with running the Murrieta City Chamber.

You also said:

“Enochs and others have also repeatedly been corrected as to the sources of funding for the Chamber and it is not primarily the City. The City has a contract for services with the Chamber that they fund just like any other city contract.”

RM only said that the Chamber gets $60K a year from the City. There was never any statement made claiming that the Chamber gets its funds primarily from the City. But if $60K is a pittance to the Chamber, perhaps the City could fund RM with an equivalent amount? After all, RM has no Temecula residents or businesses involved – only Murrieta residents.

But your statement that the City has a contract with the Chamber for services actually supports RM’s point. The Chamber is not a disinterested party in the Recall. It has a special interest in keeping the status quo and keeping its contract. Thank you for pointing out the existence of a contract.

Finally, you said:

“Whatever credibility RM may have is damaged by repeated misstatements that are easy for anyone to verify if they are truly interested in the facts.”

Well we won’t stop you if you want to eat your words. Let us know what condiments you’d like.

Edward Faunce
Rescue Murrieta Spokesman

By Anonymous, at Monday, March 07, 2005 10:06:00 PM
Oh Eddie - you get so close sometimes it almost seems there's hope but then you sink back into attack mode and display the aggressive lack of perspective that has garnered you so much media attention.

Kuzelka - Murrieta Resident
Freese - Murrieta Branch
Johnson - Murrieta resident
Holiday - Murrieta resident & business
Stephenson - Valley wide business
Wunderlich - Murrieta resident & business
Braicovicj - resident & part business

This ain't so tough is it Ed?

You said (about 5 rants up) that the Chamber gets a grant - again untrue. I was just pointing out the inaccuracy of that statement. The city has a contract with the chamber - the contract is for services performed not just a gimmee as you and Enochs intimate. The current value of those services has been estimated as costing up to 150,000 if the city had to replace those services either in-house or through other contracts.

Yes the Chamber is a special interest. The Chamber is a national business advacacy group active in legislation at all levels - not just city, that benefit local business owners. Committed to attracting quality jobs to our region and helping the ones in business stay in business. The majority of the Chamber's membership (again verifiable to anyone who cares to seek info) is made up of the many home base and small businesses in the region - but the majority of their financial support does indeed come from the larger businesses in the region which, at this time, are located in Temecula. Of course the Chamber is not a disinterested party to the recall - nobody in this town should be a disinterested party. The problem is - anybody who's truly interested is going to get the facts and that's where your arguments are substantially lacking. The Chamber only has an interest in keeping the status quo if the status quo is good for our growing business segment - which will support this city long after you've gone on to create havoc in your next target domicile, and if the staus quo supports the quality lifestyle YOU moved here to exploit in 1997.

Eat my words? Ed, I'll bring the salsa so you can chow down on the pile of bullshit you've been foisting on the public unchallenged for months now.

By the way - thanks for the opportunity to post here but I'm done. You can't educate these people and you can't even engage in rational dialogue. I shoulda listened to Mom. She always told me not to try to teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of my time and it just pisses off the pig. I'll go listen to the Chamber sponsored debates and hope some of your candidates have more sense than you.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 10:25:00 AM
"the pile of bullshit you've been foisting on the public unchallenged for months now." - sounds like rational dialog to me.

By J. L. Kunkle, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:38:00 PM
"the pile of bullshit you've been foisting on the public unchallenged for months now." - sounds like rational dialog to me.

By J. L. Kunkle, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:38:00 PM
Had to throw ya a bone Joe. I knew ya couldn't respond adequately to any of the rational dialog so I had to float a sinker on your level. Even got ya stuttering with two responses. If you guys weren't so serious about this, you'd be some funny dudes.
Tanks for the yuks.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:17:00 PM
LMAO

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:39:00 PM
To Anonymous who said

"I find your comments very offensive. How dare you call the seniors in Murrieta old farts. Do you know how many of them served our country so you can have freedom of speech?"

Well this is a little off topic. I was in the Marines for 8 years. Commuted from Murrieta to Camp Pendleton. I have fought for your right for freedom of speech.

I dont care what you say or even if it's offensive. You have that right to speak out on what ever or how ever you want.

I cant stand Howard Stern or KKK but I will die for thier right to freedom of speech.

That just how that works. Those who have served will say the same thing.

So I dare and you should too.

By Anonymous, at Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:39:00 PM

MURRIETA OPEN FORUM - Get it said, get it read, communications for the community.

Monday, February 14, 2005

A message from Ms. Nugent

28 Comments:

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